Beauvallet November 2017 Group Read Spoiler thread

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

For open spoilers & final conclusions!

[Barb in Maryland]

I saw 'The Sea Hawk' years before I read 'Beauvallet'. Every time I read the book, I picture Errol Flynn as bold Nicholas, and Brenda Marshall as Dona Dominica. The movie came out in 1940, 'Beauvallet' was published in 1929, so GH couldn't have been picturing Flynn.
BTW, the movie has several plot points in common with GH's book, but not enough to believe the movie is based on it.

I heartily recommend the movie to fans of the book--great swashbuckling adventure, a sweet romance, and a sword duel!
Must have a sword duel...

[Jacquie]

The Seahawk was written by Rafael Sabatini who could write swashbuckling heroes most delightfully. On the other hand the movie of The Golden Hawk by Frank Yerby was a disaster though the book is okay.

[Barb in Maryland]

Jacquie wrote: "The Seahawk was written by Rafael Sabatini who could write swashbuckling heroes most delightfully. On the other hand the movie of The Golden Hawk by Frank Yerby was a disaster though the book is okay."

I was so unclear in my last comment. Sabitini's Sea Hawk is NOT the basis for the 1940 movie of the same title (though it is a fabulous story that should have been made into a movie). Anyhoo, I was trying to recommend the movie to readers of Beauvallet--I should have said 'our book' instead of 'the book'.
Sorry for the confusion...

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

& I thought I would tuck this in here.

All the guff about Simon the Coldheart (quite a bit in a short book) must have made very little sense to readers when S the C was suppressed.

Since I read Beauvallet first I must have just skimmed that part.

[Barb in Maryland]

Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: "& I thought I would tuck this in here.

All the guff about Simon the Coldheart (quite a bit in a short book) must have made very little sense to readers when S the C was suppressed.

Since I read B..."

Likewise, I read 'Beauvallet' years before 'Simon'. I thought she was just nattering on about an important ancestor and just kept reading. Of course, the 'aha!' moment came when I read 'Simon' for the first time...

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Barb in Maryland wrote: "I saw 'The Sea Hawk' years before I read 'Beauvallet'. Every time I read the book, I picture Errol Flynn as bold Nicholas, and Brenda Marshall as Dona Dominica. The movie came out in 1940, 'Beauval..."

Douglas Fairbanks junior swashed a few buckles though,didn't he?

I always picture Beauvallet with lighter coloured hair because of Fairbanks & Flynn. GH quite definitely gives him black hair & I had to curb my wayward imagination.

I've finished & from when Beauvallet entered Spain on it is a 5★ read.

GH was still a young writer then. If she was older I think she would have gone back & made the use of language more consistent. There was too much Beauvallet family background, which was just baffling if you first read when StheC was suppressed. I knew about StheC because my father was trying so hard to find a copy, but most readers would have been baffled.

& yeah, yeah I know - Nick gave his word, honour blah, blah but I found the falling in love risking not only his own life, but his crews, his ship & even Dominica's to put her & her father on Spanish soil, when they are already in love & she is a heretic- too quixotic for me.

Still a very strong 4★ for me - maybe 4.5★. i'm still pondering.

[Critterbee❇]

I have a question. Several times GH writes that Beauvallet was 'brave' in regards to his dress. I don't think it means daring to be eccentric in his dress, but I am not sure what it means. Does anyone have an idea? I almost thought it referred to a colour.

[Critterbee❇]

Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: " yeah, yeah I know - Nick gave his word, honour blah, blah but I found the falling in love risking not only his own life, but his crews, his ship & even Dominica's to put her & her father on Spanish soil, when they are already in love & she is a heretic- too quixotic for me."

He was definitely eccentric, crazy, thrill seeking, etc. Today he would be trying to circumnavigate in a hot air balloon, or parachuting from the outer atmosphere.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Critterbee: I have not read Simon yet. Do you all recommend it?

I think Beauvallet makes more sense if you have read Simon first - only because Beauvallet includes so much (for a very short book)family history.

Simon isn't GH's best book but it isn't her worst either.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

I'm going to ask in the librarian's group if I can make it a series. For fiction the books should share a world &/or characters. Because the time in England for Beauvallet is so short & there are no common characters, I want to be sure before adding.

[Barb in Maryland]

Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: " Critterbee: I have not read Simon yet. Do you all recommend it?

I think Beauvallet makes more sense if you have read Simon first - only because Beauvallet includes so much (for a very short book)..."

I must respectfully disagree--Nick Beauvallet's relationship to Simon has close to nothing to do with his seafaring career nor with his adventures in Spain nor his romance with Dominica. Look on the few bits of family background as an 'Easter Egg' for those who have already read 'Simon'.
Truly--my Arrow edition is 262 pages long and has approx 5 pages of Simon focused material, if that.
Carol--I know you have a very old Heinemann edition. Do you think any editing has been done over the years? I know we readers often have different interpretations of the characters' motivation and personality--but it is very rare that we disagree about the actual words on the page...

[Critterbee❇]

I do not remember reading a lot about Simon in the version I am reading, either.

[Elza]

I do love Joshua Dimmock. He is smart, resourceful, and boy, does he know it. "What it is to have a head on one's shoulders!"

I'm reminded that in The Toll-Gate, Jack Staple's man, Cocking, starts out as an interesting character along the same lines, but then pretty much disappears from the story. Fortunately, Dimmock stays front and center.

[Jackie]

that's true, I'd forgotten about Cocking.

[Elza]

And Aunt Beatrice reminds me of -- is it Sancia, in The Grand Sophy? Large and indolent, doing only what she wants, pretty much ignoring everyone else. Except that Beatrice is pure evil. She is like the Heyer equivalent of Jabba the Hutt.

[Critterbee❇]

Elza wrote: "And Aunt Beatrice reminds me of -- is it Sancia, in The Grand Sophy? Large and indolent, doing only what she wants, pretty much ignoring everyone else. Except that Beatrice is pure evil. She is lik..."

Yes, Sancia is from Grand Sophy, indolent, sleepy, reposed, golden and magnificent. Sancia was not very bright, where Beatrice is cunning. And Sancia was not cruel, like Beatrice.

But, I am biased, I loved Sancia.

"'No one, said the Marquesa, with decision, 'shall shoot a pistol, because it is of all things what I most detest, and, besides, it is more important that we should prepare dinner!' "
❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤

[Susan in NC]

Just ok on my personal scale, but the ending was fun! I was so glad Diego and Beatrice got some comeuppance (yes, I know Beatrice was just trundled about, but I think getting out of her chair is work for her).

[Critterbee❇]

Beatrice lost the money that never really was hers in the first place, which will surely be a heavy blow, perhaps one she mourns more than her son.

But also, how she was treated might offer protection from the King and the Inquisition. She obviously was an injured party, unaware of the duplicity of her niece, etc

[Susan in NC]

❇Critterbee wrote: "Beatrice lost the money that never really was hers in the first place, which will surely be a heavy blow, perhaps one she mourns more over than her son.

But also, how she was treated might offer p..."

Thank you, I had forgotten about the money; I agree, she will mourn that loss more than her son.

[Barb in Maryland]

Over on the Chapters 1-11 thread we got into movies, specifically who (among movie stars of yore) we pictured as Nick Beauvallet. This conversation brought to my mind the realization that 'Beauvallet' is a very visual book. Lots of action, lots of 'film-able' scenes. For me the whole book unfolded as if I were watching an old Errol Flynn or Tyrone Power swashbuckler.
The opening naval battle and ship-boarding bears a great resemblance to the opening scenes of Flynn's 1940 film 'The Sea Hawk'. I can easily picture Nick, in his Chevalier du Guise persona, chatting with the king of Spain. His clever escape from the prison is straight out of Hollywood. The cross-country escape/rescue of Dominica/sword fight with Diego--Quite frankly, I do not know why it was never made into a movie. GH was most likely familiar with Douglas Fairbanks Sr's swashbuckler movies of the '20s when she wrote this and it shows. (the bit at the beginning of Nick's fight with Don Diego, when he bends his rapier--straight out of any number of movies of the era. I know, I've seen most of them--though usually it is the bad guy (often played by Basil Rathbone) who did it, not the hero).
Of all of her books, this is the one that most relies on action (rather than witty dialogue) to propel the story.
Anyway, a rather roundabout way to say that I love the book, not so much for the actual words on the page, but for the movie those words project in my mind.

[Critterbee❇]

The book is very visual! I think it would make a great movie, too. With today's casting, though, I am not sure who be able to pull it off.

[Pamela]

Barb, isn't it interesting how we visualize scenes as we read? I had the same vivid mental movie during the climactic scene in The Unknown Ajax!

I read an internet article recently about these mental movies. It was fascinating. Apparently not all readers visualize the same way.

[Barb in Maryland]

❇Critterbee wrote: "The book is very visual! I think it would make a great movie, too. With today's casting, though, I am not sure who be able to pull it off."

I'm with you there--maybe one of the Chris crew(Evans, Pine, Pratt, Hemsworth). All have shown they can do the action and the comedy, but how are any of them with a sword in their hands?
Sigh... back to picturing Errol Flynn...

[Critterbee❇]

Barb in Maryland wrote: "-maybe one of the Chris crew(Evans, Pine, Pratt, Hemsworth)..."

Ha! The Chris crew!

[Susan in NC]

Pamela wrote: "Barb, isn't it interesting how we visualize scenes as we read? I had the same vivid mental movie during the climactic scene in The Unknown Ajax!

I read an internet article recently about these me..."

I think that’s why I love reading over a lot of movies- you can cast them in your head and visualize as you please!

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

I'm wondering if GH edited Beauvallet after deciding to suppress StheC. That would explain a few things. My copy is a reprint from 1937.

I have an Arrow copy of Beauvallet but it may take me a few days to check.

[Barb in Maryland]

Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: "I'm wondering if GH edited Beauvallet after deciding to suppress StheC. That would explain a few things. My copy is a reprint from 1937.

I have an Arrow copy of Beauvallet but it may take me a few..."

Thanks, Carol. I, for one, sure would appreciate it, as it felt as if you had read one book and I had read a different book, but with the same title and general plot.

[Nick]

I just want to say thansk for making this the group read. I was absolutley hating it at the start, but I was gripped by the end. I don't think I would've carried on reading if it weren't for the group.

I haven't read Simon The Coldheart so I can safely say that you don't need to have read it to enjoy this one.

And I'm voting for Chris Hemsworth to play Nick. He's got the right amount of carefree, eye-twinkling.

[Susan in NC]

Nick wrote: "I just want to say thansk for making this the group read. I was absolutley hating it at the start, but I was gripped by the end. I don't think I would've carried on reading if it weren't for the gr..."

I felt the same as our Nick (from Cambridge, not Beauvallet) about the book, but it was my first read and I’m glad I finished. Agreed, you don’t need to read Simon to get this story - never read that one, either.

I’m not very hip, but isn’t hemsworth the one who plays Thor? Yes, I agree he’d make a good Beauvallet. What about Tom Hiddleston, he’s already British, which is handy. Every time I see his face, I feel like he looks like he stepped out of an old portrait of some English baron or lord, he just has that aristocratic, old-fashioned look about him (mind you I’m a middle-aged American, what the heck do i know?)

[Critterbee❇]

I enjoyed it very much, and more so on my second read than on my first.

[Pamela]

I pictured Benedict Cumberbatch as Nick while I was reading it. I think he has the perfect straight-faced-yet-tongue-in-cheek attitude to play a swash-buckler part.

However, we went to see Thor-Ragnarok last night and Chris Hemsworth would also be terrific as a more beefcake-y Nick.

[Susan in NC]

Pamela wrote: "I pictured Benedict Cumberbatch as Nick while I was reading it. I think he has the perfect straight-faced-yet-tongue-in-cheek attitude to play a swash-buckler part.

However, we went to see Thor-R..."

Oh, yes, Benedict would be a great choice!

[Lesley]

Finished this and enjoyed it. I was struck by the change in flow and language from about the half-way point. It made me wonder if GH had written the book in two stages - begun; paused; came back to it later?
I haven't read Simon to the best of my memory (although I suspect I have eons ago). The references to him and the family didn't make any difference to the story for me as it was just a bit of family background. Maybe if you had already read Simon and were very familiar with his story, as Carol is, it might have made a difference?

[Susan in Perthshire]

Susan in NC wrote: "Nick wrote: "I just want to say thansk for making this the group read. I was absolutley hating it at the start, but I was gripped by the end. I don't think I would've carried on reading if it weren..."

Tom Hiddleston would be perfect!

[Susan in NC]

He and Benedict remind me of 1930s and 1940s British actors - and the classiest American actors like Cary Grant and William Powell - tall, lean, very aristocratic in bearing, and rich, plummy voices!

[Susan in Perthshire]

Susan in NC wrote: "He and Benedict remind me of 1930s and 1940s British actors - tall, lean, very aristocratic in bearing, and rich, plummy voices!"

You are right Susan!

[Jackie]

Lesley~aka Ella's Gran wrote: "Finished this and enjoyed it. I was struck by the change in flow and language from about the half-way point. It made me wonder if GH had written the book in two stages - begun; paused; came back to..."

how did the language seem to change, can you be more specific? I'm not yet halfway though so I want to watch for it

[Lesley]

I just felt the language was less elaborate in the second half of the book - less flowery, Jackie. Will be interested to see if you pick up on it.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

& I had a quick read of this edition of Beauvallet & couldn't detect anything different in the text - so I guess the family history struck me differently from the rest of you!

[Kim]

Cary Grant made a great career in the US, but was originally born and raised in England (Horfield, Bristol) as Archibald Leach. (which I knew without consulting the internet, my kids regard me as their personal version of Google, I provided information on demand before there were search engines). He had what is referred to as a transatlantic accent, I developed one when we moved to England. If you watch his very early films, he sounds more English, as he does in Hitchcock films set in England. My daughter went full-bore Bucks (Buckinghamshire) from her first day in school, my hairdresser said she sounded “ever so posh”. A few years later, when we moved to Oakland, CA she fell into “Ebonics” during her first day of school, it is like living with a verbal chameleon. I used to fall into voices, accents, and characters when I read to them at night, so it may come naturally. (All that theatre training had some use). William Powell, on the other hand, was born in Pittsburgh, PA, but had that aristocratic theatre voice. Chris Hemsworth is Australian, but has developed the “transatlantic” accent for many roles, although I noticed in the Huntsman series he sounds more North of England, he could be a member of the Stark family in Game of Thrones. I find Cumberbatch’s American accent as Dr. Strange a little jarring, in my head he should always sound like Sherlock Holmes. ;-)

[Susan in NC]

Kim wrote: "Cary Grant made a great career in the US, but was originally born and raised in England (Horfield, Bristol) as Archibald Leach. (which I knew without consulting the internet, my kids regard me as t..."

Thanks Kim, my mom used to be my personal search engine - many times in the past two years I’ve thought, “I have to ask Mom about...” it’s tough. My son is like that with accents - made him very versatile when he turned his hand from cross country to theater senior year in high school!

Yes, that plummy accent of Grant is what I had in mind for our casting of Beauvallet!

[Critterbee❇]

Before there was Google, there were Librarians! Although honestly, the amount and type of reference questions has not changed too much in the time that I have been working at libraries.

I think that people who have lived in different places pick up a little of the speech mannerisms / accents from every place that they live. It is helpful for effective communication.

My cousins from New York think I have British accent ( I do not). When I lived in the south (USA), people thought I had a Northern USA accent. Everywhere I live, because I do not speak exactly like locals, people think that I have an accent. I think I just have a neutral American accent.

[Critterbee❇]

There are online 'accent tests' - I just took one and it said I have an accent halfway between British and American. I guess that makes me a native Bermudian? haha!

[Elza]

I have to say, before November turns to December, how much I enjoyed revisiting my first Heyer. Nick Beauvallet will always have a special place in my heart.
Also, since my college days as a Spanish major, I have had a fondness for Spanish history and culture. What a special thrill it was for me this summer to get to visit Spain with my husband! I didn't get to all the locations of the story but we did visit El Escorial, where we saw Philip's reception room and his spartan apartments there, with a window beside his bed overlooking the altar of the church. We also had more than one pleasant stroll down Madrid's Calle Mayor. Good memories!

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

That would have been wonderful, Elza.

He may be cocky, but I do like Nick!

[Susan in NC]

Yes, Nick is a charmer! Eliza, that sounds like a dream trip, good for you!

[Teresa]

Guys I gave up. Not because of the book exactly, I will read it at some stage, but I'm finding it almost impossible to read anything at the moment. It's actually starting to bother me. I've never had a slump that's lasted this long. My life has stepped up a gear since August and I have even less time than usual so maybe I'm just over tired. Hoping I'll get back in the swing soon.

[Barb in Maryland]

Teresa wrote: "Guys I gave up. Not because of the book exactly, I will read it at some stage, but I'm finding it almost impossible to read anything at the moment. It's actually starting to bother me. I've never h..."

Teresa, I sympathize. Try a comfort read, or a holiday short story. I find that when I'm stressed/tired/sick, it is useless for me to try to read anything new. Hang in there...

[Teresa]

Thanks Barb. I'll give it a go.