Small Government Book Fan Club discussion
Beating my head against the wall
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It's a discussion and they were trying to defend their positions...this just never seemed to occur to them. Frustrating.
If you have ever watched Bob Beckel on the "FIVE" it's obvious that the man has a low I.Q. It is also understandable why he believes in Liberalism.
I watch The 5 most days..or at least most of it. FOX News tends to be on as I do "stuff" and when I have to sit down I watch. Other times I might be listening. It's not Bob's argument so much as the fact that out of 4 other people NOBODY pointed out an obvious and simple logical flaw.
I know that I'll generally disagree with Bob (he's a refugee from the Clinton administration). It's the people supposedly countering his points that concern me.
I also wonder about Alan Combs for that matter. There are times I wonder if he actually believes the drek he argues. He sometimes argues things that simply fly in the face of common sense and (as mentioned before) logic and at times no one seems to spot that. "Left wingers" argue much as I remember sophomores in high school arguing with absurd nonsensical assumptions and almost never get called on it.
Well Ann Coulter occasionally does and so do a few others. I assume Rush still does though I haven't listened to him regularly for a while...they get called "mean" and no one listens or reads as "everybody already knows they're bad people". This is mostly known and talked about by people who don't read or listen to them.
I tend to pay most attention to Charles Krauthammer for domestic affairs, and John Bolten on international affairs. Shawn Hannity is too far right, and Alan Combs may not be from this planet. There is something really alien about him.
Robert wrote: "I tend to pay most attention to Charles Krauthammer for domestic affairs, and John Bolten on international affairs. Shawn Hannity is too far right, and Alan Combs may not be from this planet. There..."Agree 100% on Bolton. If he was Sec State with a President that gave a crap, the world would not be burning. Krauthammer on the other hand, I will respectfully disagree with. If you listen to him carefully you'll hear the little Canadian poke it's head out now and then. He likes to defer to Gov as having the answer to problems. The great thing about being a conservative is you can be your own hero on Conservative issues. My standard is a simple one. The answer to most any problem, I say most, is to remove the Law, remove the regulation, return it to the private sector, shut down the Gov entity, make it all smaller and more efficient. Show me the person that shares my ideals and I will allow him to work for me. I look up to none of them, I look across and occasionally I look at them out of the corner of my eye.
While that's a strength (free thought as to the leader we like most) it also tends to be why we keep getting presidents who are so left wing. The Dems pick their candidate early and most get behind him or her. the conservatives (most of us register Republican as it's the other "major party") line up behind a dozen different candidates, beat each other's brains out during the primaries and then we end up with another "Milquetoast"...a Democrat light.We need a Reagan.
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I voted for the Republican candidate in both of the last 2 presidential elections, that in spite of them being "the lesser of two evils". I was frankly surprised that President Obama was voted back in for a second term. You're right. People sat home.
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Masha wrote: "There is a solution (aside from, as I keep trying to pound into everyone's head, working on changing the culture). IF you get involved in politics in any way as an activist, do it on a local level...."Amen, I watched our County GOP go from stogy it's my old GOP country club to battling small l libertarian Tea party types in four years. We took over everything. The Old guard was pissed and upset. They couldn't figure out why we couldn't just shut up and go along. It went from 5-6 people meeting in a library to 40-50 in a restaurant banquet room. It went from GOP HQ in someones spare bedroom to our own building. What I never expected was, It's a lot of fun. You also get to see up close the filth that is the GOP. You get to see underhanded redistricting aimed at shutting your candidate down because he's not a good old boy.You get to see Washington money and filth like Eric Cantor showing up in the state house with a pocket full of money and choosing your candidate. Then their candidate that they foisted on you loses after you have spent four years working for and with an actual conservative candidate. If you get a close up look at what GOP really is, you won't be a fan. It's very educational.
Jack wrote: "Masha wrote: "There is a solution (aside from, as I keep trying to pound into everyone's head, working on changing the culture). IF you get involved in politics in any way as an activist, do it on ..."
So true. Get involved at the state and local level. Here in PA we're working on getting unions out of politics. We're in the process of barraging Harrisburg with calls, emails, letters and tweets, to make sure they know we want the bill passed. Our Reps in Harrisburg say the Union supporters and other Dems have always done what we're doing now, and they need to hear from people, so they know we'll stand behind them.
Our State is organized on twitter, with the #PATCOT hash tag. Last night, Michelle Malkin retweeted a tweet addressed to Rep Turzai, telling him to bring the bill for a vote.
We have to effect change from the bottom up, and suffer the nastiness from the progs, both online and in person, at times.
So true. Get involved at the state and local level. Here in PA we're working on getting unions out of politics. We're in the process of barraging Harrisburg with calls, emails, letters and tweets, to make sure they know we want the bill passed. Our Reps in Harrisburg say the Union supporters and other Dems have always done what we're doing now, and they need to hear from people, so they know we'll stand behind them.
Our State is organized on twitter, with the #PATCOT hash tag. Last night, Michelle Malkin retweeted a tweet addressed to Rep Turzai, telling him to bring the bill for a vote.
We have to effect change from the bottom up, and suffer the nastiness from the progs, both online and in person, at times.
One of my dem friends correctly pointed out that we have generally voted for the most charismatic candidate in most of the last several elections. Think about it: Reagan/Carter, Reagan/Mondale, Clinton/Bush V1, Bush V2/Gore, Bush V2/Kerry, Obama/McCain, Obama/Romney. I think it's disappointing that the voting electorate tends to overvalue charisma compared to things like executive experience, but it is reality. If we put up someone that lacks charisma again, we should expect to lose and lose badly. Sad fact but true!
Jerry wrote: If we put up someone that lacks charisma again, we should expect to lose and lose badly. Sad fact but true!Indeed sad, but very true. In advance of our current president's first election I predicted his win (to my huge disappointment and dismay) months before November. Why? He's a gifted orator, and just sounded more "presidential" than anybody the Republicans could put forth. I told my Dem friends (and yes, I have some, although we rarely agree on much) that the Fall election would wind up mostly a "beauty contest," and Obama would clearly win one of those. Few cared about indications of his core beliefs or character (which to me are more important than executive experience). He was a minority, and sounded great! Thus we got a left-wing liar. *sigh* (Instead of a right-wing one?) Ah, the wonders of having an "informed electorate."
I remember at the poles that year as i was walking out after voting three young women walking out behind me giggling over their vote for candidate Obama. I told them that if they voted for Obama they deserved what they got.I could tell they had no idea what I meant.
The problem is...do the rest of us deserve what they voted for????
Oh well. As you said the wonders of an informed electorate.
All voters should have to answer a basic questionnaire before voting for the highest office in the U.S. Nothing complicated, just basic questions such as who was the last president and who is the current speaker of the house, etc? Everyone should have to show proper I.D. before they can vote and read English. No exceptions!Of course this will never happen as long as there is the party of the unhinged, the liberals.
Does anyone else think Michelle Obama is going to run. They are not going to like being out of the White House and she does have a law degree also Obama is not supporting Hillary anymore for the running.
Bridget wrote: "Does anyone else think Michelle Obama is going to run. Interesting thought, but I'm dubious. I don't see her having the support that Hillary seems to have among the rank and file Dems. I'd love to see a woman in the Oval Office, but where's Margaret Thatcher when we need her?
Too true. (Where's the "Like" button on here?)
I phone-campaigned for Romney, went to a rally for him, and did everything I could to put BHO out of office, even though I was lukewarm about the Mitt. Didn't much care for McCain, either.Now, imagine a different reality: a debate between Herman Cain and BHO. That would have been something to see. We try to put in a conservative black or female candidate---which I wish we had---to get rid of the Historical [hysterical] Vote Factor---and BOOM. Scandal. Took him right out, yeah. No threats allowed for our wonderful BHO.
I felt devastated election night; I have not quite recovered, and haven't figured out how BHO won a second term, save that I know incumbents are very hard to defeat. Evangelicals don't even register, let alone vote. Only about a third got out and went to the polls. (Dennis Prager had a show on it.) If even another third had voted our way, we'd have a different result.
I don't know who the Repubs will put up this time, but the deck is stacked. When we get twitted for even the slightest campaign finance slip---Dinesh D'Sousa will have to spend some jail time, 10-16 months' worth of his valuable life---while the Dem Harry Reid shovels tons of money from campaigns into his daughter's wedding, with no penalty, the deck is stacked. And the media. We won't even go there.
Remember Dr. Floyd Ferris in *Atlas Shrugged* saying that the government *wants* laws to be broken, so they can exercise their power? In the real world, Reardon would have gone to jail. Just like Dinesh.
Here's a thought. Vet Susanna Martinez out the wazoo, and put her in the running with Marco Rubio. Practice her against some of our most intelligent talkers---and have them play liberals. That would get her to learn what she has to do to face the real enemy. Palin had lots of energy, but wasn't experienced with facing a media that gunned for her from day one, so they could make her look like an idiot. I'd love to see Condi run, but I don't think she's interested. We have two years to find somebody, because you damn well know who they're going to bring out for round two of the Historical Vote: the Hill.
I need a shot in the arm on this Independence Day. I'm going to see Dinesh's movie.
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Masha wrote: "Mike (and others): there's a very interesting and borderline subversive discussion going on in the Facebook Group right now RE: Independence Day/Revolution."Yeah. I'm following it, as I'm sure the NSA is as well.
I just bought fat Nancy at the NSA a box of Donuts. I'm sure she's too busy to worry about what we are doing.
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I don't think right now we can nominate a black or a woman without it being seen as pandering, probably rightly so.
Last time around, Rick Perry blew it in the debates because of pain killers, but I'm willing to give him another chance so I hope he runs.
There's nothing wrong with Ted Cruz that I can see, but the establishment Republicans will not let it happen.
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Jack: I like the way you think.
I'm going to continue to Preach the Gospel of my Queen. The words and deeds of the one to the North. I will debunk the lies and half truths of the Media, leftist and uninformed Conservatives that have been sewn into American conscience as fact. You want the one they hate, the one they are afraid of. Not the one they smile about in glowing terms, that is until they win the primary. Think Dole, McCain, Romney and others that couldn't inspire the populace. Now watch them throw Jeb Bush at us. We will eventually have to learn.
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I'm opposed to Jeb Bush not because I have any special hatred for the family, but because he's wrong on too many issues. And surely Republicans are not THAT suicidal.
Masha wrote: "There's nothing wrong with Ted Cruz that I can see, but the establishment Republicans will not let it happen."Masha, I hear you but I hope you're wrong. Ted is my Senator (TX). He's an excellent and articulate speaker who seems level-headed enough (and enough of a politician) to be able to avoid the gaffes that doomed some before him (Dan Quayle, anyone?). Only downside I see -- which might actually help him -- is that he's lacking a track record long enough to be considered a known quantity and dependable. Oh, plus the fact that, as you say, the party power structure sees him as too far to the right.
Masha wrote: "TBH, I think she's better where she is: holding everyone's feet to the fire from the outside. But I would vote for her without a second thought.I'm opposed to Jeb Bush not because I have any spec..."
Cereal? Romney, nice man, smart man, Gov of Mass. One of the biggest Dem strongholds in the country. He was left of JFK and lied repeatedly about where he stands on issues. Had he not he would have never been elected in Mass. The Republicans ARE that suicidal, look what they did in Mississippi. That's a microcosm of the next election.
John wrote: "Masha wrote: "There's nothing wrong with Ted Cruz that I can see, but the establishment Republicans will not let it happen."Masha, I hear you but I hope you're wrong. Ted is my Senator (TX). He'..."
Love me some Ted Cruz.
I'd like a Ted Cruz/Allen West ticket.... I simply can't believe Mrs. Clinton is even in the running, after Benghazi... Just shows the ignorance of many voters. We had a voter ID law in Pa... It was struck down by a liberal judge. I also haven't recovered from the 2012 election. I really hope the GOP establishment gets a clue. If they run Jeb Bush we're done as a country.
Daniella wrote: "I simply can't believe Mrs. Clinton is even in the running, after Benghazi"Oh, come on Daniella. Benghazi?? "At this point, what difference does it make?"
(I'll never forget that "testimony.")
Did you see the reaction most left wingers have to Benghazi??? There's a "really, you buy that" attitude. They've all drunk the Kool-Aid.
We're done as a country regardless of who the republicans run and win. There has been too much damage done by the Obama administration for the country to ever recover. You can thank the universities for brainwashing the past and present generations. I'm not a pessimist but a realist.
A good friend of mine attended a Faith & Freedom event in DC recently. She met Ted Cruz, who will probably run. She heard many speakers & was particularly taken with Bobby Jindahl. Jindahl has a lot going for him-he got Common Core thrown out of Louisiana. I hope we can turn the ship...my friend is a woman if great faith. I asked her for her truthful opinion, on whether she thinks the country can be saved, & she told me "yes", if some of these people who will uphold the Constitution can be elected.
We also need to oust Harry Reid in November. He's running the Senate like a dictator, & he has to go.
Yes, the Liberal attitude toward Benghazi is cult like. They're drunk on Kool Aid.
We also need to oust Harry Reid in November. He's running the Senate like a dictator, & he has to go.
Yes, the Liberal attitude toward Benghazi is cult like. They're drunk on Kool Aid.
Then don't throw in the towel. If we say we're done, then we're done. The thing now is how far down will things have to go before a generation comes along who will stop and question what their being fed.
Parents turned their children over to schools and TV to be brought up at the same time TV and education had been swamped by the left. People who can build and work tend to do so. Conservatives are far more likely to be self sufficient and independent.
So at some point people who believe in responsibility and hard work looked around and realized they were paying universities to brain wash their children.
Overly simple I admit but that's a big part of what we see now. People don't even think the same way Americans used to.
But the voices have to stay there. No one believed a colony could break away from a mother country...much less 13 of them. It had never been done in the history of the world. But it happened.
I may go down swinging, I may end up in trouble for speaking my mind when the First Amendment is gone. I guess I'll see. But as has been said, "You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything."
I think we can turn it around, with the help of Divine Providence. How did a raggle taggle colonial army beat the British? They were under Divine protection. Hope it's ok to speak of Faith here :-)
I still hope the GOP isn't dumb enough to run Jeb Bush... In my op, he would probably lose to Hillary.
Daniella wrote: "I still hope the GOP isn't dumb enough to run Jeb Bush... In my op, he would probably lose to Hillary."Yes, enough with the dynasties. It would be great if we had neither another Bush nor another Clinton in the White House. Nothing against Jeb Bush, but I don't think its healthy for the country to have multi-generational professional politicians running things. It would be great if we could mix it up a bit.
I haven't even been following things. I feel the same way as Robert. I always vote but once things get started they never go back.
Going back to the SCOTUS decision, I don't understand why, as an employer, I have to pay for anything for my employees. Isn't that why I pay them a salary?? But I never hear anyone make that argument. Somehow we have just accepted, as a society, that all employers are just made of money and should furnish everything in life that employees want....
Not to mention a minimum wage of $15 per hour. PLUS benefits. Regardless of productivity level. Don't get me started...
The benefits packages got started "big time" when the government had forced price and wage freezes and employers had to find other ways to hold good employees. Like everything else once the Unions got "uber-powerful" they became entitlements. When I was a tech. the benefits were 'part of the salary". That's the way it should be. No company has to provide health insurance. The problem is the government is tying hands. "If" you offer health insurance, then you have to cover "whatever the government says". What may have to happen is insurance gets dropped and we go back to negotiating.
Of course if things keep on the "government" will simply "order" employers to pay insurance. After all employers can 'afford anything". I can remember when I thought I was flying getting a raise to $5 an hour. Minimum wage now is what an experienced technician got a few years ago...
Ever read Atlas Shrugged? I can't agree with a lot of her philosophy, but you can see her point at times.
It is the Soldier, not the ministerWho has given us freedom of religion.
It is the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the Soldier, not the poet
Who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer
Who has given us freedom to protest.
It is the Soldier, not the lawyer
Who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the Soldier, not the politician
Who has given us the right to vote.
It is the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
Who allows the protester to burn the flag.
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "No company has to provide health insurance. ..."Mike, while technically this is true, the law requires (see the "employer mandate") that all companies with over 50 "full-time equivalent" employees DO provide health care coverage by 2016 or pay a penalty (tax?). That mandate was supposed to kick in this year, but due to the outcry B.O. unilaterally pushed it back two years. So, many employers are analyzing which is more costly: to provide complying coverage, or pay the "tax." All of which, naturally, has to be balanced by their need to attract and retain good, productive employees. I am a (happily retired!) HR manager who had to deal with the ins and outs of health care, coverage, managed care, cost containment, and so on, for decades. Glad to be out of all that before ACA became effective.
Oh, and I love your follow-up post, "The Soldier." Amen.
Yes, I love that "Soldier" post. And we can't ever give up. I saw "America" yesterday (great film; go see it), and bought *Gifted Hands* by Ben Carson. Reading it now. Sonya Carson, Ben's mother, in her forward included a poem that she quoted by Mayme White Miller, called "Yourself to Blame." I won't quote it all, but the last stanza gives the general gist:
You're the captain of your ship.
So agree with the same---
If you travel downward
You have yourself to blame.
Mrs. Carson had so many challenges herself (mental and emotional as well as economic) that her story is as inspiring as her son's. The fact that these two exist gives me hope.
As Rand herself said, "Don't let it go." An even greater Rabbi always reminded His followers, "Let not your heart be troubled, nor let it be afraid." Princes will always fail. It is the individual that counts, and a lot of individuals make up a voting bloc.
We have to figure out how to put the proper candidate with the proper message. Carson, great as he is as a man, is a babe in the woods in terms of politics; he has never held political office, nor directed a huge organization. He has never governed. (He can make a great speech and inspire folks---the job of a VP candidate.) We need someone as POTUS who knows what to do in the trenches, who can hit back when they serve out insults in the press. I don't know who that is, right now. But Cruz and Carson together . . . now that is an interesting idea.
If you're talking Palin, Mike, I agree: she's great at holding peoples' feet to the fire and inspiring.
Beckel is (or was) arguing that Hobby Lobby not having to pay for birth control options that cause the body to reject a fertilized ovum (thus being a type of abortion) is "forcing Hobby Lobby's views of beliefs on their employees". He keeps saying "13000 employees!".
No one, not one of the others pointed out that no one is having Hobby Lobby's views forced on them. That they can still abort their children if they choose to. It only means Hobby Lobby doesn't have to pay for it. Had the decision gone the other way the people forced to "ACT" against their beliefs, their principals would have been Hobby Lobby.
They let his argument stand, it seemed no one (even though they agree with the decision) could see the simple logical flaw in his argument.
He said it was like a strict Jewish employer being able to forbid employees to use electricity or drive on the Sabbath. Nonsense of course. It's comparable to a strict Jewish employer closing on the Sabbath and giving the employees work hours.
Have we gone so far into a left wing mind set that we simply can't see when they set up straw men or leave logic completely behind?
As the heading said, I'm at least figuratively beating my head against the wall.