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BOTM Past to Present > OCTOBER 2017 BOTM.....Homeowner with a Samuel Hawley

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message 1: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
Amazon-Kindle has this book from 3.99 on up....
Barnes and Nobles,,,,has paperback only for 13.00 and used is 11.00 on up.

message 2: by Jim (last edited Sep 30, 2017 10:38AM) (new)

Jim Crocker | 292 comments Hey now! I'm 66% through this one and I am on the edge of my seat. The fellows just get deeper and deeper into the void and one wonders what the outcome will be. So now I am rooting for the two "opponents" who have yet to meet, but I can see the collision coming from a mile away. It should be a good one.

This story is also loaded with a ton of issues surrounding "Castle" defense, carrying a weapon and on and on. I certainly have my opinions about these things, and plan to share them with y'all. This is a great story. Admittedly I had my doubts at the outset, but once I started reading, I was hooked. I read last night until my eyelids drooped.

As usual I will put up a BOTM post for this thread. Cheers and stay tuned!

message 3: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
Well, starting next week, we will start the topic on this one. I figure by mid month, everyone will switch over to Cortez's book..

message 4: by Jim (new)

Jim Crocker | 292 comments Let me say this much: CHAPTER 23!!😨😨😨

message 5: by Karen B. (new)

Karen B. (raggedy11) I started this today and am 35% through. I am having difficulty reading it though because it's making me depressed. Certainly we have had other books that were more depressing so I assume it's me, not the book. But I plan to continue reading.

message 6: by Jake (new)

Jake Remington | 26 comments I've only read about 25% (just starting chapter 8 now) but I am finding it highly engaging despite like Jim, having had my doubts going into it.
The simultaneous look at two starkly contrasting cultures existing within the same city is fascinating and not what I expected.
The tension is definitely building in this one with likable and believable characters - very well written.

message 7: by Janeandjerry (new)

Janeandjerry (janeandjerryculwell) | 0 comments I read this book and it threw me off with how things ended and I can't wait to see what others think of this one...

message 8: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
So today is such a sad day, because of the shootings and the killings in Las Vegas. May peace come to everyone here on this earth sooner than later, because we all need it.
So as I open up this month's thread on this book, it is slightly different than what is happening in LV.
Lets talk a bit ( day or so ) about gun control, and who and who should not be allowed a gun, and also if you are one of many who feel that guns should not be here in the United States, than what does one need to protect themselves?
Also why is it that so many people are not being killed in other countries that have gun regulations and why shouldn't we have it here.
Personally I cannot see the U.S stopping gun control because the first thing they throw up is Amendment and what it details, but like I tell folks, when they made that Amendment, they were talking about guns that Daniel Boone had, not what we have now...Will the shooting of one who kills many stop after this? I don't think so,,Some coo-coo will feel that someone will try and top this one, because that's what men do. I say men because that's what it is,,,lets not sugar coat stuff, I love men, but their minds are not geared like women. Point be known...More male prisons built than female. NOT SAYING that women don't do damage, but men are OUT THERE.....So as today's topic will be gun control, which slides right into this book per-se....So let me see others who have same OR different outcomes with this gun issue........

message 9: by Jake (new)

Jake Remington | 26 comments Can of worms officially opened...
I agree with Stephanie on us dudes - I get homicidal just being tailgated on the hwy!
Looking in from the outside (Canada) the whole gun issue in the US is so baffling.
Why do rights (i.e. to own an automatic weapon) under the 2nd amendment supersede rights of others to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
Murder and mayhem happen everywhere - with or without guns but the gun incident problem in the US seems to be epidemic - why is that?
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - I don't know if I've heard anything more beautiful than that - Vegas last night was not that - bless all those people and their families.

message 10: by Jake (new)

Jake Remington | 26 comments Ruth, Yeah Hillary's (is her first name really Crooked?) telling you one thing and the NRA is telling you another - both are using scare tactics.
I am very fond of the US and the American people and a lot of what I see of down there of late, including all the gun incidents, breaks my heart.
I'm not anti-gun - I own a rifle, but I just don't see why the right to own an automatic or semiautomatic weapon is so important in light of all the problems that are occurring.
Why do you have to take a test to get a drivers license and yet any yahoo or psycho a can get a gun as long as they have patience for the minimum waiting period?
It's not my country so really none of my business but every time I turn on the news it seems there's been another horrible gun incident down there.
Guns are serious business and in my opinion getting one should be treated as serious business and yes, in some instances, restricted.

message 11: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
Can we not bury our dead and take care of the wounded before we take this tragedy and horrific event, that has affected so many, and turn it into a political anti gun event? Can we wait for the facts to be presented before we rush to judgement? Please! Waiting a few days will not change what happened, but it will provide an opportunity to ascertain the facts, which usually are necessary before making decisions.......................

^^^^^^ I received this message by a reader, so yes I will wait and calm down before I open the flood gates on my belief. I can and WILL wait....Thank you....MOD-Stephanie

message 12: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
Ruth, I was the one who received this message, not you...So you didn't offend anyone, I DID by sending out that mass message to all members, and someone got a little upset.....That's all.

message 13: by Jim (new)

Jim Crocker | 292 comments So after my military life I came away with the feeling that hardly anyone is emotionally qualified to possess a gun of any kind. You carry, and the gun becomes the bottom line solution to every single problem or obstscle. "Oh, you're telling me no. Well, ha ha ha, I gotta gun and can blow you outta your socks, you say no to me! It's like putting an old man (I am one) on a bicycle. Suddenly he turns into a ten yeay old and does crazy stuff. The power takes over your common sense. Yunno that swagger walk that Marshall Dillon had? It was because he had ten pounds of iron hanging on his hips. You walk like that to balance the load you're carrying, not because you're trying to look all bad ass. But what I'm saying is the the inclusion of a gun can change the dynamic without you knowing it is happening. I am going to post the conclusion to a long-running local Montana saga involving a homowner with a gun. It will be on the BOTM, but I got stuff to do first. Look for it later.😎

message 14: by Karen B. (new)

Karen B. (raggedy11) Ruth I am glad you tied the current events in with the book. Of course I want to know how the gunman got 18 rifles into his room. No matter how you wrap a rifle it's still going to look odd.

message 15: by Angela (new)

Angela Bennett | 62 comments Hi all! Started the book . . . very, very slow start. Had hard time wanting to keep reading. Ended on Chapter 8 and still not much happening to move the story along. Really just the threatening phone call. I'm hoping it picks up a lot, considering it is a thriller.

message 16: by Laima (new)

Laima | 1 comments Very sad events in Vegas. I live in Canada and my neighbors have guns. My son does too. He's in the armed forces. Nobody carries them around or talks about weapons here. Also, we have good healthcare which includes mental health. I don't think the shooter in this case was mentally stable.

message 17: by Jake (last edited Oct 02, 2017 06:25PM) (new)

Jake Remington | 26 comments Jim wrote: "So after my military life I came away with the feeling that hardly anyone is emotionally qualified to possess a gun of any kind. You carry, and the gun becomes the bottom line solution to every sin..."

Yeah, testosterone and firearms do not mix well - add in some alcohol and you've got a real problem.
Back in my young punk days (many, many moons ago) we'd get in a fistfight and half the time end up laughing about it and having a beer together once we'd got it out of our system.
Once someone is shot dead there's nothing to laugh about.

message 18: by Angela (new)

Angela Bennett | 62 comments Can we talk about the book...maybe this needs to be another thread..

message 19: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
I am giving myself 48 hours before I start in on this book along with what I ( key word=I ) think of the gun issue, and also why folks react differently.

message 20: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
Angela, go for it, this is the thread for this book. I just felt that recent gun issues goes along with what we are or have read, so you go for it.

message 21: by Jake (new)

Jake Remington | 26 comments Ruth wrote: "It was a joke hun. Just a joke."

I'm just glad you said it and not me!

message 22: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
I got your back Ruth, I think a lot of folks just don't want to hear how this all connects. For the life of me, guns are everywhere, and I think that people are still in this denial that folks seem to snap at any given time. Jim is right about the gun on the waist like Matt Dillon. So you can be a family dad and still do something wrong.
Here lets start by saying this.....You have a family dad who wants to take the family on to a mini vac in a van that probably looks like The Partridge family van, and it breaks down. Come home, go to bed, and then you hear something that goes BUMP in the night. First thing is get a gun, or the bat next to your bed, or better yet, get a Rottie....

message 23: by Jake (new)

Jake Remington | 26 comments I can't say what would have happened if I'd been a young man in an open carry society - I might be dead or in prison.
Your life can change in a heartbeat with one bad split second decision and a firearm can turn a bad decision into a deadly decision - very scary indeed.
I just finished chapter 12 and this novel is definitely holding my attention - maybe it's a guy thing but for me its gritty and suspenseful.
I just finished Patterson's Black Book and now that feels a bit flat compared to this novel.
I had trepidation to read this as I worried it might be some NRA supporter type propaganda but so far I'm not seeing that - rather it's thoughtful, realistic and yes, very unsettling.

message 24: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
Well seeing what you said Jake, the part where shooting can change one's life, that's exactly what actually happened with this book. You see, when the person was shot in the back yard,..interesting..especially when YOU know you didn't shot that bullet...hummm?

message 25: by Jim (new)

Jim Crocker | 292 comments Ruth wrote: "It was a joke hun. Just a joke."
HAHAHAHA!😨 As they say, "In Germany, comedy is no laughing matter!"

message 26: by Jim (new)

Jim Crocker | 292 comments In old time Fort Benton, Montana (which is the end of the line -- or beginning, depending upon how you look at it) life expectancy on the street for a young man (or anyone, really) was about 20 minutes. All these hotshots (you wonder where the expression come from) took the riverboat up as far as it went, got off the boat and BaddaBing that was it. Not making this up!😲

message 27: by Jim (new)

Jim Crocker | 292 comments Ruth wrote: "ROFL"

Yeah, that was Mel Brooks!

message 28: by Jim (new)

Jim Crocker | 292 comments So as I said earlier: Chapter 23! Best chspter ever written. You can see these guys playing poor Ralph (aka Grocery) and he slooooowly starts to get it. Only he doesn't REALLY get it. Well, until much later. HAHAHA! Now this is really funny. And what makes it soooo funny, is that the boys are all snickering and Grocery is still clueless, and half the people reading Chap 23 don't see it coming, either. But guys like me, my old SEAL buddy and Jake up there in Canadia are falling outta our seats laughing. I know, it kinda twisted...and we are!😨

message 29: by Jim (new)

Jim Crocker | 292 comments Just for everyone's info, it snowed on the mountain behind us last night. Pix avail upon request!

message 30: by Jim (new)

Jim Crocker | 292 comments You could move to the "Hill Country." Probably snows a little bit! Where is everyone today? Jeesh! And aren't you supposed to be working?

message 31: by Jim (last edited Oct 03, 2017 12:29PM) (new)

Jim Crocker | 292 comments And where's the author?!!! We got questions! And we want answers! Maybe Jake should step right in. He was loads of fun that last time!

message 32: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
The Author was told his book is being talked about here, and its up to him if he wants to come. I no longer ask them, I just inform them.

So here we have a family man, having a good time, until the night time where he hears noises. I wonder why he all of a sudden picked up a gun? I have a bat next in my side, hubby has a knife, and I have a gun under the mattress, and under the bed..Hubby has just the knife. I HAVE THE 150 POUND ROTTIE, HUBBY HAS THE KNIFE..SO AS I SAY THIS,,,LOOK AT THE PICTURE I JUST LAID OUT FOR YOU...

message 33: by Karen B. (new)

Karen B. (raggedy11) I did think he was a little impetuous to go for the gun right away.

message 34: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
I think so too Karen B. and the thing that got me was he has 2 young kids around the house 24/7. Now when we are notified that the grandkids come, we have everything put up to where they cannot even see or reach it. we also have a lock box. Out of all the grandkids, I have 1 who seems to snoop a lot, so I have to be 2 steps ahead of her.

message 35: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
I am sending out a mass message to members,,so here goes...

message 36: by Jake (new)

Jake Remington | 26 comments Wow, this is one scary book group...
Ruth is like Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino - 'Get off my lawn'.
Stephanie, in bed no less, has a gun, a knife, and 150 lb attack dog - plus a man who may or may not be afraid of her - Seal Team Six would be afraid of messing with that household.

message 37: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
HAHAHAHA...You know, my husband is sooo laid back that when stuff happens around here, he just looks at me because I'm the go-getter.,,,,,But I like that comment..haha

message 38: by Jake (last edited Oct 04, 2017 07:24AM) (new)

Jake Remington | 26 comments So, in general terms, men are wired for action - we fix things.
Sometimes (often?) our wiring leads us to a 'fix' that is destructive.
It seems to me that Jeff's ongoing problems in this novel stem from this:
Someone's in my house - gotta fix it.
Now I've got another problem - gotta fix it.
He's had to fix a few other things as well: door, window, bloodstains etc.
I'm only on chapter 18 but he seems to be fixing himself into further problems - we'll see where this goes.
Meanwhile wife is hoping the problem will go away - I hope they just leave us alone - not a dude reaction.
Don't get me wrong - I think Jeff started out making some bad decisions but as a guy I can relate to his drive & desperation to fix the problem particularly with his family involved.
What is a handgun? - a fix - a fix for fear and insecurity.

message 39: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
Good points Jake, now FIX IT..haha..alright now here is the kicker. When folks target your home, its for a reason...If you live on a block of lets say 40 houses, and someone targets only YOURS,,then I would sit back and wonder, WHY WAS MY HOME SINGLED OUT", then I would start investigating my home, before heading out wondering about addresses, which we will get to down the road right? Just before you purchase a home, folks tend to do a background check with the realtor on the property, if they don't reveal, then do it yourself. I have a friend who buys homes that are meth labs and then guts them out, flips them and money into his pockets. Folks who buy the homes know that the home WAS a meth lab, and because the re-const of the home is so fan-tas-tic, and the deal is good, then they purchase the home, so far so good on his flipping.

message 40: by Jake (new)

Jake Remington | 26 comments Ruth wrote: "And what about the wife. I'm confused. He keeps acting like she is bitc...complaining, but I haven't seen that yet."

Yeah, he seems to over react to normal chick stuff.
Didn't he allude at one point that something happened in the past?
Maybe that will come up later.

message 41: by Jake (new)

Jake Remington | 26 comments stephanie wrote: "Good points Jake, now FIX IT..haha..alright now here is the kicker. When folks target your home, its for a reason...If you live on a block of lets say 40 houses, and someone targets only YOURS,,the..."

Same up here - by law on a property sale you have to disclose if it was ever a drug house.
Partly because of the potential undesirables coming around and partly because of potential for chemical residue.
Could be a good turnkey business with an already established customer base - just sell brownies to all the druggies coming around. Hmm brownies!

message 42: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
Well, Brownies would not get you shot up here in Denver, but having plants in the backyard can, its happened already, but what gets me is that they targeted his home, and that should have put a RED flag up in his brain. But later on down the road, I am going to throw the race card into this, that may be uncomfortable to some, or many around here.....

message 43: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
Well, here goes the race card...You all know about the female detective that really didn't care for Jeff, right off the bat. Is it because Jeff was acting funny towards her when she got to Jeff's home because she was of a different color? And the reason why I also say that is because when Jeff went to the police station, wasn't there some side remarks about this? I wonder why the author put these guys as being black and gang mentality state of mind....? hummm remember, someone was wearing a GPS STRAIGHT OUT OF PRISON...

message 44: by Jim (new)

Jim Crocker | 292 comments Y'all are cookin' now. Just wait until you read through Chap 23. I wanna know what you think of that. And then it gets nuttier. Also, remember this is just fiction here. Later, I will throw in my link to an actual homeowner with a gun incident.

Now here it's just me, Dorothy and Max and we all come heavy! HAHAHAHA!😎

message 45: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
Living in the mountains, you have to be, Lions, and Tigers and Bears...OH MY

message 46: by Jim (new)

Jim Crocker | 292 comments BoomBoom knows what she's talking about!!😲

message 47: by Angela (new)

Angela Bennett | 62 comments I agree Jim. Nuttier yes, where it wasn't believable for me. This is fiction, but fiction is supposed to be written to make it believable. For example, why would Jeff go and track down the houses himself? Why not give this info to the cops? I can't see a good, decent family man go off on his own, in search of a stash house that might have been the intended house, knowing he'd be dealing with harden criminals. Then being placed in the situation with the rival gangsta's and being involved with the fire and killing? Really? And then going into his home, realizing someone is in there . . . had he not learned the first time? Why didn't he just walk out and call the police? And then splitting the money with I-Man? Seriously? Maybe it's just me, but the story line was too far-fetched for me. But the story line concept is a good one. And the author did a good job making the gangsta chapters fitting with how ill-sounding gangsta talk is. He nailed it.

message 48: by stephanie, MOD (new)

stephanie | 1346 comments Mod
OMG, Angela, YES YES,YES. I was thinking why in the world would Jeff take addresses while he was in the Detective office and scouting out the homes that are close to his, then I was sad when he ran across that old man who lived in the house by himself who asked him if he wanted coffee and sit awhile...remember that scene? I feel so bad when older folks have no company,...Since my father passed, I go see my mom every other day, and drink coffee and eat her food and I come back home. We end up watching tv, debate on stuff, and then she says" When you going home"...My late father had a slight case of Dementia, but he knew when I was coming over, then he would say" Don't you have a home to go to, why you over here everyday" haha. I use to tell him that it was Senior day, so I have to check on seniors, then his smart remark would be" your a senior so visit yourself"....Boy do I miss him and his smirkie mouth...He was a hoot!

message 49: by Angela (new)

Angela Bennett | 62 comments OMG back! Yes I remember the scene and yes it played on my memory with my own dad . . . hanging out with him so he wasn't alone. Him saying, "You got better things to do than sit and watch football with me." Me, "Nothing's better than learning plays from my old man." Priceless memories!

message 50: by Jake (new)

Jake Remington | 26 comments stephanie wrote: "OMG, Angela, YES YES,YES. I was thinking why in the world would Jeff take addresses while he was in the Detective office and scouting out the homes that are close to his, then I was sad when he ran..."

I'll have what shes having!
Sorry, dirty mind - perv moment.

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