Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club discussion
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Without Excuse!
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Rod wrote: "God doesn't select people to go to hell - we all deserve hell. He simply saves some for his good pleasure-..."My response: I agree... we all deserve hell.
But your god FORCIBLY PREVENTS PEOPLE from choosing him...
My God LEGITIMATELY OFFERS SALVATION TO ALL!
Titus 2:11 - "For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people ."
All people?Or all Kinds of people?
What is the application of Titus? Don't do lazy scholarship Robert - look thoroughly. I dare you.
Honestly- quoting scripture to you is often pointless. You're so hung up on single words that you miss the meaning of the entire text.
Once again, I have selected scriptures for you to read (how's Jeremiah 1 coming?)I'm not here to simply quote scripture: yes, even Satan can do that. I'm here to ponder and understand it as a whole. Never make doctrine out of single verses. Always have a context.
Rod wrote: "All people? Or all Kinds of people?..."My response: I don't have to ADD my OPINIONS like you do.
Titus 2:11 - "For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people ."
Romans 10:13 - "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Rod wrote: Honestly- quoting scripture to you is often pointless. You're so hung up on single words that you miss the meaning of the entire text..."My response: Quoting Scripture is ONLY pointless to those who REFUSE to believe it.
Rod wrote: "Once again, I have selected scriptures for you to read (how's Jeremiah 1 coming?)..."My response: Jeremiah chapter 1 is awesome. I PROVES God's election based on His FOREKNOWLEDGE... just as He says and demonstrates throughout the Bible.
Rod wrote: "I'm not here to simply quote scripture: yes, even Satan can do that..."My response: I don't quote Scripture after the pattern of satan. I quote the Bible after the pattern of JESUS!
I guess I am in good company!
The real problem here is EISEGESIS . You attempt to force the Bible to say what you WANT it to say, rather than accepting what it ACTUALLY does say.
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Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written , Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again , Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written , Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Why do you not think you are forcing the Bible to justify your desires? Throwing verses out without proper context and application seems to be your hobby.Slow down Robert. Read carefully. Ask questions- read entire chapters.
You seem to always have your mind made up before you start.
Indeed, Satan quoted scripture as you do - with proper context and theology. All cults do this. I know that your pride gets in the way. Your a hothead buddy. An insulting one at that. Are you not aware of this??? And yet you insist I trust your thrusting of scriptural interpretations?
We should be exploring and teaching - not attacking and demanding.
Actually you quote scripture very similar to the Mormons and J.W.'s that come to my house. They quote endless verses and fail to see their application throughout the Bible. When I attempt to explain them, all they do is shout louder and repeat the same verses. It's kind of funny.
Robert do you not see how you are doing this? How the hell do you ever minister to atheists, cults, or prisoners? You can't even chat reasonably or philosophically with a Christian brother. We both love God's Word. Slow down - learn from those around you.
Rod wrote: "Why do you not think you are forcing the Bible to justify your desires? Throwing verses out without proper context and application seems to be your hobby..."My response: I would rather QUOTE and BELIEVE the Word of God instead of the Opinions of Rod !
Rod wrote: "You seem to always have your mind made up before you start..."My response: NOPE! That would be you. That is why you summarily REJECT the Word of God in favor of your pre-concluded opinions.
Rod wrote: "Indeed, Satan quoted scripture as you do - with proper context and theology. All cults do this..."My response: NOPE! I quote the Bible IN CONTEXT.
You DON'T QUOTE the Bible... because the Bible DOES NOT SAY what you WANT it to say... so you just make it up and place the authority on your own opinions.
Rod wrote: "Actually you quote scripture very similar to the Mormons and J.W.'s that come to my house..."My response: Ad hominem attacks are a sure sign of a person standing on INDEFENSIBLE positions with NO SUBSTANCE to offer.
Thus far you have compared me to satan, Mormons, jws, etc.
As for me... I will stand on the...
WORD OF GOD!
Never will I stand on the opinions of Rod .
Rod wrote: "You can't even chat reasonably or philosophically with a Christian brother. We both love God's Word..."If you love God's Word... QUOTE IT!
I can discuss anything with any Christian over an OPEN BIBLE!
There is NOTHING to discuss when all someone offers is their eisegetical opinions.
Impress me with your Christian love and patience Robert. Show what a great teacher and thinker you are. You can do it.
I don't have an open Bible Robert. 99% of the time I'm texting you at work on my phone. I'm a truck driver that works 14 hour days. That's why I request that you post verses for both of us.
Post Jeremiah 1.
And Amos 3.
Interesting stuff.
Rod wrote: "Impress me with your Christian love and patience Robert. Show what a great teacher and thinker you are. You can do it."My response: My "love" and "patience" has NOTHING to do with YOU REJECTING the Word of God.
Rod wrote: "I don't have an open Bible Robert. 99% of the time I'm texting you at work on my phone. I'm a truck driver that works 14 hour days..."You should NOT be texting and driving at the same time. In NY state that is illegal.
John 6:64-6564 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe , and who it was who would betray him.)
65 And he said, “ This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
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Romans 8:29 - "For whom he did foreknow , he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
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1 Peter 1:2 - "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father..."
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John 6:70 - "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve , and one of you is a devil?"
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John 13:11 - "For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean."
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Psalm 139:2-4
2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.
3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways .
4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether .
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Heb 4:13 - "Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do ."
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1 John 3:20 - "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things ."
I don't actually drive and post. Too wordy!
All of those verses prove my point: God controls history. He steers it to His will- like with Jeremiah.
Rod wrote: "All of those verses prove my point: God controls history. He steers it to His will- like with Jeremiah."NONE of those verses "prove your point".
They PROVE that God KNOWS EVERYTHING!
Quote ONE verse that says God does NOT know everything!
1 John 3:20 - "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things ."
Rod wrote: "Of course Jesus knows His and the fathers plan. He knows who will betray him. God knows who are not His children. (Technically everyone - unless God decides otherwise and gives out faith and a new ..."Rod:
If God were to "give out faith," that would contradict his gift to us of free will. Everyone has been given the ability to freely choose to have faith or to choose not to have it.
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
What verse is it that says every single person is given the gift to freely choose? Choose what? Good or evil, salvation or rebellion, sin or not sin?
Hint: choosing good over bad is not the same as choosing salvation.
God gives us a measure of Faith... we don't choose or create faith.
Belief is a whole nuther issue. Demons believe.
My response: DIG DEEPER???
This coming from a guy who has NOT QUOTED any Scripture yet???
SERIOUSLY ???
All you have done is attempt to DISCREDIT the CLEAR Word of God.