Let's discuss Game of Thrones (Show)

[Anat]

the plot in the show is so simple compared to the books. Praying Georgie boy will finish them someday.

(view spoiler)[it was quite disappointing to see 4 or 5 characters have their years worth development trashed. I don't read fan theories, but I had my own ideas based on what the show presented so far.

I only like the scenes with the hound and the moment between Tyrion and Jamie.

Good action and stunning cinematography tho. (hide spoiler)]

[Jerry-Book]

My thoughts on episode 5. (view spoiler)[ Best part was Ayra riding the white horse out of the Destroyed City.

"And I looked, and behold, a pale horse!
And it's rider's name was Death, . . . ."

Second best was Tyrion's goodbye to Varys.

Third was Tyrion's goodbye scene with Jamie.

Fourth, Jon's realization that Dany had gone over the Deep End. This raises the question will Jon be loyal until the end like Ned.
(hide spoiler)]

[CBRetriever]

I think (view spoiler)[Jon isn't like Ned otherwise he wouldn't have become involved with Ygritte (against his vows), killed the Half Hand (ditto) or made a deal with the Wildlings. He's honorable, but he bends. (hide spoiler)]

[M.L.]

Logical ending seems to be -
(view spoiler)[ The dragon flames Winterfell. Those who must die are:
Bran - knows too much
Sam - knows too much
Sansa - traitor
Arya - too dangerous to leave alive
Brienne - too loyal, dies protecting them

After Winterfell -
Jon - competitor must die
Tyrion - traitor must die

Dany takes the Iron Throne. A new reign of terror ushered in, and the cycle repeats itself.

A 'happy' ending just would not fit. (hide spoiler)]

[Sera]

(view spoiler)[That may actually be what happens M.L.
They did say that the ending wouldn't be satisfying or happy. Your theory would certainly fit with that. (hide spoiler)]

[Rosie]

I was having some doubts after a few story and character turns in the previous episode and this brought all of my worst concerns to the fore. 6-7 seasons worth of plot and character development , for everyone, feel like they've been thrown in the bin for an excuse to go have a big spectacle.

Just narratively, for me, there was no understandable or logical progression of one action to another, with massive inconsistency in the basic reality.

(view spoiler)[From last episode to this, Euron has gone from expert shot and dragon killer, to incompetent. The scorpians went from major threat to solved in less than a minute. From being a key player over the series, Cersei has been reduced to staring out a window and barely having a full sentence of dialogue the entire 8th season. This episode was meant to be Dany winning the war and the character we saw the least off was Dany, also barely with more than a few sentences. Yes, Dany can absolutely be violent, ruthless and bloody, but I don't see much motivation or reason in the moment to go from actively making sure innocents weren't killed "I'm not here to be Queen of the ashes" to forgetting her entire life's purpose. (hide spoiler)]

Just generally, aside from most of the first 3 episodes, I feel completely let down by how this season is wrapping up. I'm not actually looking forward to the finale anymore as I see more character assassination being inevitable.

[Anna]

Yeah it would make all the sense for this to be (view spoiler)[ the origin story of the next Mad Queen. It's not something I want to see, but I wouldn't be upset. I can't think of a scenario that would make me upset re: the Iron Throne, since I don't care who sits on it. I would be happy if it was no one, but I won't throw my TV out of the window if Dany kills everyone and rules over the ashes. I'm just happy it's going to be over soon and we can all move on. (hide spoiler)]

[Gabi]

It's interesting to read through the comments here. Thanks for providing them. I left the TV version somewhere in the second season, yet since the TV overtook the books I read the spoilers to satiate my curiosity. Does anybody know if the ending in the TV is the one that GRRM intends for the books as well?

[Jacqueline]

I heard that GRRM told the TV mob who he wants on the Iron Throne at the end of the saga but who knows if they're going to go with his choice. They've only got one left to do it.

I haven't watched it since halfway through season 2 as well. I've seen random episodes between then and now and I haven't been too worried about spoilers in the meantime.

[Travis]

Gabi wrote: "Does anybody know if the ending in the TV is the one that GRRM intends for the books as well? "

I really hope not. And I hope that the challenge to improve upon the series motivates him to finish already!

[Rosie]

Travis wrote: "Gabi wrote: "Does anybody know if the ending in the TV is the one that GRRM intends for the books as well? "

I really hope not. And I hope that the challenge to improve upon the series motivates him to finish already! "

Please!!

[Travis]

So a little bit of poking around has me maybe rethinking Daenerys's decisions in the last episode:

(view spoiler)[...
This piece from LARB was particularly persuasive (https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/g...)

Benioff and Weiss have an explanation, and it’s that she suddenly breaks on the battlefield. “I don’t think she decided ahead of time that she was going to do what she did,” one of them says; “she makes the decision to make this personal” when she’s sitting on the dragon, on the wall, and “sees the Red Keep.” She goes mad, in other words, and murders millions of innocents on a sudden explosion of fury; like her father, the Mad King—whose leftover wildfire she ignites—she burns King’s Landing.


I’m going to proceed as if all the things that Benioff and Weiss say in the post-episode featurette are stupid and wrong, however. For one thing, she doesn’t make it personal.

...

I think Daenerys is not only rational, but absolutely right. We know how rational she is because she’s clearly spent those long days in seclusion analyzing her enemies’ new technology and developing a three-dimensional tactic to counter it: attack the ships in their sun-blind spot, from above, then fly straight up to thwart the crossbows on the harbor wall, and then attack the giant crossbows on the gate wall from behind. That’s a smart plan!

The whole piece is worth reading. Maybe the best ending would be for Dany to just burn it all down. ;)

(hide spoiler)]

[Alondra]

GRRM is no where near finishing anything. He's finishing up with this show, just to work on the next. I mean, the man isn't even thinking of his readers. The very folk who got him to this point.

I have no expectations of seeing either of the books before 2022.... humpf.

[Melani]

Travis wrote: "Gabi wrote: "Does anybody know if the ending in the TV is the one that GRRM intends for the books as well? "

I really hope not. And I hope that the challenge to improve upon the series motivates h..."

It depends on what you mean by 'the same' and where you get your information. From what I can gather from various sources, the main plot beats are going to be the same, but some of the minor characters will get different stories and motivations might be different or more fleshed out. What you take that to mean, or how you interpret it so far as various events on the show.... who knows.

(I maintain, and I have for a while, that Martin has no clue how to finish his story. He's had the ending in mind for a while, but no real clear idea how to get his characters to do what he wants them to do.)

[Jennifer]

Melani, I agree with your thought that Martin doesn't know how to get to the end. For me books 4 and 5 were just a mess of 5000 new characters and info dumps. I mean were are left in the books with (view spoiler)[Jon dead, no glimpses of white walkers, Tyrion off with the circus, the other Aegon (WTF?), Dany hanging out in Mereen...(view spoiler)[, we aren't even close to be doing with the book story.

I think some of the greatest scenes came from the TV show....that fight with Brienne and The Hound, (i just woke up and can't think of more)

I mean, think of all the characters we have had from season one, their story. their ending, for me it was inevitable that Dany would follow ... (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[CBRetriever]

Don't click on link if you don't want spoilers, but here's a good article on martin and the TV show:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultass...

also: (view spoiler)[as Dany in the books always struck me as a spoiled teenager with raging hormones who makes lots of questionable decisions, i have no problem believing that she would go "postal" on King's Landing, especially if she's feeling rejected and alone.

This behavior has been evidenced many times in the TV show: killing the Tarleys, insisting that Jon bend the knee to her, etc. She's been getting more and more autocratic and now Jon comes along and has a better claim to her life-long goal and getting all the attention, she's reacting exactly as I expected her to do. (hide spoiler)]

[M.L.]

I got the episode I've been waiting for. :) Whatever happens next, happens. (view spoiler)[Will the sleeping Targaryen awaken? If he doesn't, then he's comatose. But whoever is left will not forget what a girl and one bad-ass dragon can do. :P (hide spoiler)]

[Jennifer]

CBRetriever wrote: "Don't click on link if you don't want spoilers, but here's a good article on martin and the TV show:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultass......"

CBRetriever wrote: "Don't click on link if you don't want spoilers, but here's a good article on martin and the TV show:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultass......"

Yes. yes. and Yes.

[Anna]

Are all the spoilers from msg 183 onwards about something we haven't seen in the show (yet)? Meaning can I open any of them if I don't want to *know* something about the finale? Speculation is fine.

[Bobby]

Anna wrote: "Are all the spoilers from msg 183 onwards about something we haven't seen in the show (yet)? Meaning can I open any of them if I don't want to *know* something about the finale? Speculation is fine."

As far as I can tell the spoilers in tags are all only up to the most recent episode and no content about what happens in the final episode. The article just talks about the fact that Martin told the creators how it ends, but doesn't go into what that ending actually is.

[Anna]

OK great, thanks Bobby!

[Rosie]

I watched the clips of them talking about Dany's motivation,

(view spoiler)[the problem I have with it is trying to say she's following the path of her father doesn't match up with anything that's happened on screen. His descent into madness took years, not a sudden switch. He enjoyed burning people alive, Dany hasn't given any indication of enjoying it, seeing it as a necessary, maybe even just punishment to those who have wronged or betrayed her or are direct enemies, like the armies.

It's never been used civilians before. Why she would break now, for no apparent reason has not been lead up to in the show. The talk of "her state of mind" came across as a classic "woman being hysterical" attitude after she was upset at the deaths of Jorah, Rhaegal and Missandei. If genuine plot had been laid down to lead to this, fine, but I don't see it. (hide spoiler)]

[Travis]

Rosie wrote: "I watched the clips of them talking about Dany's motivation,
"

Agree 100%.

[Becky]

I saw a different article featuring that David Silvermint twitter thread this morning with the same concept, and it definitely makes sense.

Here's the direct link to the twitter thread: https://twitter.com/dsilvermint/statu...

[Travis]

Corinne wrote: "Interesting Tor.com article (spoilers)."

That's a great piece. Thanks for sharing. And LOL at the point made re. Ghost. So true!

[CBRetriever]

Here are several good (view spoiler)[articles on why we shouldn't have been surprised and 40 different instances of foreshadowing:

https://www.inverse.com/article/55831...

going all the way back to season 1.

and yet another:

https://www.vox.com/2019/5/10/1856356...

I wasn't surprised and totally expected it to happen.
(hide spoiler)]

[Sera]

Corinne wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[I wasn't suprised either. I think they've been leading up to it quite obviously this season. They've been slowly showing how Dany doesn't feel loved, how she sees the throne as her ultimate goal and everything that stands in her way needs to disappear/die. She's been making threats and only wanted to give Cersei an out in episode 4 to make herself appear good. We've already seen several occasions where she was more than ready to attack a city full of innocents (which her advisors stopped her from doing) or do things that were questionable over the entire series. She kills without remorse and not always only guilty people either.
She's in a place where nobody loves her, yet they all love Jon. They showed the jealousy and how she's been slowly (though pretty rushed obviously) unraveling. Then she looses her two best friends and her 'child' dragon on top of that. She even kind of lost Jon, who she also thinks betrayed her. She talks about how she only has 'fear'. She's also been pretty unlikable for a while now.
I was expecting her to snap this episode, especially after Missandei's murder and her reaction to that. (hide spoiler)]

[Travis]

Corinne wrote: "."

(view spoiler)[This is why I found the LARB piece I posted above persuasive. I just don't see it in her character that she suddenly "snapped." But I can understand if she made a terribly rational decision to be the dragon and to choose -- horribly and inexorably -- fear over love. (hide spoiler)]

[CBRetriever]

Corinne wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

yes, (view spoiler)[historically it was quite common:

Hiroshima
Allied bombing of Dresden
Boudica burning down London

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertain...

https://www.polygon.com/game-of-thron...

Now everyone will be afraid of her

(hide spoiler)]

[CBRetriever]

for your amusement (I chuckled)

(view spoiler)[

https://slate.com/culture/2019/05/gam...

(hide spoiler)]

[Becky]

That is fantastic. :D

[Anna]

That was hilarious! XD

[M.L.]

I think there will be some screams tomorrow night. :)

[Bobby]

M.L. wrote: "I think there will be some screams tomorrow night. :)"
I'm going to watch with some friends. I almost think seeing the reactions will be as fun as the actual episode.

[Jennifer]

I almost feel like starting the whole series over....there was some good stuff over the years.

[Jennifer]

Corinne wrote: "Did seeing Dany's brother make you nostalgic?"

Maybe just a little. 😉

[CBRetriever]

Jennifer wrote: "I almost feel like starting the whole series over....there was some good stuff over the years."

HBO played one season per day for a week before the premiere of the current season. However I have have all six season on DVD or BlueRay.

It was good revisiting all the past seasons, though

[Jerry-Book]

Why Dany?(view spoiler)[ I did object to the writers making Dany a bigger bad guy than either Cersi or the Night King. After all who led her forces north to save Winterfel, Jon, Sansa, the Starks, etc. from the Night King. Who lost half her army in this rescue attempt. Who did this despite Cersi pulling the double cross and refusing to join the fight. Who was an exile and had to overcome incredible obstacles to become a queen. Who was betrayed by Varys and others. Who rescued Jon and company from the Night King losing one of her dragons in the process. Who freed the unsullied from slavery. Who did Jon bend his knee to and who did Jon pledge loyalty to. Who did Sansa betray by spreading the story about Jon’s birth. Who did Tyrion betray by spreading the story to Varys about Jon’s birth. Who did Tyrion betray freeing Jamie after he had been captured by Dany’s Army. Ayra was also guilty of at least one atrocity - slaying the entire House of Frey.

In summary, up until the massacre at King’s Landing Dany’s good deeds far out-weighed her bad deeds. I fail to see any good deeds by the Night King or Cersei. So, how is it that Dany ends up being the Number One Bad Guy in the final? (hide spoiler)]

[Jerry-Book]

See my comments above

[[deleted user]]

Jerry-Book wrote: "Why Dany? (view spoiler)[I did object to the writers making Dany a bigger bad guy than either Cersi or the Night King. After all who led her forces north to save Winterfel, Jon, Sansa, the Starks, etc. from the N..." (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[Because she massacred close to a million innocents, men, women and children. That's not enough to be branded a bad person? (hide spoiler)]

[Anna]

Michel, could you please edit out or hide the spoilery bits from the quote, thanks!

[CBRetriever]

Jerry-Book wrote: " (view spoiler)[Why Dany? I did object to the writers making Dany a bigger bad guy than either Cersi or the Night King. After all who led her forces north to save Winterfel, Jon, Sansa, the Starks, etc. from the N... (hide spoiler)]"

I actually think she (view spoiler)[ would not make a good ruler. She's too autocratic, just like Cersei and Tywin (he at least showed some regard for reality), as shown by her bow or die behavior. If Jon hadn't bowed to her, she might very well have executed him like she did the Tarleys. (hide spoiler)]

Here are several good (view spoiler)[articles on why we shouldn't have been surprised and 40 different instances of foreshadowing:

https://www.inverse.com/article/55831...

going all the way back to season 1.

and yet another:

https://www.vox.com/2019/5/10/1856356...

I wasn't surprised and totally expected it to happen.
(hide spoiler)]

[Rachel]

Not a spoiler: What is the appropriate punishment for a spouse that promised to come home after sports to watch the last ever GoT with their wife and come 9 pm wife texts to say wtf and spouse has gone out drinking instead....without telling ....

Maybe fire....

[Alondra]

Rachel wrote: "Not a spoiler: What is the appropriate punishment for a spouse that promised to come home after sports to watch the last ever GoT with their wife and come 9 pm wife texts to say wtf and spouse has ..."

He went drinking because he knew this episode was...…. @#!@%E^#

[Alondra]

This is how it ends??!?

*rolls eyes*

[Jennifer]

I liked it. It was like the ending of a great fantasy novel. Bittersweet, unexpected , yet satisfying, leaving you wanting for just one more chapter....

[Rachel]

I definitely watched without him. Drogon is the winner of this episode.

[[deleted user]]

Rachel wrote: "Not a spoiler: What is the appropriate punishment for a spouse that promised to come home after sports to watch the last ever GoT with their wife and come 9 pm wife texts to say wtf and spouse has ..."

Feed him to Drogon!

[Jerry-Book]

Episode 6 (view spoiler)[ Bran knows the future so did he know he was going to be king all along? Jon kisses Dany as he stabs her. Jon can’t even have a wife. He least gets his Dire Wolf back. Of course, as soon as he gets to the Nightwatch, he bails and heads out with the Wildings. Ayra heading out on the ship reminds me of the end of LOTR when Frodo takes off on the fairy boat. Bran the King? He himself says he lives in the past. Also, how does the prisoner, Tyrion, get to pick the King? (hide spoiler)].

[Jacqueline]

I haven’t really watched since the middle of season 2 but have caught a few episodes here and there. I do keep up with what’s happening though. My kids are GoT nuts.

I watched today’s episode and loved it. I found the ending very satisfying.

And as to husbands that go out drinking instead of coming home. 🐉 🔥