Changes by Jim Butcher

[Sheri, Bookworm]

We will be starting Monday!

[Sheri, Bookworm]

Wow, this one starts out with a surprise!

[Leigh, ⚔️ Wonder Woman ⚔️]

Yes, I does. WTH! Susan kept a very big secret.

[Lys]

I can't believe that she managed it. And I kinda want to know how she pulled off pregnancy, but can't pull of intimacy with Harry. Just saying.

[Leigh, ⚔️ Wonder Woman ⚔️]

While I can appreciate that Susan thought she was doing the best for her daughter, I think she should have told Harry and made the decision together. She hide her from him and now she wants his help. She has got some nerve!

[Sheri, Bookworm]

So I'm ready to discuss :) I started reading Sunday so I wouldn't get behind and couldn't put it down. I think this is one of my favorites of the series.

Where are both of you? Some things I want to discuss...
Mouse! Love him!

All the rest have to wait until the very end...so don't read my spoiler until you're finished!
(view spoiler)[Susan's death
Martin
The end of the Red Court
Ebenezer being Harry's grandfather
Murphy possibly/probably taking up the sword
Harry and Murphy???
Maggie - maybe she could go live with the Carpenters?
Anything I missed? (hide spoiler)]

[Leigh, ⚔️ Wonder Woman ⚔️]

I'm on chapter 31 so let's discuss. There was so much going on in this one.

I too love Mouse! He totally saves the day multiple times.

[Sheri, Bookworm]

Most of the stuff I want to discuss doesn't actually happen until the last chapter. What do you think so far?

[Leigh, ⚔️ Wonder Woman ⚔️]

I am loving it! I was not happy with Susan's decision to hide Maggie from Harry then expecting him to save the day. WTH! Of course He is going to do everything in his power to save Maggie. Happy to see Thomas again even if not quite himself.

[Leigh, ⚔️ Wonder Woman ⚔️]

Why did the red court take Maggie really? Is it to get Harry or does Maggie have some special gifts?

[Sheri, Bookworm]

Leigh wrote: "Why did the red court take Maggie really? Is it to get Harry or does Maggie have some special gifts?"

That comes out in the last chapter. I would assume she would have some magical talent just because of being Harry's kid.

[Sheri, Bookworm]

Leigh wrote: "I am loving it! I was not happy with Susan's decision to hide Maggie from Harry then expecting him to save the day. WTH! Of course He is going to do everything in his power to save Maggie. Happy to..."

Yeah, Susan pissed me off in this one, especially since I had always liked her. And through most of the book Harry doesn't even seem that upset with her. I get that he still loves her...but I would be way more pissed than him.

[Leigh, ⚔️ Wonder Woman ⚔️]

Sheri wrote: "Leigh wrote: "Why did the red court take Maggie really? Is it to get Harry or does Maggie have some special gifts?"

That comes out in the last chapter. I would assume she would have some magical ..."

That is what I was thinking. I should be finished by tomorrow. We can discuss more. (view spoiler)[What did you think about Harry agreeing to be Mab's Knight? I so thought he would use the sword and become one of the guardians. What is up with Ivy? (hide spoiler)]

[Sheri, Bookworm]

Leigh wrote: "Sheri wrote: "Leigh wrote: "Why did the red court take Maggie really? Is it to get Harry or does Maggie have some special gifts?"

That comes out in the last chapter. I would assume she would have..."

About your spoiler...I kind of knew it was coming because I had read somewhere that it was going to happen eventually. I just didn't know when. Of course he thought it was the only way, and probably was, to save Maggie. I'm interested in the next book now to see what changes with that.

Thomas is pretty awesome in this one, too, even if not back to his old self.

[Leigh, ⚔️ Wonder Woman ⚔️]

Thomas did help out and warned Molly but she didn't listen. Go figure.

[Lys]

I'm a little ahead, but not as much as Sheri.
I think that there must be a member of Harry's family that he doens't know about. Unless the target is the Raith family?
It seems like a lot of trouble otherwise.
I just finished the section with the (view spoiler)[ lord of the hunt. (hide spoiler)]
I felt it took too long.

[Sheri, Bookworm]

Alyssia wrote: "I'm a little ahead, but not as much as Sheri.
I think that there must be a member of Harry's family that he doens't know about. Unless the target is the Raith family?
It seems like a lot of trouble..."

That was one scene I'm not sure where it really fit into the rest of the book. Like it was there just for the action role - unless it comes up later in another book.

[Leigh, ⚔️ Wonder Woman ⚔️]

That tends to happen in this series and others where we question why information or scenes are part of the story.

[Sheri, Bookworm]

I just finished the short story that comes after Changes. It was my favorite one. Not necessarily because of the story itself, but because it was narrated by Murphy, which was pretty awesome.

[Lys]

I still haven't finished Changes. :(

[Sheri, Bookworm]

I started early since I'm always behind, too. I'm amazed that I was still able to finish early :)

[Leigh, ⚔️ Wonder Woman ⚔️]

WTH! What an ending! Can we discuss now? Martin? Did you see that coming? I didn't trust him but I didn't see that coming. Murphy kicked a$$!

[Sheri, Bookworm]

I love Murphy in this book (you need to read the short stories Leigh - start with the last one that comes after this book! It's called Aftermath).

Alyssia's not finished, but we can discuss with spoilers :)

[Sheri, Bookworm]

Here's the questions/comments I had...

(view spoiler)[What do you think about Susan's death - like the fact that Harry killed her? I sort of knew she would have to die eventually, I mean she was half vampire and she seemed to struggle a lot with it - at least around Harry. But I'm not sure...maybe it would have been better if she would have scarified herself instead of having Harry do it?

Martin - I didn't see it coming, but I wasn't really surprised either. And the end of the Red Court - who is going to be the big bad enemy now?

Ebenezer being Harry's grandfather - Alyssia had guessed right about there being another family member. I hadn't even thought about that. But, I liked the fact that everybody wasn't actually out to get Harry - in fact, the whole kidnapping thing really didn't have anything to do with him. It takes him out of the center of the universe.

Murphy possibly/probably taking up the sword AND Harry and Murphy??? I think they work great together, but as a couple? (hide spoiler)]

[Leigh, ⚔️ Wonder Woman ⚔️]

(view spoiler)[Susan's death at Harry's hands will haunt him. Was it necessary? Yes but I agree why didn't she do it herself.

I always thought Martin would betray Harry but didn't see him betraying Susan. In the end Martin got what he wanted...the end of the Red Court.

Loved seeing Murphy with the sword! She is the rightful owner. Murphy and Harry make a great team!

I love the scene with Butters where he electrocuted the hitman.

Sad about Maggie.

Thomas was more like himself. Loved it! (hide spoiler)]

[Leigh, ⚔️ Wonder Woman ⚔️]

What is going to happen with Harry?

[Sheri, Bookworm]

Alyssia! What is your take on all the stuff at the end? Susan, Martin, Ebenezer, etc.?

[Lys]

Oh man. I had a lot of mixed feels. :P

So... Martin's whole thing didn't quite make sense to me. I think I get what it was supposed to be... but I don't really understand how Martin could have forseen particular things the way Harry seems to think he did. And anyways, why not just vamp out and kill yourself then, Martin? Why betray the Order if you really wanted the death of the Red Court? Like.. I don't know. I liked the idea of the betrayal, but maybe not the execution?

Ebenezer as Harry's grandfather is cute. On the other hand, I liked Ebenezer a little more when his affection for Harry wasn't based on something so ... patriarchal? Like.. son of my spirit, rather than son of my blood? It was a little bit of a bummer on that level. But Ebenezer is cool.

more in a moment, my computer needs restarted. :)

[Lys]

I thought that Harry killing Susan was a foregone conclusion. I am sorta glad that it happened literally on the altar, and not just in the 'i just caused you to go beserk and become a full vampire' way that it seemed like it would be.
It will go well with Harry's whole. 'oh no, i've become a monster' complex. I liked that he had to be the one to do it, for story purposes.
At the same time, I think she could have done it herself, and the reasoning for why she couldn't was pretty shoddy.
Also, when he kissed her? Why didn't she like ... nom on him? And where's all the super vampire healing that should have come about with all that blood in her system?

[Lys]

What are your thoughts on Harry dying?

I adore Thomas. I want to hear more from him. I've just started Aftermath, but I'm pretty annoyed that Murphy isn't contacting Harry's allies and friends?

[Sheri, Bookworm]

I saw the post but didn't comment when I read it. I was going to come back later and comment :)

I wasn't surprised about Susan. I agree with you that having Harry do it is going to go well with his whole guilt complex that he has. No harm to women and children - but oops, I killed one.

I agree with you about Ebenezer. I liked that he watched out for Harry just because he was a good guy. Though I'm sure it was done just to show Harry that he's not as alone as he thought in the world...

Harry dying. Interesting, but of course you know he can't actually die - not for good anyway. There are still three or four more books after this one!

Did you finish Aftermath. I liked having Murphy's POV. She is pretty kick ass.

[Sheri, Bookworm]

Oh and Maggie...should go live with the Carpenters.

[Lys]

Sheri wrote: "Oh and Maggie...should go live with the Carpenters."

That's what I thought too!
OMG THAT MADE ME SO MAD!

like, really harry? REALLY?
just send her away with no sense of where to, when you have people in town who would help you keep her safe?
Did you learn NOTHING?
let's see, here: thomas, murphy, the carpenters, +many other allies.
elsewhere: you won't even know she's in danger

hmmm... tough choice.

[Sheri, Bookworm]

Lol, I thought of Murphy, too, but the Carpenters would make more sense. They probably wouldn't even notice an extra kid running around :D

[Leigh, ⚔️ Wonder Woman ⚔️]

Didn't Harry learn anything from what Susan did? She sent Maggie away and look how well that turned out.

I agree Carpenter's would be a good choice.

[Leigh, ⚔️ Wonder Woman ⚔️]

I like Ebenezer. I did like that he was the only one taking up for Harry for what we thought was out of the goodness of his heart. Now that we know he is Harry's grandfather I'm torn. I'm happy that Harry has more family but wish Ebenezer wouldn't have kept it a secret.

[Lys]

I don't even mean living with .. like living with Thomas? Disaster. But nearby allies ready to swoop in and help? That's a boon.
Otherwise, she's off who knows where.
Maybe she gets the flu and dies and you never even know.
How is that better??!?!
It was a really dumb idea.

Yes, I finished Aftermath.

Butcher was really on a kids and babies streak, wasn't he?