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Harry Bosch series wrong numbering
message 51:
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Percaso
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Dec 10, 2017 01:38PM
@lethe, @Jonetta, I removed the note as suggested by you. thx
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Percaso wrote: "@Mulholland and @Jonetta: the main Harry Bosch series is updated. All other series like Harry Bosch Universe or Mickey Haller are unchanged. Link to series: https://www.goodreads.com/series/40769-h..."Belatedly, thank you thank you thank you! And I'm glad we have both the official HB series and the HB Universe series as distinct reading lists.
Hi. I have some suggestions for the ordering of the short stories/collections that are included in the HB and HBU series listings. I thought about this a while back but decided to wait until the ordering for the full-length novels was all settled.Blue on Black (HB 14.5, HBU 18.5): A Bosch/Rachel Walling short story that takes place between The Overlook (HB 13, HBU 16) and The Reversal (HBU 21). The number in HB seems correct, but perhaps based on publication date it should come immediately before The Reversal in HBU (i.e. 20.5). Unless, of course, there is some story element that would place it before The Scarecrow (HBU 19), but I don't know of any.
Switchblade (HB 16.5, HBU 22.5): 16.5 appears correct for the HB series, but that would place it between The Black Box (24) and The Burning Room (26) in HBU. Since its publication date is after The Gods of Guilt (25), maybe 25.5 makes more sense.
Suicide Run: Three Harry Bosch Stories (HB 15.1, HBU 16.1); Angle of Investigation (HB 15.2, HBU 16.2); Mulholland Drive (HBU 16.3):
These are all collections of three short stories, which individually are chronologically scattered throughout the series. So my suggestion is to go by publication date and fix the numbering to be consistent between the two listings. The relevant dates are:
Nine Dragons (HB 14, HBU 20): 10/13/2009
The Reversal (HBU 21): 2010
The Fifth Witness (HBU 22): 4/5/2011
Suicide Run: 10/1/2011
Angle of Investigation: 11/1/2011
The Drop (HB 15, HBU 23): 11/28/2011
Mulholland Dive: 9/4/2012
The Black Box (HB 16, HBU 24): 11/26/2012
That would make Suicide Run 14.1 and 22.1; Angle of Investigation 14.2 and 22.2; Mulholland Dive 23.1 (or 23.5?). Or, perhaps the dates are close enough and it would make sense to keep all three together, and just call Mulholland Drive 22.3.
Thanks.
I’m not clear. Are you suggesting to use the publication date in all circumstances, even if the story timeline suggests otherwise?
No, but it's not really possible to use the story timelines for the ones that are collections (Suicide Run, Angle of Investigation, and Mulholland Dive). The individual stories in those collections are scattered throughout the overall timeline (see here) .Blue on Black and Switchblade are each one short story, so I'm suggesting to use the story timeline for those (which I believe is the same as pub order), although for the HBU series there are multiple places each one could fit because of non-HB books in between the HB books. So for example, go by publication date to place Switchblade after The Gods of Guilt, since Harry Bosch doesn't appear in The Gods of Guilt.
The guidelines say for collections we are to number the books within the collection with each of the book series numbers so I think they’re correctly titled. Sorry to be so clueless but I’m not understanding your request.
That's ok, I realize it's a bunch of suggestions at once and sometimes I'm too wordy for my own good. I don't think I understand what you're saying about the guidelines for the collections, but maybe it would be easier to go one at a time, starting with the non-collection ones.Switchblade (HB 16.5, HBU 22.5): 16.5 appears correct for the HB series, but that would place it between The Black Box (24) and The Burning Room (26) in HBU. Since its publication date is after The Gods of Guilt (25), maybe 25.5 makes more sense.
Okay, I’ll blame this on me not paying attention!I never updated the HBU series listing for the short stories after all the changes made to HB. I’ll try to get to it this weekend.
My apologies for being so dense.
No worries, thank you. I thought about bringing it up back then but I figured it best to wait because it was confusing and controversial enough just getting the novels straight. I thought of it this week when I noticed that some of the numbering in the edition titles didn't match up with even the current numbering for the series.Let me know if any of my suggestions for the others don't make sense.
Does Mulholland Dive really belong in the HBU series? I admit that I haven't read any of the stories yet, but was curious about how they're connected given that they don't feature Harry Bosch. From the description, it appears that they're set in L.A. and feature police and/or crime, but are there any other specific connections? For example, Chasing the Dime has some appearances by minor characters from other Bosch books, and supposedly an "unnamed cameo" by Bosch himself, but is not included in the Universe series.
In all honesty, another member added the short stories. I haven’t read any of them, which is one of the reasons I’ve not hurried to add them to the Universe series listing. The descriptions weren’t always helpful and I just don’t have any way to offer an opinion.
There's enough info in the short stories to place them within the overall timeline. The discussion I referred to above (which I think you originally told me about) has a listing which includes them. Of course, that lists the individual stories, and doesn't help with where to place the collections.The Mulholland Dive collection is only 50-some pages total, and I've been planning on reading it anyway. I'll let you know what I find.
I read the three stories in Mulholland Dive last night. As far as I can tell, there's no connection to any characters in any of the Harry Bosch universe. The first story is set in 1932. It's possible one of the others contained some obscure connection to a minor character I didn't recognize, but I don't believe that's the case. Other than similar locations and entities such as the LAPD, I don't think this belongs in either the HB or the HBU series.
Thanks, Jeff. I’ve removed it from the HBU series. It wasn’t listed in HB.
I was checking on this and thought I'd take a stab at re-writing those suggestions a little more concisely. Here goes...Switchblade (currently HB 16.5, HBU 22.5): 16.5 is correct for the HB series, but that would place it between The Black Box (24) and The Burning Room (26) in HBU. Since its publication date is after The Gods of Guilt (25), 25.5 makes more sense.
Blue on Black (currently HB 14.5, HBU 18.5): Bosch and Walling both appear in this, as well as in The Reversal (HBU 21). There's nothing specific in the story lines to indicate sequence, so going by publication date, 14.5 and 20.5 seem correct for this one.
Suicide Run: Three Harry Bosch Stories (currently HB 15.1, HBU 16.1); Angle of Investigation (currently HB 15.2, HBU 16.2). Each of these contains three individual short stories that sequentially would be scattered throughout the series. So I think the only thing to go by for these as collections would be publication date (see below), unless there's another approach entirely (e.g. removing them?). That would make them 14.x in HB and 22.x in HBU. However, Blue on Black would also be a 14.x (20.x in HBU), so I'm not sure what the best way to number those three would be.
Nine Dragons (HB 14, HBU 20): 10/13/2009
Blue on Black: April 2010
The Reversal (HBU 21): 10/5/2010
The Fifth Witness (HBU 22): 4/5/2011
Suicide Run: 10/1/2011
Angle of Investigation: 11/1/2011
The Drop (HB 15, HBU 23): 11/28/2011
Thanks, Jeff. This is helpful. I just need some time to get to this. I was without power for 4 days due to Tropical Storm Michael and am behind in everything. Maybe this weekend.
Oh, no rush! I hope you're doing well and getting back to normal very soon - no rush at all. Just wanted to clarify - glad it's a little clearer.
It’s a LOT clearer! It will make it easer to fix.
Ok, that's good, because out of curiosity I took a look at the guidelines you mentioned earlier: https://www.goodreads.com/help/show/4...I'm not sure how those guidelines would apply here for the collections, because the originals (to my knowledge) weren't published individually. I think they were all originally published in other anthologies, with stories from other authors.
So, I don't think my suggestions for Suicide Run and Angle of Investigation comply with the guidelines. If I understand correctly, the anthologies wouldn't be numbered in the series, but listed at the end. Suicide Run: Three Harry Bosch Stories, for example, would be at the bottom of the listing and shown as "Book 4.5, 6.5 & 13.5" (the numbers of the individual short stories in the HB series). The problem (if it is a problem) is that there are no indivual publications to link to in order to list those stories in the series.
Anyway, I hope that doesn't make it too complicated, after finally getting it clearer.
No worries. I completely understand the guidelines and will make the changes accordingly.
@Jonetta: Hope all is well and that the storm Michael did not affect you too much. I have another one for you: how come The Lincoln Lawyer is #17 in Harry Bosch Universe and not #15? For me it should belong between The Closers and Echo Park. Any idea?
I’ll fix that, too, Percaso. Connelly has changed his site since I first created the universe listing.
Jeff,Suicide Run: Three Harry Bosch Stories & Angle of Investigation will be 14.6 & 14.7 in the HB series. They’ll be 22.1 & 22.2 in the HBU series.
All done! Many thanks, Jeff & Percaso.
Thanks so much, Jonetta! Btw, I thought that Lincoln Lawyer was previously moved immediately prior to The Brass Verdict just to keep the first two Mickey Haller books together for the reading order, and nothing in Echo Park or The Overlook created any discontinuity. I think it's fine either way, but just wanted to mention it since there are a couple other exceptions to the publication order (Blood Work/Darkness and Void Moon/The Narrows).
The rationale for Blood Work was to place it immediately before the first appearance of Terry McCaleb. Same for Void Moon. I couldn’t remember why The Lincoln Lawyer was placed the way it was so thanks for the reminder. Now that I’ve changed it to published order, let’s please let it stand. It’s a lot of work to move these books AND change the series titling for each edition.
Are we all okay with that decision?
Makes sense to me. I think there's good rationale for the other two moves, but for Lincoln Lawyer it doesn't matter nearly as much, since the other Mickey Haller appearances are spaced among the non-Haller books in the series anyway.And thank you! I see that the titles are already updated, at least for all the editions I have shelved.
Thank you, Jeff. I really appreciate all the effort you put in to get this right.
Adding a note here about the change I just made to the ordering of Blood Work and Angels Flight.I believe Blood Work had previously been listed after Angels Flight so that it would immediately precede A Darkness More Than Night, the second appearance of Terry McCaleb.
However, if you're paying attention while reading Angels Flight, there is a very brief mention of Terry McCaleb, wherein Harry Bosch and another detective notice a movie poster at a bus stop and there is a comment that Clint Eastwood doesn't look much like McCaleb.
Robert, I’ve left you a message explaining why I changed it back.
FYI to others, Jonetta pointed out to me the nightmare of dealing of changing series ordering vis a vis series info that also appears in the book titles. Not a task to be taken lightly when it comes to an author with many, many editions of his books.
Another follow-up on the ordering of Blood Work and Angels Flight. I'm currently doing a re-read of the entire Bosch Universe, from Black Echo onward, after not having read some of the early books in 15 years.I'm in the middle of Angels Flight now and want to note that in addition to the passage where Kiz Rider notes that Clint Eastwood doesn't look much like Terry McCaleb, there is another passage a couple pages earlier (p. 76 of the HB first edition) where the movie poster is first seen and the title "Blood Work" is specifically mentioned.
So this does seem like an ordering change ought to be made so that Blood Work is before Angles Flight. But it's very tedious and painful to do because of ordering numbers in many of the book edition titles here on GR.
Robert, I’m not willing to do it. You’re welcome to do it yourself.
FYI, the last time I made the change it took 3 hours to do.
This would only affect the numbering of Angels Flight and Blook Work, correct? And only in the HBU series? I've also recently re-read the entire series, and I liked reading Blood Work immediately before Darkness, and probably would again. My understanding is that this ordering was not intended to be strictly chronological, which is discussed quite a bit earlier in this thread and others. Even with the continuity issue Robert has brought up, I'd probably still want to read them in the existing order.I think either way is fine, I just hope that the series info in the titles is updated. I have about 60 editions of Michael Connelly books on my GR shelves and much prefer to see consistent numbering for each edition of a book.
Jeff, I read them in the same order and preferred it that way. You know the effort I undertook to get the titling correct. It’s a big time commitment but so necessary for member clarity with so many editions out there.
If a change is made without making the associated titling edits, I will continue to reverse those edits.
Hi, sorry to be late to the Angles Flight / Blood Work discussion. I read them both too and it was fine to read them in that order: Angels Flight and then Blood Work. Nevertheless, @Robert points are very valid and there are references from Blood Work in Angels Flight. Thus, I argue that the ordering should be Blood Work and then Angels Flight (which is also the chronological ordering besides making sense due to the cross references in the book). I will update the titles too to make it a consistent change. I will wait to make the change for a couple of days so you can respond. If no one objects I will do the changes.
Percaso, that means changing EVERY title that reflects the current book numbers for both books. Please don’t make the change unless you’re willing to do that, not just for the first book.
OK I looked at it. There are too many versions I would need to change. I cannot justif the effort with the reward so I will leave it as is. Thanks @Jonetta for highlighting that one would need to change the Title for all versions.
You’re welcome. I’ve done it when the change was more impactful. I’m not kidding when I say it took me three hours.
Jonetta wrote: "You’re welcome. I’ve done it when the change was more impactful. I’m not kidding when I say it took me three hours."I'm sorry it took so long, but it has to be undone. There is no "Harry Bosch Universe Series". That's just all wrong. There never was and there never will be. This is the URL from the official Michael Connolly website for the series order.
https://www.michaelconnelly.com/series
Yes some characters overlap, but that does not makes those books part of multiple series. I'll give you a good example (yes, I know its a movie but it's a valid example). The Star Trek movies are The Original Series and The Next Generation. The movie Star Trek: Generations is a Next Generation movie even though it starts off in the time period of The Original Series with some of the characters. And later in the movie, it's just Captain Kirk that is part of the movie in The Next Generation timeline. But it's not a combination Original/Net Generation movie. It's just a Net generation movie. It's the same with The Connolly books. They don't have overlapping series name. They are not part of a Harry Bosh universe. As it is, it's all wrong. It needs to be undone so it can be correct.
Thank you and I appreciate all the work this will take to fix the mess that his books are now.
JS, I actually confirmed with the publisher the universe reading order. It does not interfere with the main series listing, which you are referencing. The universe listing provides a recommended reading order of all the books related to the Harry Bosch world. It will not be removed. You are misunderstanding the reason for the listing. Please read this entire thread of posts.
And, I take issue with you referring to it as a “mess.” Dial it back.
The universe is valid if they have characters that overlap, per Goodreads policy. "Series" on Goodreads has a broader meaning than a traditional series as listed on other websites. I understand what you mean, but the universe should not be disbanded in this case.Edited for clarity: The universe series here was created to differentiate the main Harry Bosch books from the books where he is a more minor character. It does not refer to a series title or anything; it just groups the books together for reference.
Emily, they do more than overlap. In some instances, the timeline for the main series is advanced and events occur in the related books that reach into the mainstream of the main series, thus the interests of the other participants in this conversation. They’re actually referenced! And, Harry isn’t always a minor character. There are multiple and compelling reasons for the universe listing that follow the Goodreads guidelines for creating the secondary series. Thank you for your clarification. It’s beyond helpful.
Emily wrote: "The universe is valid if they have characters that overlap, per Goodreads policy. "Series" on Goodreads has a broader meaning than a traditional series as listed on other websites. I understand wha..."But the way they are set up is not nice. I don't want to see different series numbers in the title then the order the books are in on the official website. I think it's wrong and the policy should go with what the author decides.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Void Moon (other topics)The Lincoln Lawyer (other topics)
Blood Work (other topics)
Angle of Investigation (other topics)
Suicide Run (other topics)
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