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Group Read - Bannerless > Group Read - Bannerless Chap 10-13 to end spoilers welcome

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message 1: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14290 comments The third and last section covers chapters 10-13 from page 182-274
If the first to post, please briefly summarize to guide the discussion.
Spoilers welcome on this topic

message 2: by Geri (last edited Oct 10, 2017 09:53PM) (new)

Geri Enid and Dak continue traveling through small towns. Then decide to walk through the ruins of before the fall. They encounter a man and woman. They are taken to a settlement with lots of children and no banners. Enid and Dak walk away from the settlement and found a small camp. A woman with children is frightened but allows them to rest there. Enid gives the family all their food. They travel back to the coast road.

Back in Pasadan. Dak approaches Enid asks whether he was in town when Sero died. They go to Philo’s household and confronts him. Philo confirms he took more land to up their household’s stores. During the confrontation Tomas has an attack and dies. Enid wonders if Tomas was poisoned. She asks Tull, the medic, to examine Tomas. Tull thinks it was heart attack or stroke. Autopsy done and Tull finds a blockage. Dak offers to take Enid and Tomas back to Haven. Dak reveals he wants a banner. Enid tells Dak about her household and partner Sam. Enid measures Dak’s feet. They match the tracks. Miran reveals that she felt pressured by Kirk, and that Kirk may have thought that Miran may have wanted a banner with someone else.

Enid and Dak take shelter from a terrible storm. They leave shelter and make it to the coast road and a weigh station. Enid heads for Haven when storm passes. Dak does not go with her. A few years after storm, Enid trains to be an investigator.

Dak reveals that Ariana has been plotting to get investigators there for quite a while. Dak tried to persuade Sero to do this. Dak was the one who found Sero, but denies killing Sero. Tomas is cremated. Enid continues investigation. Searches for Kirk in cellar, after he goes missing. Kirk comes out of cellar. She takes everyone to Sero’s she’d. Enid figures out Kirk confronted Sero. Kirk had startled Sero and caused thue mistep that led to Sero hitting his head. Another storm is approaching as Enid drives back to Haven. Olive greets Enid and Enid has to tell her about Tomas. At her household, Enid collapses into Sam’s arms. They will both help harvest apples before storm hits.

The End

message 3: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14290 comments Terrific summaries Geri!
I finished the book this afternoon and have been considering the ending and the whole of it. I liked Enid from the start at twelve years old - leaving the shelter during the storm to go out with Tomas. I liked her even more as she persevered and got herself and Dak out of the raging storm and mudslide. I liked how she was eager to see her world and the world outside and was cautious but unafraid when encountering people in the ruins of the city.
Dak was not that impressive after all and I was glad when Enid saw it too.
Tomas' death was sad, and I worried for Enid's safety. His heart attack at a young age and the precarious situation of limited food and poor housing in the ruins were stark reminders of the dangers they all faced on a daily basis.

message 4: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14290 comments Geri: I thought the author did an effective job showing the perils of living outside of the established coast road society and of bannerless living inside the coast road limits while showing that there is also a price to live under Haven and banner control.
But the biggest aspect she reveals is that "the fall" and collapse of modern civilization was not one thing but a series of mishaps, natural disasters and health issues.
So scary.

message 5: by Geri (last edited Oct 14, 2017 09:21AM) (new)

Geri Ann, I agree with what you said about Enid. She was definitely strong and resourceful. Intelligent enough to see through Dak. I was not impressed with Dak either.

Tomas dying really surprised me! I did worry what would happen to Enid.

What did you think of the resolution to Sero’s death?

It was interesting to see what it was like in the ruins. The people had freedom to procreate, but definitely at a cost. I would want to live in one of the towns. With all the rules and restrictions and some order.

message 6: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14290 comments Geri: I thought the resolution of Sero's death was sad to see how little anyone cared about his death and interesting in learning about the different schemes to gain a banner and that Ariana and Philos both thought they could avoid the authority's intervention.
I liked that Enid stuck with it and sensed that most of what the people said was not true.
I was surprised that Dak aided Enid in the final confrontation with Ariana, Miram, Kirk and Philos. I think he was hoping to glom onto Enid like a rat jumping from a sinking ship.

message 7: by Geri (new)

Geri I liked the resolution to Sero’s death too. I thought Dak could have done it right up to the end. Kirk was also a strong suspect too because of his crazy possessive attitude toward Miran. I agree I like that Enid did not give up. She figured it out almost Sherlock Holmes style.

Dak really is an opportunist! I wonder if we have seen the last of him.

message 8: by Ann (last edited Oct 15, 2017 04:34PM) (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14290 comments Geri: I was suspicious of Dak throughout the book but thought Kirk was the murderer. I am not sure why I didn't think Dak did it - perhaps because he didn't seem to have much motivation to do anything. He couldn't even muster up the energy to save himself from the storm he and Enid got caught in. He owed her his life.

message 9: by Geri (new)

Geri I wasn’t sure what the motivation would be for Dak to kill Sero. But I was still suspicious since we learned all about his relationship with Enid. I think I have read too many mysteries with twists at the end! LOL

message 10: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14290 comments Geri: I hear you about reading lots of books with twists!
And the evidence seemed to lead toward Sero's death possibly being manslaughter so really anyone could have done it which muddies up how we feel about Dak or Kirk ( and making it easier to think either could have done something to push Sero)

I found the comparison to the 'before the fall" forensics and Enid's understanding (that there were different shades of murder in the past) interesting; both in how times changed and had to simplify and how she managed to gain that knowledge and how hard it was to hold onto knowledge and technology.
Geri wrote: "I wasn’t sure what the motivation would be for Dak to kill Sero. But I was still suspicious since we learned all about his relationship with Enid. I think I have read too many mysteries with twists..."

message 11: by Geri (new)

Geri Ann, I agree the comparison between the past and present laws, forensics, and technology were nicely done. Enid’s knowledge of them through Autie Kath made sense. I do wonder how long it would take for all the old ways to be forgotten. The only thing left would be her journal. No more first hand account by people who lived before “The Fall”.

message 12: by Angela (new)

Angela Bennett | 15 comments This was a straight forward murder mystery that was nicely written. I never thought Dak murdered Sero (his personality wasn't fitting for me to think he had and when I learned Kirk and Miran were together, I knew right then it was Kirk who had murdered Sero), but I was disappointed that there were no twists, especially with Dak. I thought for sure something else who have been revealed about him. I wanted something scandalous with him. I love twists in books, keeps me engaged and on my toes. I didn't expect Enid to ask for his help in the end.

Tomas dying . . . I felt Enid's sorrow.

Through the books entirety, I could not help but feel slight sad, depressed for what was and what is, and how it all came to be. I like books that make me think, and this book had me thinking of our present time, with Mother Nature so angry more frequently---tornadoes, hurricanes, fires, mud slides and flash flooding, and the chaos within our government and with other countries . . . it makes me think the what if's . . . a bit scary.

message 13: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14290 comments Angela: The what-if scenarios that come to mind are scary and I also felt (and still feel weeks later) sadness from a sense of the vast loss after the fall. I know this unsettling impact often is why I shy away from post-apocalyptic novels.

message 14: by Geri (new)

Geri Angela - I definitely had the same feeling about the ending. Waiting for a twist, a revelation. I wonder if Dak will be in other books and we, the reader, will get more.

I agree the parallels to real life and the book are scary. I could see a flu epidemic wiping out many people and severe weather doing the rest. I only hope it doesn’t happen any time soon!

message 15: by Ceelee (new)

Ceelee | 204 comments Very interesting final chapters! I was so sad when Tomas died. It was surprising he died of a heart attack at a young age, so I guess they are still stuck with the same diseases even in a more simple environment. I thought he and Enid made a good team. He was a steadying influence to her impatience and anger.

I never thought Dak murdered Sero. He may have been an opportunist but he didn't seem to have enough real rage in him. I think he knew somersetting though which turned out to be right. Wow that Ariana was quite the schemer! I thought maybe she was a little too good to be true and was hiding something. Lots of secretive people in this crowd!

I had either Philos or Kirk pegged for the murder practically the first time I "met" them. Philos made me think of one of those older affluent guys who wants to control everything , and expects people to fall in line. He is not above cheating and bribery to get what he wants to achieve success and stay in control. Kirk was just an angry young man and could be capable of violence. The solution to the murder made sense and was more like manslaughter. I don't think Kirk went there with the intent to kill Sero but he was sporting for a fight and it ended in Sero's death.

I loved Enid from the beginning. One of my favorite parts of the book is when she and Dak went on their adventures to the ruins and we got a glimpse of what living outside their region was like. And the flood! That was incredible writing! I kept thinking of the people in Houston, Florida and Puerto Rico and that their situation must be similar to what Enid and Dak were experiencing and it gave me chills.

I thought it was pretty cool there were solar cars! Not everyone had them though and it seemed they were only available to borrow at way stations

One confusing point for me is SAM? I thought he belonged to Olive? But Enid seemed to be really in love with him and that is why she wouldn't hook up with Dak. Now that was a surprise!

message 16: by Ann (new)

Ann (annrumsey) | 14290 comments Ceelee: you've mentioned several key parts that resonated with me too. The crazy contrasts between the technology or knowledge they retained (Solar cars! Birth control implants) and the rural and somewhat primitive conditions was fascinated and the flood scenes were intense and riveting.
Tomas's death was a shock, and so hard for Enid to be alone in the field like that, among at least mildly hostile people and a murder suspect. It was a bit less worrying to know Dak was there and surely had some remaining loyalty to her, and hopefully would have her back in a different way perhaps, but something.

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