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Additions to Librarian Manual > Discrepancy in the Manual

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Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6778 comments Regarding commas or not commas for series in the title.

The manual displays differently in two places.

Book Title

displays adding series in the title without commas.

Examples of series mirrored in titles:
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (Harry Potter #1)
Among the Living (PsyCop #1)


However, if you use your browser's find feature and look for "series" the format is as:

Series information may be included in the title field as well, so feel free to add your series title in. You should follow this format:

Title (Series, #1)
The White Queen (The Cousins’ War, #1)


I understand the comma may or may not be used. However, if either is correct, the manual should say so. If only one is correct, the manual should be consistent.


message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

+1

TY


message 3: by Dobby (new)

Dobby (dobby0390) | 4014 comments Yes, please!


message 4: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13747 comments +1

Plus I've noticed that hyperlinks concerning the same field link to different, incomplete information. See these examples for the author field:

https://www.goodreads.com/help/show/4...
https://www.goodreads.com/help/show/2...

The first part of both is the same, but then they diverge. The first link has information on spaces for disambiguation, and the second one has information on the sort by and shelf display fields.

Both should be exactly the same. It is very confusing the way it is now. I spend a lot of time searching for things that I know are somewhere in the manual, but can't be found under the expected links.


message 5: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13747 comments I found another discrepancy in the manual, concerning the sorting of authors with titles.

https://www.goodreads.com/help/show/2...

Scrolling down, under "Author Sort-by Name and Shelf Display Name" - 'Titles' (just above "Author pseudonyms/pen names") it says

Authors whose titles are kept to avoid confusion should be sorted under their first name:

pope francis
pope john paul i
pope john paul ii
elizabeth ii, queen
,

which is wrong.

If you click on the "Author Sort-by Name and Shelf Display Name" hyperlink, however, the names are sorted correctly:

francis, pope
john paul i, pope
john paul ii, pope
elizabeth ii, queen

(https://www.goodreads.com/help/show/4..., bottom of the page)

Please correct the first link.


message 6: by Vernice (last edited Oct 24, 2017 12:49AM) (new)

Vernice (fictionfantastic) | 52 comments #1 Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Regarding commas or not commas for series in the title.

The manual displays differently in two places..."


I've updated this so that both places doesn't display any comma's. As mentioned on this page, our preference is no comma's, as that is how series information is displayed on the book page. However, the use of a comma is allowed, as this information is often imported, and we realize that going back and changing all book titles with a comma in the series information is unrealistic. So using both is okay. See this section:

(Use the same conventions for series numbering in titles as is used in the series object.) Previous conventions used a comma after the series name and before the number; this is also acceptable.

#4 lethe wrote: "+1

Plus I've noticed that hyperlinks concerning the same field link to different, incomplete information. See these examples for the author field..."


Thanks for pointing this out! I'm working on consolidating the information and will update the manual accordingly.

#5 lethe wrote: "I found another discrepancy in the manual, concerning the sorting of authors with titles..."

I've fixed this!


message 7: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13747 comments Great, thanks Vernice!


message 8: by Dobby (new)

Dobby (dobby0390) | 4014 comments Yes, thank you!


Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6778 comments Thanks, Vernice!


message 10: by Alison (new)

Alison | 883 comments Re message 6 on commas in titles in a series: I had been unaware of Goodreads' preference for no commas because the popup hint when you are editing a title has a comma. It would be great if that comma could be removed. Also, while someone is editing it, "parenthesis" should be "parentheses." Thanks!



message 11: by Jonathan (new)

Jonathan Lamarre | 17 comments Alison wrote: "Re message 6 on commas in titles in a series: I had been unaware of Goodreads' preference for no commas because the popup hint when you are editing a title has a comma. It would be great if that comma could be removed. Also, while someone is editing it, "parenthesis" should be "parentheses." Thanks!."

Relevant. +1


message 12: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 43545 comments Mod
Both with and without the comma are fine.


message 13: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13747 comments But it would be nice if there was consistency. The preference nowadays is for no commas, so that should be reflected in the pop-up.


message 14: by Dobby (new)

Dobby (dobby0390) | 4014 comments +1


Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6778 comments rivka wrote: "Both with and without the comma are fine."

Perhaps both can then be shown in the manual. I have seen librarians going to the effort of changing them when that is the only thing they are editing.


message 16: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13747 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Perhaps both can then be shown in the manual. I have seen librarians going to the effort of changing them when that is the only thing they are editing."

Yes, I've seen that too.


message 17: by Dobby (new)

Dobby (dobby0390) | 4014 comments As have I.


message 18: by Melanie (new)

Melanie (mvalente89) | 1763 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "rivka wrote: "Both with and without the comma are fine."

Perhaps both can then be shown in the manual. I have seen librarians going to the effort of changing them when that is the only thing they ..."


Honestly, I'm sometimes guilty of doing this. For example, if 6 editions don't have the comma and 1 edition does, I will remove the comma from the 1 edition for consistency.


message 19: by Hannah (new)

Hannah (bookwormhannah) | 196 comments Sorry, guys. I have been careful to use a comma because of the pop-up. (I'm not going in just to add a comma, but it looks like I may be making more work for y'all.)


message 20: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13747 comments Hannah wrote: "Sorry, guys. I have been careful to use a comma because of the pop-up. (I'm not going in just to add a comma, but it looks like I may be making more work for y'all.)"

Not your fault, since Goodreads gives conflicting instructions.


Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6778 comments Hannah wrote: "Sorry, guys. I have been careful to use a comma because of the pop-up. (I'm not going in just to add a comma, but it looks like I may be making more work for y'all.)"

Nobody is making extra work. As Rivka says, with or without is fine, so nothing needs to be changed/edited.


message 22: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 43545 comments Mod
Melanie wrote: "For example, if 6 editions don't have the comma and 1 edition does, I will remove the comma from the 1 edition for consistency."

Which is fine. So is changing some of the parts of a series to match others.


message 23: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13747 comments I do get annoyed when a librarian changes Series Name #xx to Series Name, #xx in all the title fields.

(I get less annoyed by librarians changing them the other way around, since that is the preferred notation now, but it is still unnecessary work.)


Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6778 comments lethe wrote: "I do get annoyed when a librarian changes Series Name #xx to Series Name, #xx in all the title fields.

(I get less annoyed by librarians changing them the other way around, since that is the prefe..."


I get annoyed when they are changed. Period. There no reason to remove the comma.


message 25: by lethe (new)

lethe | 13747 comments Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "There no reason to remove the comma."

Or add it. Yet a lot of librarians think there should be a comma, due to the popup.


message 26: by Elizabeth (Alaska) (last edited Jan 24, 2018 10:52AM) (new)

Elizabeth (Alaska) | 6778 comments lethe wrote: "Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "There no reason to remove the comma."

Or add it. Yet a lot of librarians think there should be a comma, due to the popup."


Yes - no reason to change it - except in the case of like the comment above about changing so that there is consistency. I may not have been looking at that aspect.


message 27: by Hannah (new)

Hannah (bookwormhannah) | 196 comments Yes to the extra work. There is SO much to do around here (public domain and Mills and Boon would keep us all busy for a decade) that spending time doing and undoing commas alone is rather a wasted effort.


message 28: by L J (new)

L J | 18 comments When adding series to title where other editions already have series added I tend look at most popular edition and comma/no comma to match.


message 29: by Emy (new)

Emy (emypt) | 5034 comments I mostly remove commas when fixing sorting order - it's often quicker if I'm doing a large amount of work to just remove a comma so the automatic process fixes the sorting box, rather than manually editing the box... I also add for the same reason. Yes, I prefer consistency, but I accept that without an AACR(1/2/3) equivalent, we have flexibility here.


message 30: by Philip (new)

Philip (burnnerman) | 5913 comments I have been known to remove commas, but only when I am working an a bunch of books and some titles have commas and some don't. I like it to be consistent. If all editions of a book have the comma I usually leave it alone, unless all the other books in the series don't have it, then I will remove it to make that book consistent with the other books in the series.


message 31: by Empress (new)

Empress (the_empress) I also want to see this fixed.


message 32: by annob (new)

annob | 1615 comments +1


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