Book II

[Kerstin]

Augustine is growing into adolescence. Of this time he writes, “(2) What was it that delighted me? Only loving and being loved. But there was no proper restraint as in the union of mind with mind, where a bright boundary regulates friendship. From the mud of my fleshly desires and my erupting puberty belched out murky clouds that obscured and darkened my heart until I could not distinguish the calm light of love from the fog of lust.” He laments that his parents were no help, the importance of his education took priority.

Then we come to the famous scene of him and his buddies robbing a pear tree. An act done purely for the thrill of doing it, not to have any personal gain. In the following narrative he talks about vices and how they are overcome, but this is not the full answer to his deed. He probes the layers and dimensions of sin resulting from one senseless act. “(16) What fruit did I ever reap from those things that I blush to remember…?” He can find no excuse and declares it a “shameless act” (17).
“(18) I slid away from you and wandered away, my God; far from your steadfastness I strayed in adolescence, and I became to myself a land of famine.”

One line cracked me up, “(5) I am relating these events to my own kin, the human race, however few of them may chance upon these writings of mine.”

[Galicius]

Yes, the pear tree section is important. St. Augustine admits to being gratuitously evil. He is asking himself the hard question what led him to theft and what delighted him though there was no loveliness in it such as justice or wisdom. He also asks a question which I connected with thinking that was exalted over by the chiefly Twentieth Century School of Existentialism: “Would any commit murder without a motive?” St. Augustine denies such a state of mind. Camus’ novel “The Stranger” caused excitement in many readers over an act of murder without any meaning or purpose in the mind of the killer. I see correlation between what St. Augustine says and what the Existentialists posited denying that the universe has any meaning or purpose. Perhaps I am stretching it but I was rather sympathetic to Camus when I first read it long ago, and on reading it again more recently viewed it in an altogether different light as a depressing piece.

[Kerstin]

Kerstin wrote: "One line cracked me up, “(5) I am relating these events to my own kin, the human race, however few of them may chance upon these writings of mine.”

I downloaded the sample to Peter Kreeft's I Burned for Your Peace: Augustine's Confessions Unpacked and he states at the beginning: "The Confessions has been the single most read, reread, and quoted post-Biblical Christian book ever written." ...we are in good company :)

I am exposing my nerdy side just a bit here... but where did Kreeft find this statistic? Here on goodreads you can find all sorts of lists of most 'rated' but most 'read' is not an option. And on the internet all you find are sales statistics, but a compilation of most read classics over the ages, no such luck.

[Kenneth]

Is “confessions” really post-biblical? The idea of the “collection of books” (first called “Biblia” in Greek) didn’t exist till 397 at the Catholic Council of Carthage. St. Augustine wouldn’t of heard of a bible until he helped to make it long after his conversion.

[Kerstin]

I see what you're saying. I understood Kreeft's statement to mean that the texts that became the New Testament were written before Augustine's 'Confessions'.

[Talea]

I just started reading book II and before I even get to the meat of the chapter it hits me that he is not a young man when he is writing this. He is in his 40's if I'm not mistaken, my age. How many of us truly look at our lives in this way much less share it?

[Kenneth]

You’re only as old as your attitude Talea ;)

[Kenneth]

An interesting observation by St. Augustine that could help defend the celibacy of priests and nuns:

And, he that is unmarried thinketh of the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; but he that is married careth for the things of this world, how he may please his wife.

[Manny]

I am fascinated on how Augustine traces all good back to God. Notice here from chapter 2.3.7. He has been describing his dissolution and his mother's appeals:

"7. Woe is me! And dare I affirm that You held Your peace, O my God, while I strayed farther from You? Did You then hold Your peace to me? And whose words were they but Yours which by my mother, Your faithful handmaid, You poured into my ears, none of which sank into my heart to make me do it? For she desired, and I remember privately warned me, with great solicitude, not to commit fornication; but above all things never to defile another man's wife. These appeared to me but womanish counsels, which I should blush to obey. But they were Yours, and I knew it not, and I thought that You held Your peace, and that it was she who spoke, through whom You held not Your peace to me, and in her person wast despised by me, her son, the son of Your handmaid, Your servant. But this I knew not; and rushed on headlong with such blindness..."

Even though it's his mother urging him, he traces it back to God who is doing the actual talking: "But they were Yours, and I knew it not."

[Manny]

Talea wrote: "I just started reading book II and before I even get to the meat of the chapter it hits me that he is not a young man when he is writing this. He is in his 40's if I'm not mistaken, my age. How man..."

He was roughly 45, depending when he actually finished it.

[Manny]

Kenneth wrote: "Is “confessions” really post-biblical? The idea of the “collection of books” (first called “Biblia” in Greek) didn’t exist till 397 at the Catholic Council of Carthage. St. Augustine wouldn’t of he..."

Though the actual cannon wasn't settled until 381 I think, St. Athanasius gave the list that would become the cannon in 367. Augustine quotes from scripture pretty freely, so I imagine he had most of what was to become the Bible at hand.

[Manny]

Galicius wrote: "Yes, the pear tree section is important. St. Augustine admits to being gratuitously evil. He is asking himself the hard question what led him to theft and what delighted him though there was no lov...

“Would any commit murder without a motive?” St. Augustine denies such a state of mind. Camus’ novel “The Stranger” caused excitement in many readers over an act of murder without any meaning or purpose in the mind of the killer. I see correlation between what St. Augustine says and what the Existentialists posited denying that the universe has any meaning or purpose. Perhaps I am stretching it but I was rather sympathetic to Camus when I first read it long ago, and on reading it again more recently viewed it in an altogether different light as a depressing piece. "

Galicius, I'm a little confused at your point. Are you saying that Augustine would deny creation to having reason? I do not see that at all. It is true that the 20th century existentialists point out man's irrationality and it is true that Augustine points out the meaninglessness of stealing those pears, but the similarity ends on the surface. The existentialists originate man's irrationality to what they perceive as the over all irrationality of nature. Augustine I don't think sees the stealing the pears as irrational. He sees it as selfish and he gives us the rational reason for doing it. From the last sentences of paragraph 2.4.9:

"It was foul, and I loved it. I loved to perish. I loved my own error— not that for which I erred, but the error itself. Base soul, falling from Your firmament to utter destruction— not seeking anything through the shame but the shame itself!"

He sought the sin, the shame. He loved the sin. It was a rational decision, though in err with God. It was an innate desire. God's creation is rational, but man being fallen desires things that he shouldn't. I don't see any similarity with the existentialists.