Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
Bulletin Board
>
Searching for Indie/Self-Published authors who struggle to find reviewers
I've never understood this obsession with chasing reviews. I've found that if you sell books, reviews take care of themselves... or maybe I'm missing something?
I am struggling to get reviews for mine - sales too, but I'm always working on that. Your book has tons of reviews, Sean, compared to mine! I am curious about your idea though. My email is pamela@pamelaharju.com.
I have encountered the Indies Help Indies Review Project on Facebook, initiated by Jeannie B. Richards. She's doing an incredible job helping indies who are struggling to get a foot in the door of the book-world. Personally, I'm happy about every individual who reads my books and while I'm always checking for new reviews, I'm not chasing them. I've found that I drown in the vast offers on goodreads and get almost no recognition here, while the facebook groups I've joined seem to be working quite nicely. Still, I haven't reached even ten reviews for one book. But that's okay. I keep thinking that if I keep spreading the word a little bit and my fellow authors help out a little bit, it will get around eventually. Because the feedback is really good.
Denise wrote: "Yes, getting reviews is difficult, but you need sales before worrying about reviews. First you need to get your book in front of people instead of them choosing the other hundreds of thousands of b..."OK, I'll bight. I am in this category. This is possibly the start of an very interesting discussion. It is the proverbial 'chicken or egg' scenario. I usually buy things after I have read the first 3 reviews. So what do I do if there is no review? Well I go back to the product description. So this is where I depend on the Preview facility for a book. Do I conclude that my preview has failed or that my potential readers were never reached?
Sean wrote: "Hello all,I am a self-published author, and like many, I've struggled to obtain reviews. Yes, I've emailed and submitted to countless bloggers who so graciously review books for free. However, be..."
Sean,
The best way to go is to get a few "starter-reviews", not more than half a dozen. It's ok, if they are "kind of biased", readers expect that.
What matters is if they are "emotional," these reviews are supposed to radiate "what the reader felt" instead of presenting a re-telling of your story, kind of like the dreaded book report.
You can give out ARCs to get starter reviews but don't forget to follow Amazon's rules.
Once you have half a dozen reviews, you can approach top reviewers, book bloggers, run a promotion, do whatever fits best for your genre.
I have written two books about this topic; a combined 115 reviews will tell you what to expect.
Hope this helps.
I have the same struggles and I joined a few groups on fb and they really help with great ideas and advice.
Sean wrote: "Hello all,I am a self-published author, and like many, I've struggled to obtain reviews. Yes, I've emailed and submitted to countless bloggers who so graciously review books for free. However, be..."
Gisela wrote: "Sean wrote: "Hello all,
I am a self-published author, and like many, I've struggled to obtain reviews. Yes, I've emailed and submitted to countless bloggers who so graciously review books for free..."
Try library thing ebook giveaways - I had more success there than on goodreads and you don't have to send print copies
I've been having the same issue. I've joined a number of Facebook groups. I've sent out the emails to blogs. The most success I've had is doing a book blog tour but I'd need to find about 1000 more tours to get enough of a following. I'd like a website where there were 50 authors all agree to read and review each others books and cross promote them. They'd all have to agree to read the books and post a review daily. Imagine how quickly we'd reach that 50 review mark to be seen more on Amazon. I've tried reaching out to my local media outlets and even then, I'm not getting a response. I understand there are a ton of poorly written indie books out there among all the clever ones. It's trying to stand out that is hard. I believe in my book just as much as I'm sure everyone out there does. The reviews I've had so far have been positive too. It is so time consuming trying to promote a novel that it takes away from writing my next one.
I would be very interested in a site that would help my novel get 50 reviews. I've got a blog I'd be willing to admin as a site to do this if 50 of you are interested. I would need everyone's commitment to read each others books. I got it! light bulb moment!! I'd assign a book a week that we would give out arcs for and the 50 authors would be expected to read that book that week and review it. I like that idea or something like that....
A.W. wrote: "I've never understood this obsession with chasing reviews. I've found that if you sell books, reviews take care of themselves... or maybe I'm missing something?"To an extent this is true. I've sold over 2000 copies of my book (and given away another couple thousand with free giveaways... though who knows how many of those are actually read) and I only have 12 reviews, 40 ratings on Goodreads... 24 on Amazon. I understand those numbers are higher than many self-published titles, but only one out of 100-200 readers writing a review is rather disappointing.
I guess to answer your question, in an e-commerce market, reviews are one of several primary sources of marketing. To that end, I'm simply aspiring to more reviews in the hopes that it increases awareness and sell-ability of my title.
Pamela wrote: "I am struggling to get reviews for mine - sales too, but I'm always working on that. Your book has tons of reviews, Sean, compared to mine! I am curious about your idea though."Thanks for the response, Pamela. Agreed - we are always working on sales, and I have a strong belief that reviews are an ever important factor in sales with such a low barrier to entry in the self-publishing world now. We'll be in touch!
L.M. wrote: "They'd all have to agree to read the books and post a review daily. Imagine how quickly we'd reach that 50 review mark to be seen more on Amazon."I think you're on to something! I would be interested if you do every set up something like that. I've heard that books are more search-able on Amazon with more reviews, but I've never heard of the 50 review mark. Good to know!
Sean wrote: "L.M. wrote: "They'd all have to agree to read the books and post a review daily. Imagine how quickly we'd reach that 50 review mark to be seen more on Amazon."I think you're on to something! I wo..."
I've sent you a private message, this is exactly what I am aiming to achieve with bookgobbler.com - please consider listing your book there, we have 100 registered users, and a monthly flow of 1,200 unique users, so slowly but steadily we are gaining crowd and support - keeping it all free.
Sean wrote: "Hello all,
I am a self-published author, and like many, I've struggled to obtain reviews. Yes, I've emailed and submitted to countless bloggers who so graciously review books for free. However, be..."
Sean, I'm curious about how indie authors value reviews as part of marketing, care to take a couple minute survey? If so email me at farevco@gmail.com ! Thanks!
I am a self-published author, and like many, I've struggled to obtain reviews. Yes, I've emailed and submitted to countless bloggers who so graciously review books for free. However, be..."
Sean, I'm curious about how indie authors value reviews as part of marketing, care to take a couple minute survey? If so email me at farevco@gmail.com ! Thanks!
Franklin wrote: "Sean, I'm curious about how indie authors value reviews as part of marketing, care to take a couple minute survey? If so email me at farevco@gmail.com ! Thanks! "You bet! I've just sent you an email. I've heard various thoughts from authors who disagree whether or not reviews should be a part of their marketing budget/strategy... interesting conversation at the very least!
Sean and others,I appreciate this thread having just published a short story anthology on Smashwords.com, titled, Waiting For Messiah.
My editor wisely offered a book sample, which has received more downloads than book sales in the fifteen days the book has been published. About 11 books have sold, and 18 samples downloaded to date.
I like the suggestion to try LibraryThing but wonder if they now charge for giving away one's EBook?
The issue for all of us is finding an audience and ultimately readers/buyers. I don't know that many people select their reads on reviews alone. I am giving away coupons to Facebook friends but few are nibbling unless I contact them directly.
Reviews may be one tool, but it seems to me the focus is foundational, visiting Denise' issue of building sales.
The link for my anthology is:
www.smashwords.com/books/view/747411
All the Best,
David Russell
There are many books, articles in literary periodicals, classes and seminars available at little or no cost that focus upon all phases of writing, publishing and promotion. Far too many aspiring authors fail to take advantage of them.The key to potential commercial success in an extremely competitive field is first learning the basic writing skills such as spelling, punctuation, narration and syntax. Then learn about promotion, communication and product management from the professionals who have already obtained significant commercial success. Finally, strive to adhere to the philosophy of continuous improvement.
Sales drive reviews, not the other way around. Rather than seeking ways to personally tout your own skill set and product, allow others to do it for you. There is a popular business adage: "Your work speaks for itself. Don't interrupt!"
Hello Writers,I would like to respond to Jim's comment by turning it into a math story problem.
+ Promotion
+ management
+ Let others do it for you
= Work promoting itself, no interruption.
The key is to select the business models that "work" from the ones that are mere theory.
David Russell
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/... This Goodreads group seems to hit a lot of the items that you guys are talking about. It is new and only has about 40 members, all authors, and it is all for reviews, and as there are enough members, they are not swaps. I am really enjoying it, check it out.
I agree with everyone here that says how hard getting reviews are. Readers don't understand that:Reviews helps a book to rise in the ranks of Amazon where you get exposure and sales.
You can't promote your book on credible sites like Bookgorilla or Bargainbooksy unless it has over 5-10 reviews or more and over a 4 star rating, and those sites really are successful in selling your books to their subscribers.
I try so hard to get reviews because right now, I have maybe 2 books out of 6 that I can promote on those sites because of lack of reviews. So, Readers, this is one of the reasons why we urge you kindly to take a minute and leave a book review. The other reason, for me, is because knowing that someone appreciated your hard work makes it all worth it:)
And requesting reviews from very inundated bloggers does take away from time you need to write. It's really discouraging at times...
I think we all need to remind ourselves that writers are also readers. I've been trying to pay it forward by reading at least one indie book a week. I get e-mails from all the sites that deal in indie books and they're usually either free or free through my Amazon prime membership. I consider writing a review my "payment" for the book. I will only review the book if it's at least 3 stars. I derive some joy knowing that in most cases I've made the author's day.
I belong to that group. I purchase all my books through Kindle and I read all of them so Amazon can see that I did my due diligence as a reviewer. I'm not thrilled with the suggestion of giving every author five stars. In my book five stars is incredible, life changing, will read over and over again and recommend to everyone I meet. But I agree that you should not review an author if you're going to give less than three stars. Funny, I had a different outlook on that when I was just a reader. But now that I know how much it stings when someone gives you a one star rating or review, I'm no longer willing to do it myself.
I too would like to get some comments on my writing. I don't have anything published yet, but i do have a work in progress. How do i get more readers? I came to Goodreads because i had seen that it has a place for writers to post their work, so i had assumed there would be discussion groups for them. But so far i have only found groups for people whose books are finished and available on Amazon.Any help?
You can find my stuff at https://www.goodreads.com/story/show/...
Grixit wrote: "I too would like to get some comments on my writing. I don't have anything published yet, but i do have a work in progress. How do i get more readers? I came to Goodreads because i had seen that it..."Yep, try
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...
Hope this helps,
Gisela
The biggest problem is that we ourselves hesitate or don't seem interested to review fellow authors work. I know review exchange is not allowed on Amazon but for exposure its also helpful if you guys add each other's book on your Goodreads "To Read" shelf and review them.
Mark wrote: "This Goodreads group seems to hit a lot of the items that you guys are talking about. It is new and only has about..."That group also violates Amazon's TOS and you risk your account being banned if you participate. Authors are not allowed to swap reviews, if Amazon finds author review swaps, they will be removed. Not to mention that group only allows 4&5 star reviews to be posted, where to even start with that...?
It's not an author swap. You share your book to the shelf and you pick a book and review it. There are at least 40 books on the shelf. And the rule is, if you don't like it, don't review it. An author swap would be if I reviewed your book and you review mine. And with the money I spend on Amazon, if my account got banned for that they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. Plenty of people ask friends to read and write reviews on books. Are your friends going to write a bad review? It's no different.
I would hope that my friends would have the integrity to write a bad review if they really thought my writing was bad.
Shannon wrote: "It's not an author swap. You share your book to the shelf and you pick a book and review it...."Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
Call it what you want, but its a group for authors to give each other positive reviews on Amazon.
My friends and family never review my books. They are my support, not my reviewers. My reviews come from sales, the one thing that authors in these type of threads seem to ignore. Sell books and you get organic reviews. It's a myth that you need reviews to sell books. You don't need any reviews to run AMS, FB or BB ads. You just need a bit of time and effort to target your audience. It also relies on having a polished product that people want to buy, even if it has zero reviews.
Really? Because I had a troll review both my books on Amazon. A customer that had only previously done reviews for games reviewed both my books in the same day (455 pages and 250 pages) saying that both were poorly written, horrible, reads like a homework assignment. Not a verified purchaser of either and it's only available on Kindle. If you thought I wrote so badly, why would you then read my second book? I do get involved in a lot of political discussions on Facebook and Twitter, so I figured this was someone I pissed off. But Amazon would not remove the reviews. Interesting that they're gung ho to remove positive reviews which would get THEM sales but will leave a clearly fake negative review.
A.W. wrote: "Mark wrote: "This Goodreads group seems to hit a lot of the items that you guys are talking about. It is new and only has about..."That group also violates Amazon's TOS and you risk your account ..."
I agree with you Mark. I was a part of 2 review groups, did my due diligence before I joined and last night, I left one. The roup as mentioned up above, only allows 4 and 5 star ratings. I know it bites to get a low rating but you cannot guarantee 4 and 5 star ratings. It's unethical. The least you can do if you have a review group, is to allow people to honestly review books. You also should not skip reviewing a book after reading it because the group determines anything less than 4-stars should be sent as a private message. As an Indie author myself, I've received one star rating and it bites but such is life and I move on. When we do this, we do an injustice to being Indie and other readers who later buy the book, are always quick to point out that the other reviews must be fake. I recently left a 4 star review in the group for a reader, but included areas where I felt the author could work on. I was promptly contacted by the admin to consider changing the review as it was disappointing. That should be a no-no and we need to be careful as authors or one of these days, Amazon is gonna kick Indie unless you have editors etc. If you are participating in review exchange groups, the least you can do is allow the readers to give their honest opinion. Indie authors also won't learn and improve if we give each other ratings we do not deserve. I've had all the stars in a review and each of them contained things I am able to later look back on and improve.
Well, one drawback I found in that group is no one is reading or reviewing mine probably because it's around 250 pages versus all the other selections that are a lot shorter.
Hi Authors and Readers alike,Could someone speak to those of us who danced to the beat of a different drum and published on Smashwords or elsewhere?
I hear a lot of Amazon being touted and understandably so. I liked the Smashwords "coupon program" but am having mixed feelings about it three weeks into my publishing experience.
Some readers are saying they cannot redeem their coupon code while others are having no problem. Of course, I don't know the reason for the variance.
I did look at the Review Group deciding not to join it because of not being published directly on Amazon. Something more broad-based with generalized reader/reviewer participation would appeal. Thanks.
Cheers,
David Russell
David wrote: "Hi Authors and Readers alike,Could someone speak to those of us who danced to the beat of a different drum and published on Smashwords or elsewhere?
I hear a lot of Amazon being touted and unders..."
You cannot afford to ignore Amazon; they have half the market. You should set up your own accounts on Amazon .com and Amazon.co.uk See also, Author.central on both.
Don't give them 'sole distribution rights'.
Whatever, you will end up doing your own promotion and advertising anyway - regardless of Smashwords or Amazon.
Posting here is probably off-topic anyway.
Honeysuckle, and others, If I pushed the envelope, sorry, but it seemed appropriate to ask "thee question" since it's my understanding GoodReads caters to all. If that too is in error, sorry.David
David wrote: "Honeysuckle, and others, If I pushed the envelope, sorry, but it seemed appropriate to ask "thee question" since it's my understanding GoodReads caters to all. If that too is in error, sorry.David"
I am sorry if my answer was ambiguous. When I said not here, I meant not in this topic 'which is a discussion on promotors that do/don't produce results'. You should start a new topic.
Also, I am a Smashwords user. The coupons codes work very well.
Some other battles you should be aware of:
1. Goodreads is no longer independent. Goodreads is owned by Amazon. The politics are bleeding through.
2. The traditional book industry is fighting a rearguard battle with the new Ebook industry.
C.S. wrote: "Sean wrote: "Hello all,I am a self-published author, and like many, I've struggled to obtain reviews. Yes, I've emailed and submitted to countless bloggers who so graciously review books for free..."
C.S., you wrote,
"... and you don't have to send print copies..."
Please abandon that thought. While you may save money you are losing time.
Here is why from a top reviewer, I also recommend my books for other tips.
To other US-reviewers, I always send out print copies; I always get my reviews quickly. The reason is simple - ebooks get "buried" among hundreds of others on a Kindle.
In contrast, a p-book with a good looking cover already looks enticing. Also, it's much harder to "overlook" a p-book that's lying on a desk than an ebook on an e-reader.
Hope this helps.
Gisela
PS: Forgot to mention that I do send ebook review copies to foreign bloggers and reviewers; these days, snail mail is either ridiculously expensive or slow.
Thank you for setting the record straight for me concerning GoodReads. A big sigh follows for self-regrouping.Rather than send EBook files, I am sending potential reviewers the pre-published edit of my anthology with their knowledge of the same. I did find out Smashworeds prints Reviews but only from book purchasers. I know some writing acquaintances nudged me to go Amazon but I made the other choice for highly personal reasons. Next time, I will perhaps be more flexible.
David
Gisela, I'm just reporting my experience - Librarything ebook giveaways worked for me and was super easy.
Denise wrote: "Shannon wrote: "And the rule is, if you don't like it, don't review it. "I wouldn't belong to any group that asked me to only provide good reviews. I think this is poor practice for Self-Publishe..."
I'm coming in late to this discussion but I'd like to say a hearty "Yea & Amen" to what you've written.
Reviews are for the readers and purchasers of the books, and I feel it's important to be honest. Kind, mind you, but honest.
As a purchaser and reader, I glance through all the 5-star "This is just the greatest book!" reviews and find reviewers I think are really being honest. If they are saying the same thing --- poorly edited, weak plot, unsatisfying ending, etc--- I take it seriously.
I went with the, "Don't write a review unless you liked the book" idea for a time, but I have been told that even if the reviews are unfavorable they still count with Amazon, that the number of reviews is important as well as the number of stars. Is this correct or no?
Have you ever bought an interesting-sounding book where the reviews are half good and half bad, and you wanted to see which half are right?
I wish you well. Breaking through the "noise" to finally reach a potential audience has never been more difficult. I agree obtaining objective, timely reviews is important.What you might find more valuable is actually creating a "Book Club" for self-published Authors.
The equivalent of Onlinebookclub but with the emphasis on promoting Authors and their works for those who become followers of the site.
TOR - the Dark Web - has been doing something very similar for today's struggling journalist who can't break through to the Main Stream Media.
Attracting self-published Authors willing to promote their passion for an upfront fee and then minor percentage of click through purchases is today a viable business model.
Play it forward two years and you might find yourself with 100,000 subscribers at 9.99/year and a couple hundred very satisfied self-publishing Authors who finally are selling their work.
Richard wrote: "I wish you well. Breaking through the "noise" to finally reach a potential audience has never been more difficult. I agree obtaining objective, timely reviews is important.What you might find mor..."
Well, Richard,
there are only a few problems with this "review club"-thing.
a) if readers don't buy the books their reviews are non verified.
b) an abundance of non verified reviews is bound to kill sales. By now everybody and their grandmothers has heard about fake reviews, hence when readers see a book on Amazon that has 1 verified review and 8 non verified reviews, what are they going to think?
c) there are already hundreds of review clubs that produce non verified reviews by the thousands, w/ most reviews written in part by desperate authors. Plus, all review clubs compete with Bookbub, et al.
=> the only way authors will be noticed is by approaching their target group which should not be 'other authors' but "readers.'
Also, let's not forget that these review clubs led to Amazon making non verified reviews not visible by default. Did anybody really think that Amazon was going to hire people to sift through millions of reviews produced by reviews clubs, to satisfy the requirements of the FTC?
Nope, they made non verified reviews non visible be default and let customers decide. Who are the same people who had read about millions of fake reviews in the last 5 yrs.
The review clubs made things more difficult not easier.
Christine wrote: "Denise wrote: "Shannon wrote: "And the rule is, if you don't like it, don't review it. "I wouldn't belong to any group that asked me to only provide good reviews. I think this is poor practice fo..."
Honestly, I don't look at the reviews before buying a book. I look at them after to see if people felt the same way about the book that I did. I know that isn't the norm.
Gisela wrote: "When readers see a book on Amazon that has one verified review and eight non-verified reviews, what are they going to think?"My response to that:
I'll think they borrowed the book from a library, read it, and kindly wrote a review. Been there, done that, quite a few times. I just can't afford to buy all the books I want to read.
I haven't done it so much lately, though, since Amazon has gotten sticky in that dept.
I used to buy my books from Barnes & Noble and then write reviews on Amazon. Now I have a Kindle though so all my reviews are verified.
I'm a self-published author as well. Right now, I'm severely struggling to get noticed and gain more reviews and ratings for my books. Somehow, I'm completely invisible here in Goodreads and that just makes me want to quit writing even though I don't want to. I tried everything to get noticed here in Goodreads and Amazon and nothing is helping me. I don't know what to do. If I don't stop struggling for reviews and ratings in my books, I don't know what I'll do to myself.
I just self-published my first book on Amazon and can't seem to get anyone to even look at it, let alone get a review. Same goes here on Goodreads. I even put the first chapter up on Wattpad in hopes someone will see it but nothing yet. If anyone has any ideas please let me know.https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...
https://www.wattpad.com/user/Timeknig...
Nicole wrote: "I'm a self-published author as well. Right now, I'm severely struggling to get noticed and gain more reviews and ratings for my books. Somehow, I'm completely invisible here in Goodreads and that j..."OK. I will tackle your last statement first. "I don't know what I'll do to myself." This is emotional blackmail and only a fool would respond to it. So I am that fool.
In fact your entire statement sounds like a suicide letter, and that should be in your novel. It is not the way to write to speak to your fellow authors.
Now as to the rest of your statement:
I'm a self-published author as well.
- ok, where? what genres? Help will only come if you make it easy for others to find out about you.
Right now, I'm severely struggling to get noticed and gain more reviews and ratings for my books.
- We are all in that boat. I suggest you reread this group right from the beginning to see what works and what doesn't.
Somehow, I'm completely invisible here in Goodreads
- NO, I see you.
and that just makes me want to quit writing even though I don't want to.
- now you are just talking poo. You love writing!
I tried everything to get noticed here in Goodreads and Amazon and nothing is helping me.
- so tell us what you did.
I don't know what to do.
- you just did it!
If I don't stop struggling for reviews and ratings in my books,
- try following Mark Dawson on Self Publishing Formula. His podcasts are very helpful.
I don't know what I'll do to myself.
- been there, done it, got the T-shirt. Statements like that don't work. As an author, you can do better.
Honeysuckle wrote: "Nicole wrote: "I'm a self-published author as well. Right now, I'm severely struggling to get noticed and gain more reviews and ratings for my books. Somehow, I'm completely invisible here in Goodr..."I agree with you... ☺
I am a self-published author, and like many, I've struggled to obtain reviews. Yes, I've emailed and submitted to countless bloggers who so graciously review books for free. However, because they are free, these bloggers are consistently inundated with review requests, and I personally have had a hard time hearing back from a vast majority of them. I am also not willing to fork over the relatively high fees for some of the paid review sites out there like Kirkus, BlueInk, or IndieReader.
I am hoping to start a website that provides a solution to this problem. If anybody else out there has encountered the same issue as I have, I'd love to hear from you .Obviously, you are not committing to using or signing up, or anything of the sort for my potential website. I'm simply hoping to hear from others and learn from your experiences in this search.
If you are going through the same struggle, please feel free to respond to this thread (ideally with your email contact if you're comfortable sharing it) or shoot me an email at hudsonbaybookcontact@gmail.com. Thanks, and happy writing!