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November/December 2017: Doha 12 by Lance Charnes "Discussion" *Spoilers*
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Now that we all know what this is about... who's going to read?Doha 12 is available for most of the world's e-readers and in trade paperback all around the world, so it shouldn't be hard to find a copy.
A few libraries carry it -- a few Orange County Public Library branches, Anaheim Public Library and the Washington, D.C. Public Library -- but libraries are a tough nut to crack for indies.
If you're interested in deleted chapters, a downloadable character list (useful for a cast this large), or a scene-setting interview with me, check out the Doha 12 bonus page on my website.
I just read it about 3 years ago & gave it a 5 star review here so it's a little soon for a reread, but I'll skim it & definitely check out the deleted chapters.I rarely give books a 5 star review & very few thrillers. For me, 5 stars are reserved for books that add a lot to my life over & above a few hours of entertainment no matter how good. They have to give me something to really think about. The characterization did that. I can't say more without spoilers, though.
Jim wrote: "I just read it about 3 years ago & gave it a 5 star review here..."Thanks for coming to this party, and thanks again for the great review you wrote!
Mod
Thanks for the link to your bonus page...I checked out the character list and I think it will definitely come in handy.
Welcome, Lisa!The back cover says "Inspired by actual events." If you're interested in those actual events, you can read a post I wrote for Macmillan's Criminal Element about Mossad's 2010 hit on Mahmoud Mabhouh in Dubai. The link to the CCTV video is dead now, but here's another one. The INTERPOL Red Notices have also disappeared, but here's INTERPOL's press release on the case, as well as pictures of the alleged culprits.
I finally finished my last book & got this one out. Looking forward to starting it at lunch tomorrow. I read the first chapter bonus section the other day & was impressed. I'll be curious to read the first chapter again while keeping it in mind so I can try to figure out why it was deleted.
Jim wrote: " Looking forward to starting it at lunch tomorrow..."I hope you like it as much as you did South.
Has anyone else started reading yet?
I got through the first 10 chapters. A lot of names strange to me, but I'm not having too tough a time keeping them distinct, although I wish I'd gotten the paperback since I have an easier time flipping to the character list that way. I'm glad I read the chapter one bonus section, but I'm also glad it was edited out. It would have interrupted the flow of the story & the way it is referred to has more impact. Just the outlines are all that we really need at this point.
I also read the article you wrote about Mossad's 2010 hit on Mahmoud Mabhouh in Dubai. Wow. Things have changed a lot from the world described by Antonio J. Méndez in The Master of Disguise: My Secret Life in the CIA.
I noticed you've written a couple new books starting with The Collection. Somehow I missed your announcement of that. I look forward to reading it soon.
If you're having a difficulty with the character names, you might want to download the cast list from the bonus page.My DeWitt Agency Files series (so far, The Collection and Stealing Ghosts in that order) is more crime/intrigue than action/adventure, so I didn't announce it here. The series involves crimes against or using art and is very different from my two thrillers. If that interests you, please check them out.
Thanks. Not that much trouble, but I will print out a copy & stick it into the Kindle's cover just in case. It would be nice to have the deleted scenes dated on the web page so I'd know when to read them more easily. The last one contains a major spoiler if anyone reads it ahead of time.The "Too Long In Paris" deleted scene was very good. It showed Ziyad's ability with the knife & gave a few more details about the earlier assassinations. What made you decide to leave it out?
I really like the short chapters & the changing points of view. It's refreshing to see everyone's motivations, not just one side. The war-weariness, good people doing bad things so worse won't happen, & other ambiguities add a lot of depth to the story.
I read through some of the discussion questions which contain spoilers. Not a big deal for me since I've read it before, but a warning to first time readers. 1. Doha 12 is based on an actual event in which the Mossad used the names of real dual-national Israelis during an assassination operation. What would you do if you saw your name connected to a major crime in the news? What steps would you take to protect yourself? How do you think your friends and relatives might react?
Since the TSA has made so many mistakes with their no-fly list, this is a little easier to imagine today than it would have been just a decade ago. I still wouldn't know what to do. I might not even know it happened since I'm not great with keeping up with the news.
My circumstances would be quite different from Jake's since I live out in the country. There aren't many options for getting from my house to work, a long commute that I perform like clockwork. There are few people around, but it's one of the redneck capitals of the country where 2/3 of the people carry guns. Strangers, especially any people of color, are quite noticeable.
A few years ago, one of our neighbors had his girlfriend move in with him. She brought along a mare that escaped & showed up at our place since we have horses, too. My wife was leaving on her school bus run, so she put the mare in one of our fields that had a gate near my shop & where she parks the bus. She called the owner, Carol, who said she'd stop by & get her.
I knew none of this so when I got a call from another neighbor, Tammy, about a car parked by my shop, I was worried & she said she'd take care of it. I figured she'd get her husband, the county constable, to check the car out, but he'd left early, so she walked over in her bathrobe with fuzzy pink slippers & a large pistol which she used to run Carol off telling her to return when Marg got back. Apparently she wasn't listening to any explanations, either. Definitely a different environment than NYC.
;)
Jim wrote: "It would be nice to have the deleted scenes dated on the web page so I'd know when to read them more easily..."Fixed, here as well as for the other books. I put a "spoiler" notice on the discussion questions, too.
I cut "Too Long in Paris" because the book was running long, and beta readers persuaded me that I already had enough descriptions of Alayan's team carrying out their hits. It's the same reason "She's Gone" went away, even though I rather liked the view it gave us of Miriam's private life.
Jim wrote: "...she walked over in her bathrobe with fuzzy pink slippers & a large pistol which she used to run Carol off..."
In the thriller-novel version of the story, this is when the terrorists/CIA assassins/aliens would make her disappear. =8O
When the people caught up in the Mabhouh hit first learned that the Mossad had used their names, they were understandably extremely concerned. They got to entertain visitors from their countries' security services. They didn't know whether they were going to be arrested, or if they could ever travel again. Since two of the world's most ruthless organizations were involved (Hamas and Mossad), at least some were afraid they'd be killed. Of course, it's this last bit that was the spark that started Doha 12.
Thanks. Good timing for the last of the deleted scenes. That's where I'm at in the book. Things have really heated up.
2. Jake is compelled by circumstances to give up a low-paying job he loves to take a higher-paying job he’s good at, but doesn’t like. Have you ever been placed in that position? How did your decision work out for you in the long run? Would you do the same thing again?I was a remodeler/carpenter until I was in my mid 30s when an injury forced me to change careers. We were barely making ends meet when it happened, so the next couple of years were tough with 3 young kids to support. We both worked part time while I went to college full time to get a bit of paper that declared that a middle aged carpenter knew something about computers which had been a hobby. I made more money & benefits on my probationary period at my first computer job than I ever had before plus I didn't have to support a pickup with thousands of dollars in tools. 3 years later, I was making almost 3 times as much.
I really miss working outside & seeing the results of my work, though. Being indoors on a nice day is tough. Computers can be frustrating & the pressure when a system goes down or has issues is just too intense. No matter how hard I work, the server room looks the same when I leave as it did when I opened up in the morning. Still, there are no more frosty mornings walking slick ridge poles or 100 degree days in the hot sun doing heavy labor.
Woodworking became a hobby that almost pays for itself, but will never be enough to live on. I mostly stick to small projects so I can see accomplishment quickly. I have the farm to take care of so I get some outside work, too. Most importantly, I managed to get the kids educated & out to their own productive lives. They're all happily married with houses of their own. With some adjustments, it's worked far better than I could have expected, but it's a job, not a passion like woodworking.
So it sounds like it worked out reasonably well in the end. One small upside to IT work is that it usually doesn't destroy your knees.I worked in IT for thirteen years, much of it in direct user support. Users can wear you down. I was pretty ready to go by the time I left the field. That and my set-design experience got me into computer games, which was pretty acceptable midlife-crisis kind of work, though it didn't pay like IT.
I just picked it up for my Kindle and I'm looking forward to starting it this weekend. The description looks interesting and, given the nature of the book, this subject matter is always topical.
Welcome, Robert! I hope you'll like the book.
Lance wrote: "So it sounds like it worked out reasonably well in the end. One small upside to IT work is that it usually doesn't destroy your knees. ..."True. It's not just users, but big companies. Both have issues that happen over & over again.
Jake hides from Rinnah the nature of the threat against them. If you knew of such a threat to your family but were helpless to protect them, would you still tell them, and what would yousay? Do you believe Jake’s feelings of guilt are justified, and if so, why? What do you think Jake should have done?
This is one of the reasons I liked this book so much - real world characters & situations. It was a judgement call on Jake's part. He questioned his own judgement knowing that he might just be paranoid since others were telling him so. He had to balance that against his family's need for normalcy & stability.
A young child, a pregnant wife, & a job change all make family dynamics touchy. The urge to protect a pregnant wife is hard coded into us & it was a hot-button issue for them. My wife & I often don't tell each other about things that we know will upset the other one unless they really need to know. Often enough, they'll work themselves out.
Young kids with a sibling on the way can react in strange ways. For instance, one of ours wet the bed several nights after receiving the news. It seemingly had no more effect on the other than one of the dogs or ponies getting pregnant. Just getting the little boogers to fit into the regime of school & such is often enough of a battle, as was so well shown.
As it turned out, Jake was wrong, but I can't blame him for it. Seemed like a natural mistake & his kicking himself for it was also natural. 20/20 hindsight.
This, and Eve's reactions to everything, were the hardest things for me to write. I've never had kids, and even when I was a kid, I never particularly enjoyed being around them. Children are the cruelest members of the species.But Jake needed a nuclear family because he needed something to lose and something to fight for. I'm quite done with the brooding-loner hero. Thus Rinnah and Eve. I leaned heavily on my critique group (parents all) to tell me when I went wrong, when Rinnah wasn't tetchy enough or when Eve wasn't acting her age. I'm glad to hear I got it at least mostly right.
This experience helped considerably when I wrote South and had to deal with Nora's two children.
Lisa and Robert -- are you still with us here?
You did a good job on the kid. Yes, they are little monsters at times. I wanted to strangle mine regularly, one far more frequently than the other two. Guess who he takes after? ;)
I read the torture scene today which was memorable. It wasn't gross, but just really well done. The way Jake reacted made perfect sense & I loved the Miriam picked up the slack. Her reactions afterward were great, too.
I finished it today at lunch. Again, the way the characters are drawn, especially the bad guys (terrorists) is fantastic. In their own minds, they're not villains. Sure, some are psycho, but so are some of the 'good' guys. In fact, there's not much difference between them. Most got into this for the best & worst of reasons. They've all been terribly hurt by wars & violence. They're soldiers of a sort & often do crappy things so worse don't happen - at least, they hope so. Many aren't so sure, but they can't quit in the middle of a job, either.
Fantastic. Thanks, Lance!
Thanks for reading it again, and for weighing in on some of the questions! Let me know if you have any questions that aren't on the list, or if there are any questions on the list you really want to tackle.
No other questions that I can think of offhand. The question about Miriam's femininity amused me. I guess city folk might have an issue, but I grew up watching most of the women in my life deal with horses & livestock, so the idea of a tough woman being less feminine never really occurred to me.I met my wife when we both worked at a racing stable where we both dealt with young, energetic Thoroughbred race horses - a tough, somewhat dangerous job. Years later I watched her load a big, recalcitrant gelding on a trailer pretty much by herself after it had beat the crap out of 4 or 5 big guys who tried first. They didn't know what they were doing. She did & the gelding found himself seriously over matched.
My mother is 5'2", 110 lbs, & 77 years old. Sunday morning we were talking while she was feeding the horses & she sounded frustrated. I mentioned that & she said she got kicked across a stall by one of her horses a couple of days before. It caught her on the inner thigh & the swelling went down into her knee so she couldn't bend it properly. It made stepping over the lower chain on the stall guards difficult. This morning she said she could bend it some, so she should be back to riding next week.
Anyway, both dress up nicely. I thought my wife was feminine enough to marry 35+ years ago & raise 3 kids with.
You've probably noticed that I don't have a problem with strong, healthy women. There are two in Doha 12 -- Miriam and Kelila -- and Bel from South is cut from the same cloth, even though it takes her a while to find her inner badass. Even though McGinley called Nora "a little thing," she was made of spring steel and attitude. Carson, the female lead in the DeWitt Agency Files series, is kind of a Miriam gone sour.I don't think I've written a "beautiful" major female character. "Beautiful" is pretty rare (except in fiction), and it can be overrated. Jake describes Miriam as "handsome" when he first sees her, and Gur says Kelila is "not classically pretty, but strong and proud and healthy in a way that made men look twice or more." Carson's on "the okay side of plain" in the male lead's words. I don't have anything against "pretty," other than it implies a delicacy that doesn't fit these women. The male characters seem to appreciate them nonetheless.
Still, many readers of both sexes get turned off by female characters who aren't Hollywood-pretty and don't wear size 2 dresses. That's what that question's getting at.
It sounds like your mom will outlast us all.
I appreciated that none of the women were drop dead gorgeous & didn't run around in high heels while running up stairs & fighting. It's nice to have real women involved.
Hi Lance, I'm three quarters of the way through the story. I got sidelined by work and the flu in December and wasn't able to finish it yet. Will complete it this weekend and post a review. I've thoroughly enjoyed it so far. Great plot and character development. I understand the issue with names, but given the plot and who is involved, the names fit the characters.Great job with this Lance.
Bob
Thanks! I'm glad you like it. Do you have any questions for me?
Why did you choose this particular subject matter? Obviously, this is always a topical subject, but do you have a direct interest in the middle east?
I watched the reporting of the real-world event that this is based on -- Mossad's 2010 hit on Mahmoud Mabhouh in Dubai. (See post #7 for more details.) I remember thinking that it was a ready-made spy thriller. I was looking for something to work on after having problems with a previous novel, and figured that if I didn't write this, someone else would and I'd kick myself for missing the chance. Up until them, I'd been staying away from Arab/Israeli stories because everyone else was doing them.
Mod
I'm glad you're enjoying it! Let me know if you have any questions. Also, be sure to check out the Doha 12 bonus page on my website.
Mod
'Still, many readers of both sexes get turned off by female characters who aren't Hollywood-pretty and don't wear size 2 dresses.'
That is the exact opposite of the types of female characters I like to see. Miriam and Kelila are my kind of girls! I love heroines who are strong, independent, and can kick-butt, while still maintaining some femininity. I wasn't sure about Miriam in the beginning, but once she was attacked and her fighting instincts kicked in, I was a fan.
Lisa P wrote: "Miriam and Kelila are my kind of girls!"Mine too. Jake needed an equal partner, not some helpless ingenue.
Mod
I haven't read a book in a long time where I felt I got to know the thoughts and feelings of so many characters...Great story, great writing! I'm definitely looking forward to reading your other books soon.
So after seeing your author blurb and reading about all your past jobs and experiences, I would like to know how you got into writing?
Lisa P wrote: "So after seeing your author blurb and reading about all your past jobs and experiences, I would like to know how you got into writing?"Thanks for the great review! I'm glad you liked the book, and I hope you get a chance to check out my other novels.
I've always liked the idea of telling stories. I'm not musically or artistically gifted; writing is the only creative thing I do reasonably well. I started writing as a kid. The first thing I remember writing was Adam-12 fan fiction (back before anybody used that term) in fourth grade. By the time I graduated from high school, I'd written one full-length military/detective novel and a short full-length nonfiction history of the Gulf of Tonkin affair.
Then I stopped. College, a new career, other things to do -- you know how that goes. In 2004, I went to intelligence officer school in San Angelo, Texas, and found myself in the middle of the prairie with not a lot to do besides studying. I was considerably older than the other students and I was the class leader, so I couldn't really go out socializing with them.
I started writing another novel as a vehicle for some characters who could keep me company. It helped remind me how much I enjoyed creating characters and the stories that gave them something interesting to do. I've been writing ever since. Doha 12 was the fifth novel I wrote since I started again.
Action/Adventure Aficionados
Books mentioned in this topic
South (other topics)The Collection (other topics)
Stealing Ghosts (other topics)
The Master of Disguise: My Secret Life in the CIA – The First CIA-Authorized Memoir of International Espionage Operations (other topics)
The Collection (other topics)
More...
Synopsis:
Jake Eldar’s and Miriam Schaffer’s names may kill them.
Jake manages a bookstore in Brooklyn. Miriam is a secretary at a Philadelphia law firm. Both grew up in Israel and emigrated to build new lives in America. Neither knows the other exists…until the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad uses their identities in an operation to assassinate a high-ranking Hezbollah commander in Doha, Qatar.
Now Hezbollah plans to kill them both.
Jake, Miriam and ten other innocents in five countries – the Doha 12 – awake to find their identities stolen and their lives caught between Mossad and Hezbollah in an international game of murder and reprisal. Jake stumbles upon Hezbollah’s plot but can't convince the police it exists. When his wife is murdered in a botched hit meant for him, Jake and Miriam try desperately to outrun and outfight their pursuers while shielding Jake's young daughter from the killers on their trail.
Hezbollah, however, has a fallback plan: hundreds of people will die if Jake and Miriam survive.
Inspired by actual events, Doha 12 will sweep you from the suburbs of Beirut and Tel Aviv to a pulse-pounding climax in the wintry streets of Manhattan as Jake and Miriam race along the thin, faded gray line between good and bad, hero and villain, truth and lies.
Let's read and discuss!!!