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Group Challenges & Discussions > 2018 Group Challenge Brainstorming

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message 1: by Dazrin (new)

Dazrin | 216 comments So, I thought we should move this discussion to a dedicated thread instead of leaving it in DoodlePanda's thread.

DoodlePanda came up with the idea (1, 2) of Bingo type challenge. You get points for getting a row, column, frame, or blackout on each of 5 Bingo boards.

I added some automatic formatting and formulas to DoodlePanda's board so we don't need to mess calculate scores everytime we finish a book, located here. Anyone can edit the file, so feel free to enter / delete some book and choose categories from the drop-downs to see how it works.

Any suggestions?

Or does someone else have a different idea for 2018? I don't think we are tied to any one thing at this point.


message 2: by MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Resident Book Pusher (new)

MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 3289 comments WOw!

I don't have any plans currently. I'm down.


message 3: by Spacechik (new)

Spacechik | 47 comments This is great. I'm with it!! I don't usually keep track but I think I'll do it this next year. Fun. Also, fyi, XLSX format will not resolve a '<' sign in the first position of a column. Not sure this was the case here but Excel balked at the LIST tab. Otherwise, I love this bingo.


message 4: by Dazrin (new)

Dazrin | 216 comments Spacechik wrote: "This is great. I'm with it!! I don't usually keep track but I think I'll do it this next year. Fun. Also, fyi, XLSX format will not resolve a '<' sign in the first position of a column. Not sure th..."

Howdy neighbor! I'm in Hillsboro. Great to have you! These have been a lot of fun to participate in, I'm sure you will have fun.

Regarding the spreadsheet, it's not due to a "<" it is the "ARRAYFORMULA" portion of the formula that Excel doesn't like (possibly more than that but I know that it doesn't like that part). There might be a way to convert those formulas to work in Excel but I am not sure what it is. They are only used for the drop-down lists on the other tab so the alternative is to manually enter the item from the charts above.

I prefer G. Sheets since it is completely available online, we did something similar with the "All Your Books are Belong to Us" challenge for 2017 so we could all see the progress as we go along: AYBABTU. I have set the sheet to allow anyone to edit it (except some ranges so that formulas didn't get messed up) without logging in to anything.


message 5: by Dazrin (new)

Dazrin | 216 comments Ok, I hadn't looked a lot at the categories or anything other than updating the spreadsheet before. Now that I have done that, there are a couple minor things I would like to tweak on the Bingo! challenge. Mostly because not having a square board bugs me. The symmetry is off!!! :)

Can we change Mega-Mix to a 7x7 board instead of 5x9? That means we need to add 4 categories.

That change also means we can make the scoring the same for horizontal and vertical Bingos! in that board and that diagonal Bingos! now work there too.

If we do that, I think this scoring would make sense:
1st Bingo: 5
2nd Bingo: 5
Frame: 15
Board: 25
Any bingo - horizontal, vertical, or diagonal - would count as the first or second bingo. The larger board would double all the points; there are 48 categories vs 24 (plus the free one).

For the extra 4 categories here are my suggestions.
Move "Set in past", "Set in future", "Re-Read a favourite", and "Part of a series" from the Genres board to the Mega-Mix board. These didn't feel like "genres" to me.
In the Genre board add "A book about a hobby or craft", "Biography/memoir", "Historical fiction", and "Literary".

I have added another tab showing the square board and the updated categories to the sample sheet. I also randomized the Genres and Mega-Mix boards on that tab since they changed.


message 6: by Orlok (new)

Orlok | 555 comments I like it a lot. AYBABTU has been a lot of fun, so count me in for 2018.


message 7: by DoodlePanda (new)

DoodlePanda | 1179 comments Making it 7x7 seems fine to me :)

When I was making them I didn't think anyone else would be interested in joining so I made "genres" that I thought it was likely I would want to read. I never read biographies for instance, so that makes me unable to complete the board. "Making" myself read books I wouldn't normally read is ok, but not when I have to do a lot of them in a year. So I made it so I had a fair chance of finishing the boards.


message 8: by Dazrin (last edited Oct 23, 2017 01:03PM) (new)

Dazrin | 216 comments DoodlePanda wrote: "When I was making them I didn't think anyone else would be interested in joining so I made "genres" that I thought it was likely I would want to read. I never read biographies for instance, so that makes me unable to complete the board. "Making" myself read books I wouldn't normally read is ok, but not when I have to do a lot of them in a year. So I made it so I had a fair chance of finishing the boards. "

I was wondering about that a little. I know I won't be able to complete a couple of the boards (Genres and Mega-mix at a minimum) as they stand now either, with or without my suggestions. For a group challenge that doesn't bother me but you have more say in this than I do.

Do you have other suggestions that would work better for you than the ones I put in?


message 9: by MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Resident Book Pusher (new)

MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 3289 comments Have any of yall played real Bingo before? I mean for money?

If yes, yall might have run into this before: a lot of bingo games are specialized.

It's been a long time but here are some bingo patterns: http://www.gpwa.org/forum/attachment....


message 10: by MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Resident Book Pusher (new)


message 12: by MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Resident Book Pusher (new)

MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 3289 comments Dazrin wrote: "I have not.

Wow.

https://www.bingomania.com/blogimages..."


Ooooh! That's a GREAT one!

So, you don't have to worry about not being able to make Bingo - there's a billion ways to do it

But, are we going to free for all it or do we want to pick designs?


message 13: by Dazrin (new)

Dazrin | 216 comments MrsJoseph wrote: "But, are we going to free for all it or do we want to pick designs?"

It would be fun to track those and others in the thread even if we don't include them in scoring.

From a spreadsheet/scoring perspective, only counting vertical, horizontal, and diagonal is much easier. I could figure out how to do any of these other ones but each variation would add complexity for each board.

Of course, if we don't care about the spreadsheet calculating the score, then that makes is simpler still. :D


message 14: by MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Resident Book Pusher (new)

MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 3289 comments I want both, lol. But what I know about excel = nothing. O_O

What about...special scores for completing it in a fancy way? Or something like that.


message 15: by Dazrin (new)

Dazrin | 216 comments Any other thoughts on this challenge?

Who is planning on using this for next year?


message 16: by DoodlePanda (new)

DoodlePanda | 1179 comments I am, but I'm still not happy with the genre bingo card I think... I dunno how to make it better though. I just want something that I have a chance of completing


message 17: by Orlok (new)

Orlok | 555 comments I'll join in too. I know I wont be able to complete it, but it will be fun just tracking progress.


message 18: by MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Resident Book Pusher (new)

MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 3289 comments I want something I can complete, too.
BUt I'm in no matter what.


message 19: by Dazrin (new)

Dazrin | 216 comments I feel the same way about a couple of the cards...I know I won't be able to finish them.

Do we want to make a list (with the ones there plus a few more) that people can select from for each card? That way we are each doing the same challenge but it is a little more personalized?

It's not like "real" bingo cards are all the same...


message 20: by HomeInMyShoes (new)

HomeInMyShoes | 2605 comments I think only the item and alphabet cards are even remotely achievable for me. But I will keep track.

I think it is okay the way it is.


message 21: by HomeInMyShoes (new)

HomeInMyShoes | 2605 comments So when is the 2018 challenge area opening up?

Just wondering.

I've got some more geography challenges for next year as well.


message 22: by MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Resident Book Pusher (new)

MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 3289 comments HomeInMyShoes wrote: "So when is the 2018 challenge area opening up?

Just wondering.

I've got some more geography challenges for next year as well."


Ask, and ye shall receive.

;-D


message 23: by MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Resident Book Pusher (new)

MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 3289 comments SO: Re 2018 Challenge

Doodles & Darzin will need to finalize what they want it to say/look like and then start the thread with all the rules.

Deadline as of 12-Dec-2017? How does that sound?


message 24: by Dazrin (new)

Dazrin | 216 comments For the score sheet, do we want to make a copy of the template for our own use or have a public sheet with everyone's lists in it like this year?

If we do one sheet, should I randomize the cards so they are all arranged different for everyone?

How about adding a rule that you can change up to (5 | 7 | 10) total items on any of the boards if there is a category that you know you won't complete. For me that would include steamy romance and LBGTQ, possibly one or two more. Knowing I wouldn't be able to complete AYBABTU was a bit of a bummer so having a chance at this one would be nice.


message 25: by MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Resident Book Pusher (new)

MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 3289 comments Dazrin wrote: "For the score sheet, do we want to make a copy of the template for our own use or have a public sheet with everyone's lists in it like this year?

If we do one sheet, should I randomize the cards s..."


- I would like a public sheet... esp if you are willing to make sure we (read: me) don't destroy it, lol.

- I would like randomized cards, too.

- I love this suggestion...but I think it should be made into a challenge, too. Like, you only have X amounts of cards to change out BUT you have to draw them? IDK, still thinking but either way I like this idea!


message 26: by Dazrin (new)

Dazrin | 216 comments No problem on the public sheet, it would basically be the same as this year's, just enter your book and choose your categories for that book. I will keep a separate copy too just in case. :)

Randomized cards is a one time setup thing for me, not a big deal.

MrsJoseph wrote: "I love this suggestion...but I think it should be made into a challenge, too. Like, you only have X amounts of cards to change out BUT you have to draw them? IDK, still thinking but either way I like this idea! "

I would like to hear more of your thoughts about this, I don't quite see where you are headed with it.


message 27: by Orlok (new)

Orlok | 555 comments MrsJoseph wrote: "- I would like a public sheet... esp if you are willing to make sure we (read: me) don't destroy it, lol.

- I would like randomized cards, too."


I agree, I like seeing the public list, and randomisation. I also like the idea of being able to change a number of them to suit me (maybe 10) so that there's a better chance of achieving them.


message 28: by Dazrin (new)

Dazrin | 216 comments I hit post then had another thought..

How about if you replace a category you lose one point, so if you replace 5 categories, your maximum score would be 295.

It could also be an increasing scale. Replace 1 or 2 and it is 1 point each, replace 3 or 4 and it is 2 points for each of them, etc. So, replacing 5 would be 9 points (2x1 + 2x2 + 1x3) off.

Incentive to leave things alone but if that absolutely won't work you can change things and sacrifice a few points.

I want to hear from DoodlePanda on this too; she came up with the challenge so I really want whatever we do to be in line with her original vision.


message 29: by Orlok (new)

Orlok | 555 comments Dazrin wrote: "I hit post then had another thought..

How about if you replace a category you lose one point, so if you replace 5 categories, your maximum score would be 295.

It could also be an increasing scal..."


I'd go along with that, as long as the points reduction wasn't too punitive :)


message 30: by DoodlePanda (new)

DoodlePanda | 1179 comments I'd like a public list too, and randomization seems good :D

I also like the option of changing things to make it more likely to be able to complete the challenge! I find its more fun when you know you have a chance to complete it.
Having points deducted seems ok with me if people agree? Or we could have something like you can change 2 on each board for free, anything after that will cost you points? I'm not too bothered about how that will work, but like I said i like the option to change things so that everyone can complete it if they want to :)


message 31: by HomeInMyShoes (new)

HomeInMyShoes | 2605 comments One public list is nice.

I like category substitution, but I'm going to suggest just have everyone suggest three alternate categories for each card except the alphabet card. Then everyone can switch up to ten categories in total from any combination of cards they want from the lists of alternates that were suggested. No point penalties so it is easy to tabulate, but there's only so many switches usable.

There's a lot of ground to cover. People need to read a minimum of 44 books to complete the challenge which is the same as last year, but it will be more difficult to cover all cards with a book. It took me 58 books to cover 88 categories in AYBABTU (assuming I finish Growth of the Soil to complete it) and I'd place the over/under at about 65 books to complete all the cards if one is diligent in picking books to cover multiple cards.


message 32: by Dazrin (new)

Dazrin | 216 comments RE: tabulation of deductions, checking how many categories have been changed and adding penalty points is not a big deal so don't worry about that work - I will make it automatically calculate any deductions. So far I haven't seen anything suggested for this that that I couldn't get working fairly quickly. (Sorry Mrs J, I still haven't figured out a way to get lots of different Bingo conditions programmed in easily.)

That said, either a pre-selected list of alternates with a max # or a free-for-all replacement system with a max #/board then deductions will work for me.

I think my slight preference is a combination of the two: free-for-all with a cap of about 8 (2 per board except the alphabet but used anywhere) and not bothering with deductions. I am not much of a planner about what I read, so having some wiggle-room for unplanned categories would be helpful to me. Acts as the "Easy" category from this year.


message 33: by HomeInMyShoes (new)

HomeInMyShoes | 2605 comments To summarize, everyone picks their own substituion categories for whichever eight items they want and they could all be on the mega card. Seems reasonable to me.

I don't even think the penalty needs to be very big because I think Dazrin and Orlok can probably do this now that I've looked at it more closely. I think I can even give it a pretty good go within an eight swap limit.

Are there any stipulations on what one can do with the swapping? Genre is fairly difficult in limited ideas and I'm wondering if someone switched out four genre categories and called them all non-fiction and read a bunch of biographies. Is that fair or should all the items within a bingo card be distinct? So Non-Fiction and Memoir would not be duplications even if one read the memoirs for both.


message 34: by MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Resident Book Pusher (new)

MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 3289 comments HomeInMyShoes wrote: "To summarize, everyone picks their own substituion categories for whichever eight items they want and they could all be on the mega card. Seems reasonable to me.

I don't even think the penalty ne..."


I agree with this.

Plus, unless you are doing a "genre-specific card" I can't see swapping out a Non-fic for a Romance and then having a whole card full of Romance.

I think the cards should still have some kind of diversity.


message 35: by Dazrin (new)

Dazrin | 216 comments It would help if all categories are unique but I think the replacement categories could be as specific or generic as you want/need. That precedent has been set already (Sci-Fi > Dystopian, etc.)

Agreed that Non-Fiction and Memoir are unique even if you read a memoir for both.


message 36: by DoodlePanda (new)

DoodlePanda | 1179 comments I think the genres should be different, but could be quite specific. That way you could for instance read several sci-fi books, but differentiate them with different genres within sci-fi. If that makes sense?
And non-fiction and memoir is definitely different, and you can read a memior as non-fiction if you want :)

8 swaps with no penalties seems good to me :D


message 37: by DoodlePanda (new)

DoodlePanda | 1179 comments For the record, the items to find in the "can you find this while Reading" card can also be quite loosely used. I can't remember whats on the card now (I'm at work), but "water" could be the sea, glass of water, teardrop/crying, rain. So I think that Bingo card should be ok to Complete if you use a little imagination ;)


message 38: by HomeInMyShoes (new)

HomeInMyShoes | 2605 comments Okay, make them distinct, but they could be increasingly specific.

I've already made a bingo card and identified potential swap categories. Some of those in the Mega card are just way too specific. How close does a character need to be my age. Seriously. Nobody is 47 in a book. Nobody. How does one even find a book like that?

I have managed to find a non-US zombie book.


message 39: by MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Resident Book Pusher (new)

MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 3289 comments DoodlePanda wrote: "I think the genres should be different, but could be quite specific. That way you could for instance read several sci-fi books, but differentiate them with different genres within sci-fi. If that makes sense?"

This is what I was thinking


message 40: by MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Resident Book Pusher (new)

MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 3289 comments OR

We could do extra credit. What about genre-specific cards? But this would be in addition to whatever your main card(s) is. And since it would be extra credit, I think all the books from your main card could apply.

So, if we use Romance as an example:

Romance - Urban
Romance - Fantasy
Romance - PNR (which is different than fantasy)
Romance - Erotic
Romance - BDSM
Romance - Historical
Romance - Science Fiction
Romance - Dystopian
Romance - Mystery
Romance - Thriller
Romance - Zombie (yes, this does exist and yes, I have one)
(etc)


message 41: by HomeInMyShoes (new)

HomeInMyShoes | 2605 comments I'm not goinig there. Too much genre hairsplitting already for me.

Does author under 30 mean that the author was under 30 years old when they wrote the book or are we looking for currently young authors?


message 42: by DoodlePanda (new)

DoodlePanda | 1179 comments Under 30 when they wrote it, at least thats what i was thinking when I added it :)


message 43: by DoodlePanda (last edited Dec 05, 2017 08:39AM) (new)

DoodlePanda | 1179 comments HomeInMyShoes wrote: "Okay, make them distinct, but they could be increasingly specific.

I've already made a bingo card and identified potential swap categories. Some of those in the Mega card are just way too specific..."


Within 10 years? Or a character in their 40s? Potentially we could do a main character over 50 or something like that instead?

Grats on the zombie book :D


message 44: by HomeInMyShoes (last edited Dec 05, 2017 08:49AM) (new)

HomeInMyShoes | 2605 comments I actually just found a book with a main character 47 years old, author from Ireland, starts with O and the cover has two or more people on it. And it's only 240 pages. I'd totally swap it out if we switched the category since O is a fairly easy letter and I'm sure I could knock something else off, but if not it is definitely on the reading list.

My google-fu is pretty top notch right now. Author with first name has me totally stumped. The options there are terrilble. The best I've found so far is that Dean Koontz wrote early books under the name Aaron Wolfe.


message 45: by DoodlePanda (new)

DoodlePanda | 1179 comments HomeInMyShoes wrote: "I actually just found a book with a main character 47 years old, author from Ireland, starts with O and the cover has two or more people on it. And it's only 240 pages. I'd totally swap it out if w..."

W could change it to an author with your name, that way people could choose whether to use first name or last name i guess? It's going to be pretty impossible for be either way...
Or maybe even author OR character with your name?


message 46: by Dazrin (new)

Dazrin | 216 comments Ok, I have updated the graph with the max 8 changes option. Take a look here: 2018 Group Challenge Spreadsheet

I changed the colors and added some more conditional formatting. If you want to change the colors on your tab, feel free. Really the only parts you need to be careful of are the white cells below and to the right of each board. If you want help, let me know (probably in the official thread.) And please let me know if you see anything wrong.

If you make a change, such as changing a category you didn't mean to, you can look at the original categories on the Template tab.


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