Which series do you prefer The Wheel of Time or A Song of Ice and Fire?

[Andrea]

Cindy wrote: "Sorry, RJ :/. You should have finished it at book 6. Just saying. Oh, and you should have stopped throwing in named characters just fir the sake of being able to boast a cast of thousands and just stuck to the story you started. And... talking to a dead guy, pardon."

Wonder if around book 5-6 it's common for this problem to occur, Martin already had a large enough cast but created a bunch more in book 5. I think that's partly what is causing Martin problems now, he has so many threads going on at once he himself can't keep track and figure out where each should go. He should just sit down and pick X characters to wrap up their threads with happy endings and send them out of the story, pick Y characters to simply kill off (and allow them to stay dead, not everyone needs to come back as a zombie...), and then focus on the remaining Z to regain control.

[Cindy]

I think it's similar to the problem Jordan had, though to a lesser degree. Humans, in general, can't really care about more than a few dozen people or characters on a personal level. Once you need a spreadsheet to keep track of things, it's probably time to end the series. I much preferred the old custom of trilogies. Tell one story, and finish it before you start a new one. You can always use the same people, places, and things, but don't weave an ever expanding tangle of threads that neither you nor your readers can disentangle.

I blame the editors and the publishers/producers for not keeping reign on the stories. I suspect the authors end up being paid by the word more or less, or the episode, and no one that could make a difference is invested in slowing down the cash flow to benefit the plot.

[Andrea]

Cindy wrote: "I think it's similar to the problem Jordan had, though to a lesser degree. Humans, in general, can't really care about more than a few dozen people or characters on a personal level. Once you need ..."

Good point. Long series work best if they are kind of episodic (like Jim Butcher's Dresden Files which is a kind of "monster of the day" kind of thing) which an underlying thread that connects the individual novels.

Also, if you got 20 books in your series, likely it took about 20 years to publish them all, people will forget what happened in the first half by the time they get to the conclusion. Which is why I now tend to wait for a series to finish so I can read it more or less all at once. To finish the last three books in Temeraire I think I'll need to start over. And I'm already lost in Chronicles of Elantra since that one is really quite complex (which still being a kind of "monster of the day" type series, it just keeps referencing older events I have absolutely no recollection of!)

I'm reading Pern now, that has 26 or so books in it, but there are subgroupings in it. Two trilogies at the start, then a duology that takes place in Moretta's time. Think there's a couple about the origins of Pern, etc. Not sure how to the rest goes, I'm actually looking forward to reading the later ones to see how they fit into the overall series.

[Cindy]

Andrea wrote: " I'm reading Pern now, that has 26 or so books in it, but there are subgroupings in it. Two trilogies at the start, then a duology that takes place in Moretta's time. Think there's a couple about the origins of Pern, etc. Not sure how to the rest goes, I'm actually looking forward to reading the later ones to see how they fit into the overall series. .."

I was specifically thinking of pern when I said that. She handled the whole series well until she turned it over to her son, but still gave us many enjoyable books without any real cliffhangers or unresolved plots. It may be time for a reread after I finish these giant blocks of words.

I love the way Butcher handles Dresden as well. He always includes just enough background that I think you could almost pick up the series anywhere and get the gist.

Pratchett was a real master of the massive series and sub series. Someday I'll have to read them in order, but it never bothered me to pick up any piece of discworld anywhere and enjoy it as a stand-alone or a new visit with familiar characters.

[Michael]

Cindy wrote: "I think it's similar to the problem Jordan had, though to a lesser degree. Humans, in general, can't really care about more than a few dozen people or characters on a personal level. Once you need ..."
I had a similar problem with the 1632 (aka "Ring of Fire") series by Eric Flint. The series is about an American town, transferred to 17th century Europe by a mysterious cosmic phenomenon. I really enjoyed the first few books, but after a while there were so many "main" characters and so many plot threads going in so many different directions, that I just could not maintain interest in the books.