What's the general consensus on Catelyn Stark?

[Petergiaquinta]

Gentle, eh? When exactly was that? And boy are you in for a surprise...

[Barnana]

Hannah wrote: "Barnana wrote: "How come she treats Ned better than Jon when Ned's the one that actually cheated on her?That never made sense to me.Also I don't really remember her feeling remorseful about mistrea..."

I suppose that makes sense.But punishing an innocent child for something he had no part in still seems a little harsh to me.

[Mitali]

I never thought Catelyn 'punished' Jon in any way. The only interaction between them we actually see is when she lashes out at him when Bran is in a coma. While what she says to him is unfair, it's also understandable that she overreacts in her grief over her own child. In any case, there's no indication that that's how she normally treated him. Under normal circumstances, she must have been just indifferent to him. Which is fine - nobody is under any obligation to love their stepchildren.

Catelyn is a woman who accepts and lives by the rules of her deeply misogynistic culture, in which a woman has worth only in terms of her husband and children. She naturally puts all her energies into caring for them, and has little left over for anyone who doesn't fall into these categories.

[Elisa Santos]

Mitali, it´s true we dont´s see any other interaction between her and Jon aside that one cene, but we can see how the story is told when Jon´s POV is written and also when she feels guilty because she finds the Mya Stone bastard girl sweet and nice and she feels a pnag of remorse for how she treated Jon, but she brushed off that feeling, and doesn´t persue it.

She is caring and loving, aside that briskness towards Jon.

[Ulca]

Mitali wrote: "I never thought Catelyn 'punished' Jon in any way. The only interaction between them we actually see is when she lashes out at him when Bran is in a coma. While what she says to him is unfair, it's..."

Yes, the only interaction we saw was when Bran fell, but we can see in her thoughts that she has no love for Jon, she even compare Jon to Theon in a conversation with Rob (in the third book), I didn't liked. Even in a misogynistic culture, I can't conceive a mother who knows the meaning of a mother's love to a son, not expend a little of that love to a motherless child (the husband is the one to blame). I admire her ferocity and loyalty towards her children and people that she love, but I can't find in me the will to forget or forgive the Jon thing, but I may forgive her if she change in the future.

For me, using the misogynistic culture is not a good excuse, then we would say that the natural reaction that Ned should have taken was to let Robert's wrath fall on Cersei and on her children in order to wash Robert's honor (although we all know that he paid that price with his head, but we can understand where his heart was at the time). And Robert, certainly would have killed them all, including the "children" for being bastards of the queen. And if we use the misogynistic culture as an excuse, would be understandable and expectable for Ned to let Robert kill them all and wash his honor stained by the queen.

A good heart transcends time and the culture in which the person is inserted or at least I like to think so.

She is not my favorite caracter, but I can see that she is a strong caracter in the book serie.

[Mitali]

Mary Ann wrote: "Mitali wrote: "I never thought Catelyn 'punished' Jon in any way. The only interaction between them we actually see is when she lashes out at him when Bran is in a coma. While what she says to him ..."

Sorry, but I disagree completely. Just because Catelyn finds herself unexpectedly saddled with a stepson, she has no reason to be a mother to him if she doesn't want to be. She didn't abuse him or anything - he was given the same kind of upbringing as her own children. Beyond that, she had no obligations towards him. Would she have been a better person if she could have loved him? Yes of course. But that doesn't mean that she was a bad person for not loving him. Would I be a better person if I gave money to charity more often? Yes - but that doesn't mean I'm a bad person because I give money to charity only rarely.

I don't even see how Robert's possible reaction towards Cersei's children has anything to do with this. The two things aren't remotely connected.

I mentioned the misogynistic culture as a way of understanding how Catelyn thinks and why. It was not meant as an all-out excuse for any bad behaviour. In order to understand a character, you have to see her in context of the culture she lives in.

[Ravenswan]

All the characters in A Song of Ice and Fire are pretty flawed but despite this a lot of them are very likable. I mean, Jaime is humping his sister which is gross but he's a really interesting character. then you've got Arya Stark who is becoming a really bloodthirsty bitch despite starting out as a total good guy. I think there are hardly any truly good or evil characters as far as the pov characters go. I think by the end of the book some 'bad" characters will redeem themselves and some "good" characters we will come to despise. As for Catelyn I'm very torn because I identified with her (being the only non psycho Mum) but as with many of you I agree her treatment of Jon was unacceptable. As for some of her other poor decisions, well she didn't having the benefit of us readers and watchers who knew what every other character was up to. Incidentally, I think she did love Eddard as some of her thoughts in the book point to this bit I don't recall anything that definitely made me think he loved her back.
I really wish I knew who Jon Snows real Mum was though!

[Rebeca]

I either love or hate Catelyn...
When it comes to her family I do enjoy that she's loyal and does everything in her power to protect her own. However, I really hate the way she treats Jon, but I do understand.
She doesn't see Jon as "her own", which he isn't, so to her there's no need to be nice to him or even to acknowledge him.
That is what House Tully stands for: "Family, Duty, Honor", she was taught to act this way.
She puts up with Jon because of these things and the love she has for Ned, which by the way I do admire.

[Ravenswan]

I agree but it's very cold to hate a child for what they represent and totally ignoring any aspect of them as a human being.

[Asís]

Scott wrote: "In the book, she's a total scumbag to Jon Snow. But there are indications she regrets this, so I'm torn on her."

what indications???

[Matthew]

Inês wrote: "i liked her, because she was a great mom for her children and wanted their protection and has a strategic mind for the best.

However, i don't like the way she treat jon snow.Is not the kids fault ..."

Catelyn resents Jon Snow because he is a constant reminder that Ned cheated her once upon a time. Although, this is coming to be more and more contested by the ever-popular fan theory known as R+L=J (look it up ;))

[Matthew]

Petergiaquinta wrote: "What do you suppose that WORD is?

Maybe there's another discussion thread for this, but clearly you've thought about it. You want to share those thoughts???"

Everybody knows that the bird is the word. Sorry, couldn't resist. But from what I've heard, the word was in fact "sword". Not sure what this entails or why that would save Brienne from execution at the hands of Lady Stoneheart, but that was the consensus.

[Iris]

Matthew wrote: "Petergiaquinta wrote: "What do you suppose that WORD is?

Maybe there's another discussion thread for this, but clearly you've thought about it. You want to share those thoughts???"

Everybody know..."

'Sword', as in she swore Catelyn the use of her sword and Catelyn is cashing in. She has ordered the death of Jamie.

[Matthew]

Iris wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Petergiaquinta wrote: "What do you suppose that WORD is?

Maybe there's another discussion thread for this, but clearly you've thought about it. You want to share those thoughts???"..."

Ah, so you're saying she is actively pursuing a "kill Jaime" strategy? That does make for an interesting twist. Thank you for spoiling it for me! ;)

[Andrea]

I think your feelings on catelyn will depend heavily on how you feel about Jon in A Game of Thrones. If you sympathize with him from the start, Catelyn taken on a different cast. Personally, if I had to deal, everyday, with a living, breathing representation of my husbands inability to keep his s**t in his breeches, I would be a little upset as well. However, taking Tyrion hostage, during the ascension of Ned as the hand? Political suicide. I agree. But here she s thinking the little bastard tried to kill her baby. What would you do? Rash? Sure. Plot forwarding device? But of course.

[Matthew]

Andrea wrote: "I think your feelings on catelyn will depend heavily on how you feel about Jon in A Game of Thrones. If you sympathize with him from the start, Catelyn taken on a different cast. Personally, if I h..."

"s**t in his breeches"? That's an interesting idiom for infidelity ;)

[Iris]

Matthew wrote: "Iris wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Petergiaquinta wrote: "What do you suppose that WORD is?

Maybe there's another discussion thread for this, but clearly you've thought about it. You want to share those..."

sorry =( it's just one of the theories. I could be wrong.

[Petergiaquinta]

Your theory is as good as any other right now...no need to apologize for it!

Matthew, whose "consensus" is it that the word is "sword"?

[C. G.]

My view of the woman is that she is ambitious, and as soon as the chance to put her daughter on the throne presents itself, she is all over it and drives Ned relentlessly toward that ambition. When it all falls apart, she gives horrible advice, she contradicts her son, she goes behind her son's back, and she more or less stabs him in the back to get her own way. Selfish, selfish, selfish, and the more I think of it, off center mentally, and I mean before her kids start dying. she's not right in the head, anymore than her bat shit crazy sister is. Her decision to kidnap Tyrion is absolutely loony. I think from that early point onward, you can't trust her motives or decision making ability at all. It's all for her and none for anyone else. Insisting on going to King's Landing to influence Ned is disastrous. I could go on for days and days, but you get the point. She's no saint.

[Michaela]

Her sister was indeed bat shit crazy! Thank George Martin for killing her off as well!

[Hiro]

Hmm I find her parts a little more boring than the others and wanted to get it over with, but other than that she's okay

[Ad.costas]

SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!



She hates everyone now, but even before she died she hated 2 of my favorite people in the book, Jon and Tyrion.
Can't say I'm happy about that.
Also, she was really bad in politics. Her actions (Tyrion, Jamie) and advice (Robb) were not helpful at all. People who don't know what they are doing, but insist on doing it get on my nerves. At least she's killing some scum now.
Although I dislike her, she is a character that advances the plot, a useful tool, like so many others, that advanced the plot and were killed off. I can't wait to see what will happen when she meets Jamie again, which will probably be the next time we read about him.

[Brent]

all you people should finish the books.and just remember enjoy them for what they are fantasy books, if you want to analyze something analyze your school books.

[Jeanine]

Brent wrote: "all you people should finish the books.and just remember enjoy them for what they are fantasy books, if you want to analyze something analyze your school books."

BRAVO!!

[Ad.costas]

Brent and Jeanine did you not read the title of this discussion?

Someone has started this thread and is actually asking for our opinion,so yes I will analyze as much as I want.
If you do not care about what all these people in the thread have to say you should not read it. I don't understand why you have the need to join this conversation just to dismiss and patronize the people who took the time to write.

[Nathan]

Jeanine wrote: "Brent wrote: "all you people should finish the books.and just remember enjoy them for what they are fantasy books, if you want to analyze something analyze your school books."

BRAVO!!"

It's spelled Braavos. Gosh. Did you even read the books?

[Kenneth]

I'm torn. On the one hand, things would have gone a lot better for everyone if Robb and Ned had listened to her. On the other, she was for too quick to jump to conclusions and capture Tyrion, which was basically the spark that sent the whole kingdom up in flames.

[C. G.]

Brent wrote: "all you people should finish the books.and just remember enjoy them for what they are fantasy books, if you want to analyze something analyze your school books."

I'd love to be able to finish the series, but Mr. Martin is not cooperating. As for analyzing, it's fun to pick it apart and tear it down and see what makes it tick. Millions of people have read this series and virtually everyone has a slightly different take on the events and how they come together, what influenced who, what would be better, what's the best/worst, etc. It's a fantastic experience for readers everywhere.