09/2017 Apparitions Ghosts of Old Ido, by Miyuki Miyabe

[Carol]

This thread is for our September discussion of Apparitions: Ghosts of Old Edo by Miyuki Miyabe. We'll start later this week.

[Carol]

So I am on page 70, near the beginning of the third story. I am not a great reader of short stories mostly because I tend to want them to be deeper than they are or can be. I am a fan of Miyabe's style. So far, my overall Impression is .... meh.

Who else has started? Any early comments?

[Tim]

I'm going to go more in depth when I finish the book, but my early thoughts mirror your own. I like a few of the stories but some have been fairly forgettable and one or two more than a touch boring (a bad thing for a ghost story to be). I should have finished it by now, but each time time I decided I'll do more than one story, I hit one of the more tedious ones it seems.

I do like the period details, and I noticed that all the stories I've read thus far have been from the working class... specifically the narrator is always someone in the business, but never a high up even if the ghost is haunting an employer. This I think is a nice touch as, which these are retellings of some classic ghost stories, these stories would often be told by these very same type of people as the narrators, so it would be more relatable to them at the time.

[Carol]

Tim wrote: "I'm going to go more in depth when I finish the book, but my early thoughts mirror your own. I like a few of the stories but some have been fairly forgettable and one or two more than a touch borin..."

You make a great point, Tim. I love the period details, the window on the culture of the time, and the voice of each narrator. I was mistakenly taking those aspects for granted.

[Bill]

Since it's a collection of short stories, I might as well comment on each one individually.

A Drowsing Dream of Shinju
The three part structure of this story (background, viewpoint character's tale, afterward) works well for it and its genre, though sometimes the background is omitted and filled in during the tale.

Ghostly vengeance (living or dead) is a common theme in Japanese ghost stories. It appears at least as far back as Genji. The novel element here is where the viewpoint character experiences the ghost's greatest wish while napping.

I find the best part of this story to be the life experiences of our viewpoint character. The ghost story itself seems hackneyed and tacked-on in comparison. The worst part is the foolish usage of 'tea towel' in the translation. Yeah, let's pull an archaic English phrase out of an old book to translate a Japanese term instead of using the Japanese term itself with a footnote. That'll make it so clear for modern English readers! (/sarcasm).

I had to look this one up. It probably isn't oshibori (the towels you get at a Japanese restaurant to wash your hands before eating), but is more likely te'nugui (a small cotton towel for various uses). The cotton te'nugui has fallen out of use in modern Japan and been replaced with other fabrics.

[Carol]

I'm so glad you explained this, Bill. I couldn't figure out the logistics of a tea towel tying tight enough around a wrist to make sense as one's cord of choice, and it just didn't .... fit.

[Tim]

I like your idea on how to do this Bill, so I'll go ahead and post my thoughts on some of the stories individually. (As an aside, I apologize if there are any typos or grammatical errors, I typed this up on my cell phone during a lengthy work break.)

A Drowsing Dream of Shinju

I found this story slow going, but became so interested in the historic details that I honestly rather forgot it was a ghost story… until Ginji actually went into the house and then I’ll admit, it creeped the hell out of me. I consider myself a pretty seasoned horror veteran, but there was something about this one that got under my skin. (I should note now that I'm down to two stories in the collection and none of the others have even slightly unnerved me. There was just something about the description of the corpse and the laughter).

While I did enjoy the historic aspects, seeing a rather interesting slice of life from a worker at the time, I wish this hadn’t been the first story in the collection. As slow going as it was, I felt it didn’t set a proper tone to the book. I felt that way when I first read it and I still feel that way as none of the other stories seem quite as slow moving. Would have preferred it in the middle, but that may just be me.

Overall feelings on the story: a bit slow going, but has a good enough pay off to be memorable.

A brief aside, I didn't have any problem with the tea towel thing, but during my teenage years I watched a metric ton of samurai films, and the concept of Shinju shows up quite frequently, so I already had a visual in my mind for it.

Cage of Shadows

This was the opposite of the first story in that I found myself fascinated with it from the start and loved the structure of the narrator seemingly talking to you, but I didn’t find it in the least bit creepy.

This is the most like a European gothic of the stories in the collection, with noble characters imprisoned against their will, corrupt aristocratic characters (though yes, merchants in this case, but as noted above, all stories seem to be from a working class perspective) and from what we can gleam about the person our narrator is speaking to, a noble character out to gain the truth no matter what it might be. If only there was a castle and a translated manuscript, it could easily sit next to The Castle of Otranto and others of that style.

Looking at it as more of a gothic, and less of a traditional ghost story (there is a different flow to the two, thought they often overlap) this hits most of the cliches just with a changed setting. Personally I really enjoyed this spin on a well know tale and enjoyed it greatly. I also like the ambiguity... are we dealing with a ghost story, or an unreliable narrator? This question gives you a sense of the character we the audience are playing (that of the inspector the narrator is talking to). All around, I found this a... fun, structure for this story.

Overall feelings on the story: great take on the gothic, with just enough hard evidence to make you question if its a ghost story at all.

The Futon Storeroom

I don't mean this to sound like an insult, but did anyone else feel that this story suddenly shifted into a young adult style tale? I mean we had a plucky young character saved by the love of a sibling, and overcome monster that didn't exactly become a friend or anything, but went into speaking terms with her, and explained its actions. It felt much more like a fairy tale to me and I am genuinely interested if anyone else felt the same way on this one.

The story itself was rather nice. An interesting tonal change of pace given the grim nature of the last two stories, as it had more of a heartwarming feel to it. All that said, I feel something got lost in translation. The nature of the evil spirit, and how the person still seemed in control seemed a bit odd to me and unexplained. It worked, but it left me with questions (such as why the girl needed to plant the branches from the sakaki tree in the room at night? What stopped the older woman from doing it herself? Did I just miss something?)

Overall feelings on the story: personally found this one a bit unsatisfying. I liked the fairy tale feel though I felt it was a strong tonal shift from what came in the book before it... *Shrug* I guess just couldn't get past the childish feel of this one.

The Plum Rains Fall

One thing about the structure of the book that I feel I need to praise here is the introduction of the "49 days" in the previous story and that it comes into play again here. I like that we had it introduced previously and that it came back again directly into the next story. Though these are two very different stories, structurally they sit together perfectly.

Unfortunately, at least for me, I found this story painful to get through. I put it down three times as it just didn't hold my interest. I liked the period details, but I could praise that aspect of every story thus far (and after as well). That is about the only thing I can praise here, as it didn't come off as suspenseful, it was painfully predictable and overall it just felt like the sort of campfire story someone came up with spur of the moment and not an actual planned story to me.

Overall feelings on the story: The weakest story in the collection I've read thus far and pretty unmemorable.

While I've read more stories than this, I will continue my thoughts later. Until then, I'd love to see if others had similar thoughts on these (or if you completely disagree!).

[Carol]

I finished The "Oni" of the Adachi House and it is my favorite of those I've read. What I find both striking and troubling is the lack of control the female characters have over their lives, their destinies. Not only, but especially, in this story they are limited to making the best of limited options defined and determined by their fathers, employers, city leaders, spouses. There is no thought of meaningful escape. They accept the horrific as if it is normal. I was glad to get to the portion of the MIL's story where she expresses her anger at the local leaders for their development of, and use of, the Adachi House as a "solution" to the challenge they had faced; however, the author implies that the oni might be controlling and, hence, speaking through the MIL at the point, so we aren't necessarily hearing her express anger or disgust at men's actions on her own behalf.

Miyabe was exceedingly successful with:

The utter sadness and acceptance of the main character of her circumstances and duty.

The manner in which she handles the passing of time, and flashbacks.

The glimpses we get of the Oni, including initially as the relationship develops between the MIL and the Oni.

The disdain the MC has for the too-familiar O-Tama.

The author's discipline in not telling us more about Tomitaro and the MC's marriage and relationship.

Plum Rains is the least interesting of the stories I've read in this collection. It isn't bad. It simply isn't special.

[Carol]

@Tim, I thought Futon Showroom was stronger --in terms of both the writing style and story-telling quality -- than you did; however the gaps in the story in the form of the questions you identified are spot-on and bothered me as well. I am not a fantasy or horror fan, generally, and unexplained gaps or inconsistencies in the world as the author develops and describes it annoy me. Still, I was so rooting for the girl to get the hell out if there alive. I believed, lol.

[Tim]

The “Oni” of Adachi House

I really enjoyed this one. The concept of the Oni is unique and I like the idea that a seemingly unpleasant spirit would instead make a family thrive. In many ways the Oni seems closer to a Zashiki-warashi (a type of spirit that loves to play pranks, but can also bring good luck to a household). Of the stories with no horror elements, I think this is the standout.

This one brings an interesting change to our working class narrator, as we get the perspective of a woman married to the master of the house… yet she still started off as a maid, so even when we go to an upper-class narrator, we still get the workman-like background.

Other than those points I wanted to make, Carol sums this one up perfectly above. She words her points far better than I could. :)

Final thoughts: This is another one that has an almost fairy tale like quality to it (a creature that brings a family to good fortune and a young maid who manages to move up in her position). It also plays an interesting contrast between the narrator and the maid who previously watched the old mistress (we’re to feel fine about the narrator moving up in her station because she is pure hearted, whereas the previous maid, detecting the oni as a terrible smell is shown to disregard rules of station).

A Woman’s Head

Okay, I apologize, but I just found this story funny. I was rather shocked to see when I glanced at the reviews that someone said this story was the scariest. The thought of the paper face, with sharp teeth, trying to just chew on the boy’s head is a visual that comes off less terrifying and more like a cartoonish horror moment.

This may be the most unique case in the book as, while our narrator wants to work, this is the only story where the main character is not exactly working class. Given his situation, the apprentice isn’t even an accurate way to describe him, and feels almost tacked on to keep this connection going.

Final thoughts: Much like “The Futon Storeroom” this one felt more like a young adult story, including a laughable monster and quite possibly the most ridiculous way of beating it I’ve read.

The Oni in the Autumn Rain

And after one of the most ridiculous stories comes easily my favorite in the whole collection. This is a wonderful ambiguous story. Is there really an “oni” or just violent people. Is any of the story O-Tsuta told true? Was she really trying to help our narrator, or just learn more about her? No question is answered in this story, and that enhances it rather than cheapens it.

All around I found this the most suspenseful story in the collection, as the conversation between the protagonist an O-Tsuta continues, and more subtitle oddities come up, I became increasingly unnerved. By the end of their talk, I kept waiting for something terrible to happen… but the genius of this story is that the horrible things all happen off screen and in the case of our narrator, will only happen based on her own choices.

Final thoughts: A wonderful ambiguous horror story that may or may not be supernatural at all.

Ash Kagura

This one felt like Miyabe started a horror novel and decided to give up after the opening chapter. There’s a set-up for a story that never fully happens, with backstories for characters hinted at, but never fully revealed and a ghostly presence that seemingly has no motivation but makes vague comments. Even the last line makes it sound as if the events are only about to begin. Overall it feels so unfinished that I don’t know quite what to make of it.

Final thoughts: a nice start… I just wish there was a full story.

The Mussel Mound

This has a great set-up and is quite intriguing from the get-go. The actual aspect of the mussels seems bizarre as the story seems trying to explain a mussel shrine, but the actual supernatural part has nothing to do with mussels. It feels like the author was going for one thing, changed the story, but decided to leave the mussel bit tacked on, which makes the entire thing feel a bit awkward. If it would have just focused on these ageless worker, it would be a much more coherent story. There would still be room for unanswered questions (which in a story like this works well) but the added explanation of the mussels just feels so odd. I understand trying to keep the period setting, but it feels so unnecessary. This is also another of the weaker stories, and feels a poor one to close the book with.

Final thoughts: A better story than what is told is hidden in this one.

So, now that the book is finished, you can see I have mixed thoughts. Some of the stories were pretty great (such as The Oni in the Autumn Rain) but others are just dreadful. The stories range in quality so much that it would be hard for me to suggest it to anyone as a whole collection, The most interesting aspects as a whole are the period details, but in some cases I feel they take away from the stories as a whole (particularly The Mussel Mound, which looses tension and focus due to giving those period details)

[Tim]

Carol wrote: "@Tim,... I am not a fantasy or horror fan, generally, and unexplained gaps or inconsistencies in the world as the author develops and describes it annoy me. ."

I am a fantasy and horror fan, but those inconsistencies annoy me as well. :D

Here it just feels so unnecessary. Literally one sentence could have been tacked on in dialogue explaining this and I would have been completely fine with it. Dialogue in many of these stories is so sparse and to the point that it wouldn't have bothered me that it was just an obvious explanation... at least I would then HAVE an explanation. Ambiguity is fine, this just feels unfinished.

[Carol]

Tim wrote: "Carol wrote: "@Tim,... I am not a fantasy or horror fan, generally, and unexplained gaps or inconsistencies in the world as the author develops and describes it annoy me. ."

I am a fantasy and hor..."

Exactly.

[Carol]

Another question of culture and history, if anyone knows:

I'm beginning A Woman's Head and it has finally occurred to me that every single story involves someone being apprenticed and leaving home between 10-14. Is this really how things were historically or is it simply a plot device as with all fairy tales (and Disney movies) that the MC must be abandoned or somehow without a parent or other adult protector in order to create the circumstances where the vulnerability to the otherworldly threat is real or possible?

[Carol]

A Woman's Head

I rarely question the quality of a translation. But. From the first page of this short story, there were sentences that didn't make sense to me, and, hence, I couldn't suspend disbelief sufficiently by give the story a chance.

Here was the first section that caught my attention.

His mother raised him in desperation while doing many odd jobs. Begrudging even the time it took to sleep, she kept working, hardly eating what food they had. She felt that this was bliss.

However, her long years of pushing herself took their toll. . . .

That third sentence. Bliss?

I was entranced with Taro's intentional choice not to speak, and appreciated the explanation, but nothing in this story was plausible from the description of the landlord, to them taking Taro in, to the possibility of him being an heir, to the laughably nutty ending. And it was long, lol.

[Tim]

The ending cracked me up. I know it wasn't intentional, but I found the story way more comedic than it was suppose to be.

[Carol]

Tim wrote: "The ending cracked me up. I know it wasn't intentional, but I found the story way more comedic than it was suppose to be."

A bunch of people (view spoiler)[jumping on a ghost, capturing a non-tangible entity in a BLANKET, beating it up, pulling the blanket off to reveal a dozen dust balls and having the ghost be fooled by a squash under the covers??? The American idea of monsters constrained to remain under one's bed even makes more sense then this ending which breaks all rules ever of the spiritual and physical worlds encountering one another. (hide spoiler)]

Maybe Miyabe used a ghost writer for this one.

I'm here all week, folks. Two drink minimum.

[Carol]

The Oni in the Autumn Rain

This story lacked momentum, e.g., there was dramatic tension or arc. It is divided into two parts --the initial conversation between O-Nobu and O-Tsuta, and everything that occurs after the "thief-takers" come to interview O-Nobu. I enjoyed the initial conversation between the two women, the contrast in life experience, the initial description of the Oni, the debate about whether O-Nobu should trust or distrust the pressure of Shigetaro. The smells and visual descriptions of the countryside, the weather, the borrowed umbrella were striking and I stopped to reread several of them multiple times. At the end, we are unsure of the choice O-Nobu makes. An elegant ending.

This wasn't a ghost story, though. It was a story of innocence and those who would take advantage of it. That, and the descriptions of Oni moving through the world as shape-shifters was pleasant, if not memorable.

[Tim]

Carol wrote: "This wasn't a ghost story, though. It was a story of innocence and those who would take advantage of it. That, and the descriptions of Oni moving through the world as shape-shifters was pleasant, of not memorable. "
This was easily my favorite story in the collection and I think you hit why perfectly. This isn't a ghost story, yet it is still very much an an ambiguous horror story. The horror doesn't come from the violence or the "monster" but in the tension of the dialogue and all it implies. Thinking back on it, the only initial sign of violence is the metallic smell, which at one point I recall seems to be coming from O-Tsuta's breath... even her words have a hint of violence.

[Carol]

Tim wrote: "Carol wrote: "This wasn't a ghost story, though. It was a story of innocence and those who would take advantage of it. That, and the descriptions of Oni moving through the world as shape-shifters w..."

I was wondering, Tim. Should the description of the smell as metallic have meant something to me? It didn't resonate but I felt while reading as though it should have.

[Tim]

When blood touches skin it releases a metallic odor that smells like iron. It's not the smell of blood (though often mistaken for it) but actually the odor skin produces when blood touches it. So I took it to imply that she actually smells of blood.

[Carol]

Thank you! That makes sense.

[Ian]

Hey. New to the group.

I've finished up 3 of the stories so far, and I would agree with much that has been said so far, that, although at times eerie, and pleasant enough, it isn't leaving a lasting impression so far.

Hope to comment if I feel I have anything to add to the discussion

[Tim]

Welcome to the group Josh! Feel free to comment at any time. Discussion of the text (whether we agree or disagree) is always welcome!

[Carol]

Now that I've finished, I'm curious about something. One of the aspects I enjoyed most about these stories was the culture. Because I'm American and curious, there's a great deal to learn. Miyabe is writing primarily for a Japanese audience, for whom I would think (perhaps incorrectly) that those details are familiar and not a draw. These aren't violent, threatening or horrific, and they also mix in enough Western references that they aren't pure folklore. I wonder how this collection fared in Japan, in terms of sales/reviews, etc.

[Ian]

Carol wrote: "Now that I've finished, I'm curious about something. One of the aspects I enjoyed most about these stories was the culture. Because I'm American and curious, there's a great deal to learn. Miyabe i..."

I'm not sure about the reception here, but I would say that, though possibly better known to locals, the details here would likely work in a pre-birth nostalgic sort of way. I mean, as a glimps at a world they never knew or one that they may have caught the tail end of. This is not today's Japan, is what I mean.

I hope someone else has the resources to search out sales and reviews. (Maybe we can put her best reviewed book on a list for future months?)

[Bill]

When I started this book, I thought I would make one post per story. But I'm finding the stories lackluster enough that I just don't see much worth commenting on.

I'm not a horror reader in general, but I've read other Japanese horror stories that are more entertaining than these. Japanese Tales by Royall Tyler is the best I can remember offhand. I don't know what source material he used for that. There were a number of collections of popular horror stories from the Heian to Muromachi periods he might have started from.

The only thing I find distinctive about Apparitions is Miyabe's use of low-class city people as main characters. It's not that common in Japanese literature. Most Edo period stuff is about samurai or well-to-do merchants.

[Carol]

Josh wrote: "Carol wrote: "Now that I've finished, I'm curious about something. One of the aspects I enjoyed most about these stories was the culture. Because I'm American and curious, there's a great deal to l..."

That makes sense, Josh. I would like to read her most successful work with this group. I don't believe she typically writes historical fiction, per se,

[Ian]

Bill wrote: "When I started this book, I thought I would make one post per story. But I'm finding the stories lackluster enough that I just don't see much worth commenting on.

I'm not a horror reader in genera..."



This is a Japanese style short story work that came out about a year ago, and I found to have better variety.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...

[Bill]

I've finished the collection now and am still unimpressed. As ghost stories they're neither particularly scary nor novel. Yet viewed as stories about their human characters rather than about their ghosts, most of them fail to resolve their human characters' stories. The ghostly element is resolved, but the human elements are left hanging.

My favorite of the bunch is The Oni of Adachi House, because it does provide closure for the main character and her family. It also has an intricate structure told in nested flashbacks, at one point three flashbacks deep, without losing focus or confusing the reader.

[Ian]

It seems we are all underwhelmed...

I've started October's choice a bit early, (mostly because I'll need extra time to tackle November's monster) and 1/2 way in, our Halloween choice is (for me) a much better use of slow Japanese horror style.

[Suki]

I enjoyed the stories quite a bit. The horror aspect is very gentle; I enjoyed the stories more as historic vignettes. It was really interesting to get a glimpse into working class lives in old Edo, with a light sprinkling of creepiness. I really like Miyuki Miyabe's crime novels-- this book was a definite change of gear in respect to what I have come to expect from her. I also have another book that she has written called Brave Story which is a YA fantasy. I haven't read it yet, but I certainly am curious.

[Carol]

Suki wrote: "I enjoyed the stories quite a bit. The horror aspect is very gentle; I enjoyed the stories more as historic vignettes. It was really interesting to get a glimpse into working class lives in old Edo..."

I haven't seen Brave Story; will look for it.