November 2017: Turtles All the Way Down

[Rach , Moderator]

Discussion starts now!

Questions:

1. How does this in Greene's world if you have read him before?

2. What about the title? The title always says a lot about the work.

3. Discuss the way Greene discusses mental illness in this novel.

4. Did you like Aza? Daisy? Davis?

(More questions coming as I haven't read it yet and it is super new!)

[Tanya]

Just finished it! Loved it! Is this a spoiler-free area? I wouldn't want to spoil anything for anyone

[Jennifer]

I also just finished this book and loved it!! I have never read anything by Greene before so I can't compare writing.

As someone who suffers from anxiety, I felt that the author describes Aza's thought spirals perfectly. I don't want to spoil it either so I won't get into too much detail. I loved loved loved Davis and was meh about Daisy.

[Rach , Moderator]

If you want to do spoilers its super easy to write about them:


Use < spoiler > ... < / spoiler > *remove the spaces and write your text in the ...*


And it will look like this

Hey so this book (view spoiler)[LOOKS AMAZING AND I CANT WAIT TO START IT YAAAAAAAS (hide spoiler)]



:)

[Tanya]

Ah perfect, thanks!
1. I have read all of his other books and I have to say he is my absolute favourite Author! And I also love his YouTube Channels. I feel you could definetly tell you were reading a John Green book, which was so nice after the 6 year wait 😊

2. I am always curious to see how the title fits into the story, sometimes it will be an actual quote in the book and sometimes its not. In this case, I must admit I kept wandering, where ARE these turtles?? But in the end when he does explain it its very interesting. I think the thought spiral concept is so well written and probably the best way to descrobe what Aza is going through at that moment.

3. I think it is great that John has written about mental illness so candidly and not really romanticized it. Its ugly and not nice and its will always be full of ups and downs. I never thought about how little I knew about OCD, apart feom what I had briefly seen on tv shows. There is just so much more to it and I'm glad he's shined a light on it.

4. (view spoiler)[I enjoyed Aza, I think she could have easily come across as "moany" and "why me" type, but she wasn't at all for me. She's just a girl trying her best. I thought it was really good of her about being honest about her OCD to the people closest to her, i think it showed healthy behaviour. I did like Daisy and the friendship with Aza (i feel like this is a recurring element in John's books). Obviously there were ugly things said but I think she is also tryong to figure out how to be with someone who is going through something that she cannot see or understand and she automatically kept her thoughts to herself... and her fan fiction. I think it was just her way of coping. I liked Davis and i felt so sorry for him throughout the book. I think he was great and patient with Aza whilst also being a big brother and the parent of the house. (hide spoiler)]

What did you think of Pickett? Did you think it would end the way it did?

[Kailey]

Just finished this book! Overall, I liked it, but did not love it. I rated it a 3.5/5.

1. How does this in Greene's world if you have read him before?
I have only ever read The Fault in Our Stars by John Green, but I absolutely loved that book. I think his writing is pretty consistent in this book in the sense that the characters are very intelligent and metaphorical. They all have something specific and special about them that makes them unique and quirky (in a good way). I think that his character development is one of my favorite things about this book and TFIOS.

2. What about the title? The title always says a lot about the work.
I think this title was perfect. As Tanya noted above ^^, I also went through the entire novel confused about when the turtles were going to show up. When it eventually got to the main point (view spoiler)[of the ultimate joke about the creation of Earth, it made a lot of sense. Turtles all the way down, to me, means there is no means to an end. It just goes on, and on, and on, and on. It's kind of like an endless thought spiral (hint, hint, wink, wink) (hide spoiler)].

3. Discuss the way Greene discusses mental illness in this novel.
I think the way that he is able to tackle this subject is incredible. I believe we all are a little "OCD" about specific things; for example, I cannot have a sink full of dirty dishes or I go insane, but then I can leave a pile of dirty clothes on the floor of my room and be completely fine. But reading this book made me realize that my quirky little pet peeves cannot be compared to a mental illness or OCD, they're just a part of me. I think Aza puts an understanding and meaning behind this illness with the good, bad, and ugly. I have never suffered through any sort of mental illness, but my mother has, and I can imagine that the "thought-spirals" that Aza continues to experience are similar to the way my mother rationalizes to certain actions. Mental illness is serious and all too common, so I'm happy then Green is able to talk about this matter in a serious yet compassionate way.

4. Did you like Aza? Daisy? Davis?
So, I loved Aza. I thought she was extremely relatable for a wide variety of people. Obviously, anyone who has experienced mental illness, but also she is relatable to anyone who has ever had to be a teenager. She talks about (view spoiler)[how disgusted with her body she is, and the sweat that she can't escape, and the kissing (which she liked but was also terrified of). I think I experienced all of these issues growing up, and I related to her in so many different ways besides the OCD (hide spoiler)].

Daisy was also one of my favorites. I think I related to her a lot too because of the absolute passion she has for Star Wars (though I don't think I love it enough to read/write a fan fic about a Wookie falling in love). But regardless, I think she keeps Aza sane in a way. She is basically the opposite of Aza, but she helps her discover how important she is and her self-worth. She is confident, while Aza is not, and I think she makes Aza feel confident in herself throughout the novel.

Now don't hate me, but I didn't particularly love Davis. I think he was so sweet and caring and I truly felt awful for the way he had to grow up, but I thought his "relationship" with Aza was more of a friendship. I think I would've liked this story better if Davis was just seen as an old friend with a shoulder to lean on, instead of an awkward guy with a sad family history that was trying to start a realationship. I truly felt for him though, and I'm happy that him and Aza had each other to lean on and talk to.

I think this novel was well worth the read, even though it wasn't my personal favorite. If anyone agrees/disagrees with my thoughts and comments please don't hesitate to let me know! :)

[Summer]

I was quite disappointed with this one. I know that Greene tries to be mindful of using the Manic Pixie Dream Girl/Boy archetypes, but this one was just too much of a stretch for me. (view spoiler)[Of course our struggling heroine will just happen to have a whirlwind romance with the billionaire boy next door! Of course they'll save each other, for at least a short time, from reality! (hide spoiler)]

What I did appreciate, though, was the way Daisy (view spoiler)[was able to call Aza out for being a bad friend. Boundary setting and reciprocity are important in relationships and having a mental illness doesn't excuse people from that basic obligation. Both Daisy and Aza handled that conversation well and it was nice to see that moment in print. (hide spoiler)]

The end was a bit odd to me, though. (view spoiler)[If we're jumping ahead into the future, I think that's a frame that should've been set earlier on. As it was, it felt jarring. (hide spoiler)]

I like John Greene, but I think I'll start waiting for reviews to amass before jumping into another of his novels.