Last Argument of Kings [Dec 27, 2017]

[Laura]

Regarding Logen, I didn't mean to say that he hid his past or didn't admit his issues. He does and that's one of the things I love most about him. What I was trying to say is that (view spoiler)[ I had sort of formed a mental picture of him in which Logen himself is a good man and The Bloody Nine carries all the burden of his past mistakes. I was sort of thinking that the Bloody Nine nickname came only from the killing spree and madness caused by that alternate personality but in this chapter it was pretty much laid out that Logen the man wasn't such a good-doer either. Not that he ever said he was one. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Iain wrote: "Chapter 16: Kingmaker -- I was laughing right along with Ferro.."

I actually saw that coming so it didn't come as a surprise but your question regarding Bayaz's knowledge is a good one. :D

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Laura wrote: "Iain wrote: "Chapter 16: Kingmaker -- I was laughing right along with Ferro.."

I actually saw that coming so it didn't come as a surprise but your question regarding Bayaz's knowledge is a good on..."

(view spoiler)[ Yea, I kinda saw it coming, as well... once all the princes were dead and Bayaz being Bayaz... but I still saw the humor Ferro saw... and the consternation of Glokta...

Jezal is a much more capable king than the Jezal of The Blade Itself, bya far... (hide spoiler)]

[Siobhan]

Chapter 16. I didn't see it coming until literally the start of that chapter, then it just hit me. Mostly because of what West said in the previous one. And I was laughing with Ferro too! 😂

I love chapters from multiple perspectives like that, one of my favourites.

(view spoiler)[ I love new changed man Jezal, particularly how much he considers Logen's advice when he's thinking to himself. But I can see it slipping back along with his resolve to make an honest woman of Ardee!

I honestly reckon he'll make as good a king as the next guy. He won't actually have to decide anything... But great question about Bayaz. He knows far too much!

I can't wait until West finds out 😂 😂 (hide spoiler)]

[Siobhan]

Laura wrote: "Regarding Logen, I didn't mean to say that he hid his past or didn't admit his issues. He does and that's one of the things I love most about him. What I was trying to say is that [spoilers removed]"

I get you Laura. There was a differentiation made between the two personas. And now they are back to being one I guess.

[Laura]

Iain wrote: "Laura wrote: "Iain wrote: "Chapter 16: Kingmaker -- I was laughing right along with Ferro.."

I actually saw that coming so it didn't come as a surprise but your question regarding Bayaz's knowledg..."

I totally agree with that.

[Laura]

Siobhan wrote: "Chapter 16. I didn't see it coming until literally the start of that chapter, then it just hit me. Mostly because of what West said in the previous one. And I was laughing with Ferro too! 😂

I love..."

I'm waiting for your reaction at chapter 18. :D

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

West had the best reaction there... I'm on chapter 25 now: (view spoiler)[ Glokta came so close to learning something at the University... he needs a bit more imagination to put 2 & 2 together... the other Inquisitors barely have anything to stand on, sending Glokta away from one of the best sources of historical Bayaz info...

Glokta/Ardee really were made for each other... heckling the royal wedding in private... I'm curious to see if the Queen gets along better with Jezal than Ladisla... altho their public face is already 10x better.. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

On Chapter 41 now: Tomorrow's Hero: this book is just one revelation after another... it's hard to spend too much time thinking about each one...

(view spoiler)[Logen caused Bethod's domination, not the other way around... Bayaz was manipulating Logen's life all the way back then...Quai was really the Maker's Daughter (guess I was wrong about why he was acting different in book 2)... Ferro found the Seed...

Bayaz keeps looking worse and worse by the page... Logen, too, killing one of his friends in one of his rages... then finding out he killed that moon man's son (I kept expecting to find out he's another agent of Bayaz manipulating the board... still might be)...

I guess expecting a happy marriage for Jezal/Terez was being ignorant of the general tone of these books, lol... Jezal seems all over the place at the moment... one moment I feel bad for him sleeping on the couch... the next he's hitting the maid or going into a slavering rage at the Closed Council / Bayaz...

And Glokta... finally having to deal with all his conflicting masters/investigations it seems... hard to believe the trilogy is almost over, but it's nice to be getting all these answers... (hide spoiler)]

Sidenote: I dunno if this audiobook is slow, or I'm just getting used to the speedups, but I increased my speed from 1.5x to 2x because I could hardly tell 1.5x was an increased speed any more... I tried going back to 1x for a minute, and it seemed comically slow, like when a TV show slows down time or something...

[Siobhan]

Wow you're flying Iain! I'm still only 25% which is actually good going for me. Will hopefully get through at least another 10% today!

[Diana Stormblessed]

Wow Iain, slow down! You guys are all way ahead of me now. I didn't have a chance to read at all yesterday and I'm still on Fortunes of War. Today is probably going to be slow at work and maybe I'll be able to sneak in a chapter or two reading since I don't have this one on audiobook.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Sorry guys... it's been really good reading... you're just lucky I haven't gotten any listening done since I got home from work, yet... Chapter 41 is 70% already...

[Siobhan]

Haha, I'm glad it's good reading! I'm loving it so far.

[Siobhan]

Laura wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Chapter 16. I didn't see it coming until literally the start of that chapter, then it just hit me. Mostly because of what West said in the previous one. And I was laughing with Ferr..."

Chapter 18 - (view spoiler)[Sooooo.. Bayaz is king then? Haha XD
Poor Jezal has got zero control over this situation. I love that he has named West the new Lord Marshall, just so he will have a mate at the table 😂 actually done him a big favour for his career though! It might be a bit late to help out Dogman etc, as they may already be dead by the time Furious gets to move the army! :/ oh dear.
And I suppose he's definitely not marrying Ardee now then! (hide spoiler)]

[Diana Stormblessed]

I'm finally there with everyone else. 25% in. (view spoiler)[ As soon as he said royal bastard I knew it was coming. It explained why Bayaz helped him cheat to win the contest, why he brought the useless man on his quest, why they staged the whole revolution surrendering thing. Questions I had since book 1 have been answered. And he's probably the easiest puppet in the world to lead around. (hide spoiler)]

[Diana Stormblessed]

Laura wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Well I read up to Bad Debts last night, (can't remember what the chapter I just read was called and can't be bothered to flick back on the kindle) but it's about 13%. [spoilers remo..."

I agree. That chapter kind of let me down. I was expecting something more epic.

[Siobhan]

Iain wrote: "West had the best reaction there... I'm on chapter 25 now: ..."

I liked (view spoiler)[Ferro and Glokta asking each other questions. It was so straightforward, no bullshit.

Is it just me, or has there been a chapter called Questions in every book? :)

I'm a bit bored with Logen's story at this point, sieges get that way I suppose. Will be good when the union finally show up.

I loved what West did with those generals, playing them off against each other. Smart man. Hope it works for him! (hide spoiler)]

[Siobhan]

Just read chapter 27 - the Seventh Day. Wow... (view spoiler)[that was probably the most brutal Bloody Nine outing yet! :/ that poor little boy. Poor Thunderhead! :( f*cking hell! Logen is completely cuckoo bananas. That's just sunk in. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Siobhan wrote: "Iain wrote: "West had the best reaction there... I'm on chapter 25 now: ..."

I agree... very Ferro... and I looked it up... more than that, there are 2 chapters called questions in every book... one in each part... all the books are split into 2 parts...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Siobhan wrote: "Just read chapter 27 - the Seventh Day. Wow... [spoilers removed]"

Yea... that chapter hit me pretty hard, too... some of Logen's biggest revelations are coming soon, I think... unless there are more I don't know about, yet...

[Laura]

Siobhan wrote: "Just read chapter 27 - the Seventh Day. Wow... [spoilers removed]"

I started to realise that when I posted my previous comment and as Iain said there is more to come. :(

[Laura]

Iain wrote: "On Chapter 41 now: Tomorrow's Hero: this book is just one revelation after another... it's hard to spend too much time thinking about each one...

..."

I so didn't see that coming about (view spoiler)[the maker's daughter. I knew there is something wrong with Quai but didn't really suspect that. And Bayaz killed her! I'm starting to suspect he may have killed Juvens also and blamed it on Kanedius. But what is his purpose then? He becomes more and more creepy by the day.

And Logen! Shit! What he did knowingly in the past is horrifying. Bethod wasn't really the worst. Logen put him where he was!?
Finding that one out was worse than seeing Logen kill Tul or the little boy. He's trying to change now so I still like him, but it's so much bad and bloody stuff...

And Ferro - do you think the spirit may have given her simply the means to find the Seed? She seemed to hear it calling and now she is sort of connected to it. I wonder how Bayaz wants to play her.

Jezal - same as you - I don't know whether to feel sorry for him for being kicked in the balls by the wife or be glad for him as he is standing up a bit to Bayaz or give him a nice kick myself for his temper tantrums. That lady in waiting deserved the backhand for calling a king a bastard to his face. I don't blame him for doing that at least. I doubt those females would have backed down otherwise. But at other times ...
Somehow I have a feeling he won't be so easy to control as Bayaz thinks. His conscience seems to be coming out screaming. That may be the reason for his temper tantrums also. He isn't really such a bad person and I think he may still surprise us.

I hated what Glokta did to the Navigator. That poor fellow was harmless. Guess Abercrombie makes us see the dark in everyone here.

And don't even let me start on Ardee. At one time she said she didn't even love Jezal and was somehow expecting herself to be the one to make a joke out of him. Kind of makes it a bit hard to feel sorry for her this way. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Diana Stormblessed wrote: "Laura wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Well I read up to Bad Debts last night, (can't remember what the chapter I

I agree. That chapter kind of let me down. I was expecting something more epic.

I'm glad I'm not the odd one out. :)

[Laura]

I'm at Chapter 44 right now - The Day of Judgement - and I wonder how Glokta will get out of that pickle. As much between hammer and anvil as it gets if you ask me.
(view spoiler)[The part with Severard's torture was horrible. All those finger bits ending up even in Ardee's hair... yuck! And Ardee is with Glokta now. I wonder if they'll eventually end up together. They both seem to be their own kind of crazy.

I loved the interaction between Ferro and Jezal. "Your fucking Majesty" seems to be refreshing!

Ferro herself intrigues me. She seems very content to work with Bayaz for now but I have a very strong feeling she'll do what she feels like when the time comes.

I wonder if Bayaz is only trying to remedy a mistake he made somehow centuries ago or he is power hungry and wants all for himself. I'm beginning to suspect that everything is somehow Bayaz's fault. That he did something in the past and allowed all those eaters and demons to come out. But then my theories are most often wrong! :) (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

@Laura: re 41: (view spoiler)[ I agree... I think Abercrombie wants us to see the bad in everyone... Ferro and Jezal are probably the best main characters at the moment... more is coming for Glokta and Bayaz...

I think Jezal will be a good king... striving for the ideals of those great kings of old rather than the realities Bayaz reveals...

The navigator was annoying, but didn't deserve the hammer toe... (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Re: 44: (view spoiler)[ Yea... the Severard stuff was harsh... I'm starting to think this world would be better off without Bayaz and his ilk of manipulators in it... hopefully they all get removed eventually... (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Iain wrote: "@Laura: re 41: ...

..."

My thoughts exactly. Especially regarding Jezal. (view spoiler)[The way he feels guilty now for the poor people and the way he feels like crying when he sees how many have died because of his decision not to surrender, the way he wants to try and save everyone - all combined with a lot of stuff he remembers from Logen (straightforwardness and honesty) as well as his own admission of the fact that he is an ignorant fool - This is how I see him slowly turning into a great King. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Iain wrote: "Re: 44: [spoilers removed]"

Yeah. Fingers crossed for that from me also.

I have some free time today so I'll go on reading. I'll probably finish this by evening.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I'm on chapter 55 now, Behind the Throne, and its starting to seem like (view spoiler)[ the only winner here is Bayaz, and maybe Glokta since he's used to being controlled...

Logen is unhappy with his position of leadership and has lost Ferro to the demonic voices... was really happy to see him actually vent at Bayaz here...

Speaking of Bayaz, does he believe this bullshit he's shoveling?... He pretty much did everything he's accused of and more... has his own Eater minion... it just goes on and on...

Jezal's good intentions are being curbed by Bayaz/Glokta...

West is dying of the Seed illness... losing Jezal his one ally...

At least Glokta got Ardee, altho I thought he had a knife in his pocket for a second there... (hide spoiler)]

[Anni]

Wow, I can't wait to start this and read all your spoilers :)

[Siobhan]

Laura wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Just read chapter 27 - the Seventh Day. Wow... [spoilers removed]"

I started to realise that when I posted my previous comment and as Iain said there is more to come. :("

Laura you were definitely ahead of the game on that one. (view spoiler)[Do you still love him? Or is it too much? Because I have loved Logen so much and I don't want to hate him :( (hide spoiler)]

[Siobhan]

Iain wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Iain wrote: "West had the best reaction there... I'm on chapter 25 now: ..."

I agree... very Ferro... and I looked it up... more than that, there are 2 chapters called questions in..."

I thought it was a familiar chapter name! Haha. Could have just looked at the lists though couldn't I :p
Every time I see it, I expect Glokta to be torturing someone xD it's like, ohh here we go!

[Siobhan]

Anni wrote: "Wow, I can't wait to start this and read all your spoilers :)"

I can't wait for you to start! I fully expect to be still reading by the first as I'm going to be busy next few days. I don't even care that I wont get points for it, I had to read it! XD

[Laura]

Siobhan wrote: "Laura wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Just read chapter 27 - the Seventh Day. Wow... [spoilers removed]"


Aye! (view spoiler)[ I love him still! Even after knowing all that he has done. He is still my favourite. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Iain wrote: "I'm on chapter 55 now, Behind the Throne, and its starting to seem like "

My thoughts exactly. Right now, I really hate (view spoiler)[Bayaz. Would give him the treatment he gave Jezal. See how he likes it.

I actually didn't realise the sickness was from the Seed until after Logen mentioned it. I had forgotten that detail.

I feel sorry for Logen now. He was hoping to get Ferro back and I think he would have thrown everything aside and gone with her this time. I still hope they will get together later on even though there are only a few chapters left.

I honestly thought Glokta would kill Ardee. I really didn't see the ring coming. :D But after the scene and the way Ardee kissed him I wonder if she actually ended up falling for him (just a little bit). (hide spoiler)]

[Siobhan]

Laura wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Laura wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Just read chapter 27 - the Seventh Day. Wow... [spoilers removed]"


Aye! [spoilers removed]"

Ahh that's good to hear! Thanks Laura 😊

[Siobhan]

Just read chapter 33, Authority. I'm so glad (view spoiler)[ Jezal finally stood up for himself with his bitch of a queen!! I don't know who that maid thought she was talking to him like that! Haha. He's been too nice, no time left for that. He's being brave deciding to stay in the city, he's definitely still a better person than he was.

I'm a bit scared for Logen duelling the Feared! But if anyone can do it... (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Siobhan wrote: "Laura wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Just read chapter 27 - the Seventh Day. Wow... [spoilers removed]"

I started to realise that when I posted my previous comment and as Iain said there is more to come...."

I finished a few hours ago...

I feel like Abercrombie was pushing us to dislike Logen by the end of the book... and he mostly succeeded, I think...

I can't say I was very satisfied by the ending... (view spoiler)[ Almost everybody I liked at the start of the trilogy was shown to be pretty bad, and those I still liked or thought got better (Jezal, Ferro, West) weren't left in very good situations... Glokta was probably the most consistent, and even he did some pretty hard to ignore things this time around... because he was doing things to characters we'd come to know...

I thought the surviving members of Logen's old crew had the right idea trying to kill him off and make the North better... he was preparing for more war there at the end... altho I'm glad Shivers broke the cycle and didn't participate...

If we're going to see Bayaz taken out, I think it will be in the new trilogy... he won't be easy to defeat... he was de-aging there at the end after using The Seed...

From what I read of the blurb and the wiki, the next book focuses on Grand Duke Orso, Carlot dan Eider, Vitari, Cosca, and Shivers... and a bunch of new characters... some of this was set in motion towards the end of the book... (hide spoiler)]

I'm probably going to rate this one 4 stars... great book, just a bit unsatisfying...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Laura wrote: "Iain wrote: "I'm on chapter 55 now, Behind the Throne, and its starting to seem like "

My thoughts exactly. Right now, ..."

From the sounds of things, she always (view spoiler)[loved him... or at least had a crush on him... since seeing him as a child when he was friends with West and they were both duelers... it just matured... and both became similarly cynical... so it worked out for them in the end... (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

I finished it also and I agree with all of Iain's points. What he said goes for me too.

Regarding the end (view spoiler)[I was like "What?! That's it!!!" (hide spoiler)]

I loved (view spoiler)[the way the relationship between Ardee and Glokta developed. The way she took care of him that morning was absolutely touching.

I loved some of the fight scenes. Like the one with the twins in the mirror room. It was quite "cinematic". (hide spoiler)]

I hated (view spoiler)[the end: the way Logen seemed to be going from bad to worse over and over again and the way it was all left hanging. Especially if the next book doesn't pick up from where this one left. (hide spoiler)]

It gets only 4 stars from me also.

[Laura]

Siobhan wrote: "Just read chapter 33, Authority. ..."

I liked that too. :D

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Laura wrote: "I finished it also and I agree with all of Iain's points. What he said goes for me too.

Regarding the end [spoilers removed]

I loved [more spoilers]..."

The ending: (view spoiler)[ I think Abercrombie just liked the parallel back to the Prologue of Blade Itself where Logen goes over the edge of the cliff fighting Flatheads... (hide spoiler)]

I checked the wiki on Logen: (view spoiler)[We don't get to find out what happens with him until Red Country (#6)... And apparently, Sharp Ends (#7) is an anthology of short stories, including one about Logen back in his Bethod days... (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Iain wrote: "Laura wrote: "I finished it also and I agree with all of Iain's points. What he said goes for me too.

The ending: (view spoiler)

I checked the wiki on Logen: (view spoiler) i>

with the end - I had forgotten about that. It is fitting now that you mention it. (view spoiler)[But it still sucks! (hide spoiler)]

And (view spoiler)[Oh man! We have to wait till book 6 to see how he got out of that river!!! (*sulking*) (hide spoiler)]

[Siobhan]

Laura wrote: "Iain wrote: "On Chapter 41 now: Tomorrow's Hero: this book is just one revelation after another... it's hard to spend too much time thinking about each one....."

Iain wrote: "On Chapter 41 now: Tomorrow's Hero: this book is just one revelation after another... it's hard to spend too much time thinking about each one....."

So many thoughts! I agree with you both. I know you're finished now, but I've just read 41. (view spoiler)[
I didn't see it coming with the maker's daughter, I thought the apprentice was going to be an eater or something, he'd definitely changed. As if the seed was there all along... Bayaz definitely wanted Ferro to follow him there. Do you think he knew the journey was pointless, and it was just for him to get his claws into the people he needed?

I think I've already commented on Logen killing his friend and the kid, and Jezal slapping the maid (she deserved it Iain, I don't blame the king for that at all) haha.

I think deep down he just wants a quiet life, bless him haha. Power is not fun. (hide spoiler)]

[Siobhan]

Laura wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Just read chapter 33, Authority. ..."

I liked that too. :D"

I'm glad you're with me on that one Laura, must be a girl thing xD

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Siobhan wrote: "Laura wrote: "Iain wrote: "On Chapter 41 now: Tomorrow's Hero: this book is just one revelation after another... it's hard to spend too much time thinking about each one....."

Iain wrote: "On Chap..."

Reading as fast as I do, and at work, doesn't leave me much chance to comment... and when I do, it's hard to go back and split it into each respective chapter, so the thoughts pile up...

I leave the slap to you ladies to determine the deservedness...

Are you sure you won't be done before New Years?... You're chugging right along there...

[Siobhan]

Do you know what, I actually might be!! I'm loving it. And where I left off last night, shit is going down! I'm a bit scared for quite a few people right now. I might get finished today!

That was no criticism on the so many thoughts by the way, I totally understand it's hard to comment all the time, especially when you're at work. I was happy there was so many thoughts :)

[Laura]

Though I'm with Siobhan here and totally believe the slap was entirely deserved I have to admit you are a real gentleman for blaming the guy Iain. Women are generally not so forgiving when it comes to dealings with their own sex I think. :D

I have also noticed GR cuts down a lot of my reading time and find it more comfortable to log in less often and post more comments at the same time. Of course I end up forgetting some of the stuff also by the time I end up posting but it's still better this way.

Regarding your question Siobhan, I think Bayaz knew exactly what they will find and where because (view spoiler)[he told the gatekeeper to leave the gate open. I believe he knew Ferro was following. I think he knew there was something wrong with the apprentice and he knew the spirit will give Ferro the means to feel the Seed and find it. He played the angry I didn't find it part because he didn't want to take chances before the proper time. But my hypothesis is based on events to come also. And others may not agree. So I'll wait and see your theory after you're done. :) (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Siobhan wrote: "Do you know what, I actually might be!! I'm loving it. And where I left off last night, shit is going down! I'm a bit scared for quite a few people right now. I might get finished today!

That was ..."

Yea... it just means you have to wait longer to see my thoughts, since I don't know what other chapters I'm spoiling exactly...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Laura wrote: "Though I'm with Siobhan here and totally believe the slap was entirely deserved I have to admit you are a real gentleman for blaming the guy Iain. Women are generally not so forgiving when it comes..."

At this point, I'd believe almost any theory about Bayaz...

And yea... I waste WAY too many hours refreshing goodreads... it's a good thing I listen faster now to compensate... I've already listened to Odd Thomas & 33% of Blood Song since finishing this book yesterday morning... getting a headstart on January...