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General Chit-Chat Part 2!
Joan wrote: "Should I stop using Wordpress? Sandy Hook is practically my home town & conspiracy theorists cause so much pain simply for their own enjoyment.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/13/bu......"
I have difficulty comprehending how sick and cruel these conspiracy theorists are and I think we should not support the companies who enable them.
And democracy is all about many 'insignificant' individuals joining together to create a significant group.
Karin wrote: "Yes, give up wordpress if what some of the bloggers print is that inane and upsetting! I don't read blogs in general much anymore.Freedom of the press means lies get printed, and not just these i..."
I find your Professor’s point unpersuasive because the social media sites are PROFITING from the misinformation- They claim to be merely providing space for the free exchange of ideas - but that is disingenuous - they make money through advertising and selling user profiles - sensational misinformation increases traffic and thus increases profits. So they are more like snake oil salesmen or con-artists peddling misinformation.
I agree that censorship can be a dangerous tool, but so too is misinformation that undermines the social contract.
Perhaps we should demand that defective products be improved or removed from the marketplace - and really aren’t social media sites a product?
Twitter says they have blocked him for a week. Big deal. I can imagine how much teitter is bringing in on advertising since you know who is running our country by Twitter. I dropped all other sites, years ago. Am only on this one, and do not have a blog.
Totally agree , Diane. I’ve never been on Facebook, Twitter, etc. Goodreads is it for me too.
I feel naive. I don’t follow blogs either and GR is the only social media I use. I’d thought Wordpress was a credible information source, so if it showed up in a Google Search, I followed the link.
It’s seems it is getting harder and harder to tell which sites to trust and information companies that try to check the facts can’t get people to put value on that work.
Wordpress is just a blogging platform where anyone can write whatever they want. I've been writing a "literary" blog for 13 years and moved it to Wordpress many years ago. I've even had someone commenting under a review on my blog "Is this even a review? So anyone can write a review in here, can't they?" So basically yes, anyone can write a blog. However, even though I in no way agree with censorship, I still think fake news and hoaxes should be stopped and, yes, censored. A hoax is not an opinion, it is something serious. I can't wake up one morning and start saying a major terrorist attack never happened, just as a way of example. This is not an opinion. And it should be stopped.
Any interesting link/example which describes how Fiction/Rumour/Conspiracy Theory becomes Fact on social media:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/he...
Joan wrote: "Karin wrote: "Yes, give up wordpress if what some of the bloggers print is that inane and upsetting! I don't read blogs in general much anymore.Freedom of the press means lies get printed, and no..."
First off, I have to mention that the history of thought, information and science are areas of interest of mine and have been for many years. Plus philosophy.
Once the mainstream media stops all disinformation, then we can work on the other media. I've witnessed mainstream media twisting things to tell an entirely different story than what actually happened--it was actually quite shocking as I was only 19 and had been accepting the newspaper as factual since I started reading it at age 10.
My main point is that there are blatant lies told in virtually all media, and that there is no way to stop it AND protect the freedom of the press. My professor was brilliant and I have not done justice to her argument. While most conspiracy theories are bogus and some downright hurtful, there are a few that are factual, so if we ban all of them how will the factual ones ever see the light of day? It's better to boycot than to ban many times.
There is also a somewhat different, but related, issue with peer review in science. This is not that helpful as this sort of thing would have prevented many major new theories and finds from ever being printed. Einstein, Copernicus and many others over time would never have passed. It suppresses things that question mainstream theory, and as we all know, theory is not proven fact. While it's easy, in hindsight, so see that these theories were wrongly suppressed, those that are suppressing new ones today are no better than those who would have or did suppress others. Further testing helps reveal the validity or possibility of a new theory far better than peer review.
Also, the NY Times, like every other major news outlet, has a bias. What many readers may not realize is how the media in the States (and other places) has been bought out by only a handful of mega companies which means it's easier to make a bias seem like the norm. This began in a big way about 100 years ago, and is easily verified. Editors are hired to promote the view of the owners/corporations. This isn't a conspiracy theory, but a fact. While I disagree with the vast majority of garbage on the internet and avoid blogs for the most part, I am not opposed the that last bastion of freedom to write anything that is not illegal vitriol.
Interesting points Karin, thanks for sharing your view. I suppose society has long struggled with truth vs fiction, thus giving us superstition, false idols, and Trollop’s Barsetshire Chronicles (at least one of those is full of political dirty tricks).
Joan wrote: "I feel naive. I don’t follow blogs either and GR is the only social media I use. I’d thought Wordpress was a credible information source, so if it showed up in a Google Search, I followed the lin..."
Joan, GR is my only social media too. You are not alone.
This is my only social media contact as well. I do, however, agree with Karin. Once you start restricting what is written it is only a short step to a complete loss of freedom. It is so easy for something to become "normal", it has happened before and will happen again. I also believe it is up to the reader to search out facts if they suspect a story is bogus.. Once we let someone tell us what to think, or to censor what we read we are on the short road to a dictatorship, Just my opinion.
If a company says they won’t sell/profit from unsubstantiated accusations is that necessarily censorship- I don’t think it has to lead to dictatorship by Twitter, for example. Sometimes I think that Facebook, Twitter & Instagram have to accept some responsibility for selling hysteria that has lead to modern day pogroms in some countries. They are highly profitable companies vending this stuff - they could make more of an effort to hire cyber security experts to improve their algorithms.
Joan wrote: "If a company says they won’t sell/profit from unsubstantiated accusations is that necessarily censorship- I don’t think it has to lead to dictatorship by Twitter, for example. Sometimes I think tha..."I think that it's okay for advertisers to pick and choose, but a pubic blogging platform is not the same thing.
Every major media outlet already has a bias that is exhibited by what and how they report, and I'm not saying we should stop it, but I always look at more than one (so, say, ABC and FOX) if I want to see more than one side.
When I was homeschooling I always checked both the liberal and conservative stuff and usually only called my political representative when both sides agreed because then it was generally a real threat to homeschooling.
I do see the importance of protecting opinion pieces but Twitter reported income of $711 million and $100 million in profit in the first quarter of this year while doing very little to prevent falsified news such as photos from Bangladesh in 1979 labeled as Rohingya terrorists in 2017. The faked photos inflamed tensions in a region torn by ethnic fighting - The UN estimates >40,000 refugees, thousands killed, and burned out villages.Twitter is making a profit and so, I think, can afford to spend more on quality control. There are plenty of hackers and students of computer & forensic sciences in the world looking for jobs - Twitter just has to pony up and hire them.
What if the blogging platforms & social media companies invested in solutions instead of drawing dichotomies.
What if they developed codes of ethics more like journalists & legacy media companies - in legacy media the editorials, analysis, layouts and article selection may be driven by bias but they don’t knowingly misreport facts.
Joan wrote: "The faked photos inflamed tensions in a region torn by ethnic fighting - The UN estimates >40,000 refugees, thousands killed, and burned out villages."That is so shocking.
B the BookAddict wrote: "Joan wrote: "The faked photos inflamed tensions in a region torn by ethnic fighting - The UN estimates >40,000 refugees, thousands killed, and burned out villages."That is so shocking."
It certainly is, but not an isolated event https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-4...
Joan wrote: "I do see the importance of protecting opinion pieces but Twitter reported income of $711 million and $100 million in profit in the first quarter of this year while doing very little to prevent fals..."False reports and information are as old as humankind, and at least some people have always fallen for this. We didn't need any online platforms for urban legends and other junk to pass around when I was growing up. It happened verbally and with newspapers like the National Enquirer (it wasn't the only one). And the mainstream media. I remember as a little girl watching my mother get very upset and worried about her pregnant sister because a disaster was greatly exaggerated and lied about (not sure where the information breakdown occurred) on mainstream media and there was no internet to double check.
People can learn to use Snopes and other places for much of this now if they want to, but often people don't want to, they want to believe what they prefer to believe despite facts. I see misinformation and fallacies printed on vaccinations all of the time. For just one vaccination fallacy example, and on autism, but there are some people who still want to believe that vaccinations cause autism despite numerous studies proving there is no link (and I have friends with 3 autistic children who bang their heads against the wall at this sort of thing, too, and know another family with 2 autistic kids and only one got vaccinated, etc).
Before online, we had things like the National Enquirer to give outlandish false tales and lies about thigns and they made a profit. Twitter won't work as twitter if they do that. Twitter is not a reliable source of information given it's format. I don't bother much with it, although I tried it for a while. Virtually any online platform makes a profit, so then we are handing censorship to big business, which to me is shades of 1984, which was also run by big business. And if we're each person who wants censorship wants it to line up with their beliefs in one way, shape or another.
I recant! My 7 year-old grandson just asked me to join his class social media site so I can keep up even though we are far apart - so now I’ve two social media addictions :-)
Joan wrote: "I recant! My 7 year-old grandson just asked me to join his class social media site so I can keep up even though we are far apart - so now I’ve two social media addictions :-)"That is so very nice that he wanted you to join!
Nice post Karin. You've said it all. The problem we have today is that information gets out to so many so quickly. Call someone a "crook" often enough and people begin to believe it. Today more than ever, people have to decide what's important and then look into it in depth. That takes time and effort, so people take the easy way out. They believe what they hear if they hear it often enough.
Chrissie wrote: "Joan wrote: "I recant! My 7 year-old grandson just asked me to join his class social media site so I can keep up even though we are far apart - so now I’ve two social media addictions :-)"That is..."
Yes it is sweet of him to think of me - as I’m sure you know the age when they enjoy talking to Granny is precious- I wonder how it will be when they are teenagers.
Joan wrote: "I recant! My 7 year-old grandson just asked me to join his class social media site so I can keep up even though we are far apart - so now I’ve two social media addictions :-)"That's awesome!!! It's one of the things I like about modern technology. So much easier to connect with children than by snail mail which takes so long...
Joan, being a grandparent is very different from being the parent. It is nice experiencing both. You get another perspective. I think it is very important to blend generations.
Karin wrote: "Joan wrote: "I do see the importance of protecting opinion pieces but Twitter reported income of $711 million and $100 million in profit in the first quarter of this year while doing very little to..."Norton & Karin
What do you think of the FaceBook decision to ban those Myanmar military officers?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-my...
Seems like FB hasa tough road ahead.
Joan, If your 7 yr. old grandson asked you in take advantage of it. You'll be out by the time he reaches 12 or 13.
Joan wrote: "Karin wrote: "Joan wrote: "I do see the importance of protecting opinion pieces but Twitter reported income of $711 million and $100 million in profit in the first quarter of this year while doing ..."I am not against Facebook choosing to ban something, and have never stated that a private company can't or shouldn't ban content from their own site. What I said is I don't think that a blogging platform has to ban opinions you or I disagree with even if they contradict the facts or hurt our feelings because of freedom of the press and opinion means there are people who will have opinions that upset us. I avoid sites that make me upset and angry.
But banning videos of crime such as real rape, murder, suicide, etc, yes, by all means because those are illegal acts.
This isn't the first thing Facebook has banned, and I doubt it will be the last.
I think that this is harder to see because we have grown up with freedom of the pres s. My grandparents had to escape the Russian revolutions and saw the damage that not having it caused. My philosophy professor made valid points, but I realize that most people don't think like philosophers--they are often the most open to different ideas, but then sometimes very closed--an entirely different mindset from most!
Mod
Sorry to know that, Alannah. I hope you'll get better soon!
Alannah, hope you are better now .
Mod
Welcome back Alannah- I’m glad to hear you are feeling better. Take it easy. Don’t overdo and strain yourself trying to get caught up.
Alannah wrote: "Thank you, feeling a lot better but 100% so may still be a little inactive. But I just wanted to pop on to update everything."I'm glad you're feeling better and hope you feel even better soon. Take good care of yourself.
Karin you raise a difficult issue. Should you ban opinion based on false (facts) information? Freedom of speech is essential to a democracy. But in today's world information spreads so fast. Looking into the facts takes time and effort. Unfortunately, to few are willing to put in the time or effort. So if something is repeated enough, even if it's false, people beli r ve it. It becomes a tactic. That's what's happening today. The President makes false statements all the time and keeps rep repeating them. People believe him. I agree. You have to have freedom of speech but does that entitle you to make false statements on a private network. The real issue is "Did the person making the statement know it was false." I don't think it's an answerable question which puts the burden back on the people....
I believe lies are now called alternative facts.
It's the grandee's half-day off from school, grade Prep, and we look after her from 12.30 to 5pm. Last week, we decided to teach her to make scones, but this child's mother is a qualified chef so no instruction was needed. They were delicious and she was very proud as she'd made them from start to finish, by herself.We'll have to raise the bar today. Had hopes of lighting our big bonfire but I've woken to rain so that plan might be thwarted. Have to put our thinking caps on.
Sounds fun, B. You were in desperate need of rain though if I remember correctly.
Rain shows up when it is least convenient. Like snow, I'm still waiting for it to just land on the lawns and leave the pavement clear.
Regional accents lead to a funny side effect of my grandson’s school social media page:The teacher records and posts him sounding out vowel sounds & words as he learns to read. I live 1700 miles away and the differences in pronunciation are glaringly obvious. I probably wouldn’t notice in conversation.
Norton wrote: "Karin you raise a difficult issue. Should you ban opinion based on false (facts) information? Freedom of speech is essential to a democracy. But in today's world information spreads so fast. Lookin..."In one day an entire 25 mile area in BC heard that my still living dad had died of a heart attack in 1975. Believe me, this is nothing new. A year later people were sure that I joined my parents in the States because I was pregnant (also not true--I didn't get pregnant until I was in my 30s) even though my sister also joined them and it had been the plan all along.
I have seen newspapers lie as early as 1979, too, so yes, freedom of press means lies will get printed. I see this all the time in the vaccine issue.
Joan wrote: "Regional accents lead to a funny side effect of my grandson’s school social media page:The teacher records and posts him sounding out vowel sounds & words as he learns to read. I live 1700 miles a..."
That's funny! My kids have the local accent, and in it people take the Norwegian name, Bjorn (the j sounds like a y) and turn it into a 2 syllable name, but also take out the tt's in mitten and kitten and use a glottal stop there.
Norton wrote: "Karin you raise a difficult issue. Should you ban opinion based on false (facts) information? Freedom of speech is essential to a democracy. But in today's world information spreads so fast. Lookin..."And, yes, all presidents use this tactic. I have NEVER liked Trump becuase he basically worships money and is a jerk, even before he entered politics, but an African American man I knoww pointed out one of Obama's lies to me.
It is very, very rare to find a politician who doesnt lie or at least blatantly twist the facts.
Yes, Diane, we still do need the rain as we've had very little over the winter. We need to have the underground 90,000 litre water tank full to capacity for the summertime.The big bonfire was too damp to light but the rain held off long enough for us to take our grandee to the big playground for an hour. Played board games, did some colouring-in, then ran around the garden. Both grand-aunties then suggested we watch Walt Disney cartoons; the old ones with Sylvester the Cat, Roadrunner and Foghorn Leghorn.
Arghhh! My step-daughter and her wife have decided not to evacuate from Charleston SC- they are very smart women so I trust they know best but it’s scary.
Joan, it’s always a worry with family in the path of these hurricanes. I have family in Florida and when there is a hurricane their way , I worry too. Hoping that your stepdaughter and her wife will be safe !
Joan wrote: "Arghhh! My step-daughter and her wife have decided not to evacuate from Charleston SC- they are very smart women so I trust they know best but it’s scary."What are their reasons? Are they prepared to evacuate quickly if they change their minds?
Joan wrote: "Arghhh! My step-daughter and her wife have decided not to evacuate from Charleston SC- they are very smart women so I trust they know best but it’s scary."Maybe there is a shelter they can reach easily? I have a friend in North Caroline and she doesn't evacuate neither; but I think she lives in the inland. And her son that is further North and on the coast can't go away because they are already without fuel. But at least there's a shelter they can reach easily. I hope this hurricane will slow down on the sea so everyone is safe.
Joan wrote: "Arghhh! My step-daughter and her wife have decided not to evacuate from Charleston SC- they are very smart women so I trust they know best but it’s scary."It is almost more worrying from afar because you don't have the accurate facts on which to make a judgement. Hope they are OK.
Hope they whether the storm okay, Joan. My son's in laws have decided to stay put in Myrtle Beach.
It’s good to hear about other folks that are weathering the storm. As Esther pointed out, being far away I don’t have all the facts. All I know is that they are smart, analytical and never reckless. Still, I have to pry my eyes away from the Weather Channel :-/When their careers took them to Charleston, South Carolina, I knew they’d face hurricanes regularly - but I wish they didn’t live on the coast.
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Freedom of the press means lies get printed, and not just these inane and hurtful Sandy Hook conspiracy lies, either. Sadly, it's not limited to blogs and private things, either. I avoid sites that get me that riled up all the time.
But after an excellent talk with one of my professors in university I realized that we either have freedom of the press or we get a line that gets tightened too much--of course, some things are illegal to print, but we were discussing pornography which with and without clothing is the complete objectification of a human or humans for the sexual gratification of another. I'm against all of it, but if we try and pass too many laws, pretty soon art of nudes that isn't pornographic will be outlawed, etc.