Audiobooks discussion
Audiobooks in the News
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Reading and privilege
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As much as I love my audiobooks and loathe people that think it isn't reading, the whole "privilege" thing has run its course. It's time for the lefties to come up with some new victim speak.
I sometimes wonder if some of the people who loudly claim audiobooks are "cheating" are the sort who struggle with reading in general and feel resentful of anyone they think is having an easier time of it.I don't listen to that many, (I've been trying to incorporate more into my reading habit, just to shoehorn more books into my life) but for me actually reading books is so much easier and so much faster! Years ago I read The Clash of Kings in pretty much one sitting after buying it, 700+ pages and it prob took me...three maybe four hours to finish? If I'd tried that with the audio version I'd still have been sitting there two days later.
As for being against audiobooks stemming from a position of privilege, it wouldn't surprise me too much. People are often obnoxiously against anything that helps others accomplish tasks that they themselves can do easily.
But an awful lot of people also seem to get very invested in the idea that reading "the right way" conveys some sort of superiority and whether they define "right" by the format or the content just varies from one jerk to another so it may be a lot of the usual 'you're reading the wrong kind of book' snobbery too.
I have to say the article's gratuitous claim of "privilege" was never actually substantiated. The point that audiobooks are a godsend to many was amply made, but the conditions/situations cited aren't respectors of person or status, so where's the privilege? I think it was a headline to grab attention rather than an actual focus of the article.Also, to be fair to those who claim audiobooks are cheating... wait, why do I want to be fair to those snobs? OK, I will at least admit that anyone I've encountered making that claim will quickly backpedal and say, "Of course I don't mean people who can't access print or have a physical condition..." The reality is that the majority of people without some kind of impairment simply don't think of those who do when they are talking about reading--it's human nature to think of others as equally able-bodied because the vast majority of people they encounter are. If pressed, they will allow the need for audiobooks in some circumstances, but they then try to evade whether they would call this "reading".
One last thing about audiobooks and privilege... the argument is a bit reversed since audiobooks--unless acquired through a library--are usually more expensive than the print or ebook versions. So why is it a mark of privilege to read the cheaper versions? Again, I think the notion was merely an attention grabber rather than the point of the article.
Jeanie wrote: "I have to say the article's gratuitous claim of "privilege" was never actually substantiated. The point that audiobooks are a godsend to many was amply made, but the conditions/situations cited are..."I think they're just using 'privilege' in the newer/current usage that's been developing that's more along the lines 'coming from a place where you're likely to underestimate -sometimes dramatically- the scope and nature of the problem(s) because they don't affect you directly and you don't have any personal experience of them', not so much privilege in a monetary or otherwise well-off sense.
Aerulan wrote: "Jeanie wrote: "I have to say the article's gratuitous claim of "privilege" was never actually substantiated. The point that audiobooks are a godsend to many was amply made, but the conditions/situa..."What you say is true in part, given that the author includes being able-bodied and "neurotypical" as trait of the "privileged". But wealth is also noted as follows:
"Anyone who suggests that audiobooks don’t “count” is coming from a place of extreme privilege. Simply put: able-bodied neurotypical wealthy people have more time and opportunity to read physical books."
The big problem with this assertion is the insinuation that this describes the average audiobook reader. But it doesn't. It does describe a strawman anti-audiobook reader that the writer of the article only partially knocks down.
As a former school psychologist I encountered mostly teachers and librarians who dared claim audiobooks were cheating... none were wealthy or had a surplus of time for reading. Parents sometimes voiced the concern--"But isn't that cheating?--when audiobooks were suggested for their child, but I was dealing with middle-class and inner city poor, not wealthy with lots of leisure. The "cheating" myth is far more pervasive than the article writer seems to realize.
Tossing in wealthy as describing the privileged group in question was more politically correct than actually correct. The tragic truth about the wealthy and reading is that the higher up the socio-economic scale you go, the more value is placed on reading and literature. Would that this were not so, but study after study has shown that it is. And that isn't privilege, it is attitude.
Wow, the article touched a nerve with me that I didn't even realize was raw! ;) I'm glad to have someone advocating for audiobooks, but I want the arguments to be on target.
I had a feeling this would trigger some strong opinions!
Jeanie wrote: "The big problem with this assertion is the insinuation that this describes the average audiobook reader. But it doesn't. It does describe a strawman anti-audiobook reader that the writer of the article only partially knocks down. ..."Yep. She's creating a strawman anti-audiobook reader but I think she's also creating a strawman audiobook listener.
Really, the only thing she discusses are the people physically incapable of reading. And if those were the only people who listened to audiobooks, they wouldn't be such a huge segment of the market.
First, regarding the "wealthy" part of her statement. Audiobooks are far more expensive than their print counterparts, and harder to obtain in libraries or borrow from friends, so it actually takes more money to listen in audio than to read in print - especially if you want the same variety in reading choices. And I can see where a wealthy mom might spend a ton of time in cars ferrying her kids to and from practices and lessons, etc. So, in that case, her wealth would be detrimental to her amount of reading time.
I think what she's going for there is that someone working 2 jobs has less reading time... But someone might have a high paying salaried job that they spend as many hours per week doing as the lower paid worker's two jobs. So, I just can't agree that wealth is a meaningful factor.
Time to read might be.. but she never discusses how someone strapped for time might multi-task with audio. She only discusses the people with physical or neurological conditions - many of whom have EXTRA time to read due to those conditions.
So, basically, the only part of her statement that she attempts to defend is it being an extreme privilege to be physically capable of reading books. Which is technically true, but sounds rather obnoxious. You're calling a HUGE percentage of the population extremely privileged.
You might as well say you're extremely privileged to be literate at all. I'd assume the rate for that is equal to or higher than the number of people who are physically incapable of reading.
I'm listening to Tad Williams To Green Angel Tower at the moment. I have the ebooks as well as the audio, and I'm reading along with the audiobook. What I find good, in this case, is by listening to the audiobook you are able to hear the words being pronounced. (Another series I found that helpful is Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series). However, not all of my books need to be listened in order to understand the world, as it were. I tend to listen to audiobooks on my way to work, when I'm walking, because I don't have the time to sit and read a book every night. Or, if I'm trying to do some crafts - rather than having the tv on - I'll listen to audiobooks as well - read and craft at the same time.
The first "talking books" were developed for the blind and were on phonograph records. I believe it was a free or low-cost subscription service. No one thought other people might enjoy them. There were a few records with Shakespeare or maybe authors reading poetry but it was rare. So maybe the rest of us wouldn't even have this genre without the impetus of those who required it.
I work long hours and have a 2 hour commute to and from work. I love audio books because I can listen to them on the bus with my eyes closed after staring at a computer screen all day and my headphones are sound cancelling, so I don't have to hear any inane cell phone &/ or conversations by my fellow commuters.
I think it’s a silly notion. I listen bc I love listening. I’m PRIVILEGED to get to listen. I have access to two great library collections and I can afford a Platinum Audible membership. (And a smartphone and bluetooth earbuds and...)I own my privilege.
As for the “cheating” assertion, it depends on why you are reading. When my children were learning to read (and before) I often read to them and allowed them to listen to audiobooks. For school reading they usually got print books from the library. When they started having arbitrary reading goals that overwhelmed them, we went back to audiobooks and/or me reading to them. If they had been unable to read at grade level and/or were not readers in general, then I may not have done that. My goal was for them to enjoy books and that goal was satisfied.
Jeanie wrote: "Aerulan wrote: "Jeanie wrote: "I have to say the article's gratuitous claim of "privilege" was never actually substantiated. The point that audiobooks are a godsend to many was amply made, but the ..."LOVE your response. You said so eloquently what I was barely able to form into thought!
Joy wrote: "I think it’s a silly notion. I listen bc I love listening. I’m PRIVILEGED to get to listen. I have access to two great library collections and I can afford a Platinum Audible membership. (And a sma..."
Love this too! Really, you make many points in a concise way here... Libraries are available for some options, and buying credits are great when you can. My response to affordability, though, is deal-hunting! I am beyond addicted to listening, now, and the only way I can manage to sustain my habits is biding my time and waiting for deals. I just got 12 credits on their new membership deal, and then POOF a 2 books for 1 credit sale! LOVE IT. My $8.33 credit is now $4.17 (rounded). I also have Kindle Unlimited. You can find a wealth of premium, or at least, excellent titles that are free to borrow for Kindle AND Audible. I don't consider myself as much privileged as I do a successful bargain hunter. I also will select slow shipping for the $1 e-book credit Amazon offers at times, use those to buy the kindle, and then buy the Audible version for a reduced cost in real money. Seriously, I can go on a bit more... if anybody ever has questions about finding deals on Audible/ Amazon or about strategies, please ask me... It's almost as much a hobby as listening to my books is!
Audiobooks lets people be more exposed to different genres of books. Not everyone has the time to sit and read due life’s obligations. With audiobooks you can listen while walking, exercising, doing errands around town, while working on the computer, while making dinner, errands around the house, and while driving & stuck in traffic.
Audiobooks are wonderful for a whole host of reasons but if I had school age children I would be wary of letting audiobooks substitute for learning to read. Learning to read allows one to seek out information rather than be spoonfed information i.e. "what I want to know vs. what someone else wants me to know". There is too much illiteracy in America and when we allow crutches, more people may think that learning to read is an obsolete skill. Audiobooks for children are great as adjuncts and reinforcements to their regular reading life.
I find it interesting that the counterargument was mostly based on people with some physical or medical limitation. Unfortunately that doesn't quite work since any single one of those testimonials could have been from someone considered 'privileged'. I think an argument could be made that some would say audiobooks are for the illiterate and lazy - the seemingly opposite of privileged. All in all it was a poorly written article that didn't make its point. We could get into a much deeper discussion about the inequity in the use of technology, access to technology and the limited diversity of the people who are building technology and engage in critical thinking about how social class and race have become entwined with technology. This author's effort at the conversation was freshman at best.
Janet wrote: "Audiobooks are wonderful for a whole host of reasons but if I had school age children I would be wary of letting audiobooks substitute for learning to read. Learning to read allows one to seek out ..."Most book lovers have been read to (a lot) by their parents. This stimulates a love for reading books. Personally, I think audiobooks would stimulate this love.
Besides, it's often I start looking something up when reading about something - and it doesn't matter if it's read or listened. I'm still curious. I guess a lot of people are stimulated to learn more about something that way - and kids are people too :)
Specs wrote: "Janet wrote: "Audiobooks are wonderful for a whole host of reasons but if I had school age children I would be wary of letting audiobooks substitute for learning to read. Learning to read allows on..."I think it's more that closeness to the parent stimulates the love for reading. Listening to stories on audio is fun but I'm not sure it has the same stimulus.
I read a lot to my kids but we also listened to a lot of audio books snuggled up together. My younger teen and I still do a version of that as a way to wind down before bed, and it gives us something to talk about as well. We usually are doing historical mysteries these days. We've also listened to a lot of audiobooks in the car on family vacations.
Both my kids listen to podcasts and audio books on their own. They have to read a lot of print for school (and I do at work).
A great thing about audio books for kids is that they can listen at a higher level of complexity than they can read, and they get to hear a lot of unfamiliar words pronounced.
I think it is possible to have as much together time with audio books, and it is not limited to a parent's voice after a long day of talking!
I was a slow reader when I was young despite great effort and then an eye problem just ruined reading for me. When I started listening to audiobooks I went from 0 books a year to 50 a year and now well over 100. If I'd had audiobooks in my youth I think I would've loved it.
Listening to audiobooks do help increase vocabulary and comprehension, two key factors in building reading skills. They can't do it alone, but, together with the skills taught directly in the classroom, they can be a significant aid.
Janet wrote: "Audiobooks are wonderful for a whole host of reasons but if I had school age children I would be wary of letting audiobooks substitute for learning to read. Learning to read allows one to seek out ..."My son struggled with reading when he was younger. Audiobooks exposed him to stories he wasn't yet able to read but was ready for intellectually. It gave him incentive to keep working on reading skills and improved comprehension, because the stuff he could read at the time was pretty boring. Now he's at grade level and loves to read, even as a teenager.
Everyone who has posted about their children has talked about how audiobooks have helped their children with their reading skills....which is exactly my point that it how they should be used. I just fear that some parents are using audio similar to video, as a substitute for reading or spending time with their kids. Probably those parents are not on Goodreads.
Lorna wrote: "I wanted to comment because I think there is a certain degree of inclusion with the different formats. Take a series with a lot of difficult words and places like Lord of the Ring. Someone that has..."That's where immersion reading is really good. A couple of times I've had print books I couldn't read because of dialects or stilted writing and I would get the audio and follow along in the print book while I listened to the audio. If you're really determined to get through something difficult, this works.
https://bookriot.com/2017/10/24/audio...