Outlander Series discussion
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Least Favorite Character?
I think Claire's advice is good: Keep your back straight and don't gain weight.I am 50 and still feel attractive.
Latinlandish wrote: "I think Claire's advice is good: Keep your back straight and don't gain weight.I am 50 and still feel attractive."
Well there are somedays I feel 80 and some I feel like I am 19. I am partial to the later, but I think your only as old as you feel.
You are so right. I will put it like that: if I have money in my pocket you would never say I'm 50, I look like 35, if I'm feeling sick or poor I feel like 70.
I have no ageism, lol. I didn't mean it to sound like I did. I also agree that Meryl Streep is beautiful. I just meant to say that it isn't how I pictured Claire. I picture Claire much more classic in her beauty. Every reader interprets things differently.
Well, I am 66 and men still look at me and follow me around in stores...and not old men....men as young as 40s. I have been told I don't look my age and people think I have frosted or bleached my hair which is white...but a pretty color of white that looks platinum. Some days when I feel bad I feel 70-ish which I will be in 4 years! Yipes...but I am fighting it every step of the way. I do my best to look nice and I carry myself with confidence...so maybe that is the secret....feel like you look good...and you do! If any of us have old old photos or portraits of our grandmothers and great greats...they look old by the time they are 40 and they dress old. It was a way of life for them...they thought they had to look that way.
this is a great thread! i love reading everyone's responses!my least favorite characters are roger and bree - they bore me.
there are definitely less likeable characters, but at least they spice up the story line and add something interesting (not necessarily positive) to the books.
roger (especially) and bree are dull. roger is extremely ill-suited for the 18th century and, unfortunately, comes off very incapable in comparison to jamie.
* edited to change 20th to 18th...thanks, sharon!
You mean ill-suited for the 18th century don't you? I think he only THINKS himself ill-suited. I love Roger and don't like Bree. I think she is a spoiled brat and I think Claire has spoiled her and cuts her too much slack. In my opinion Bree is right on par with Leghair. Bree has all of Jamie's unflattering attributes and none of his good ones...JMHO...and I'm not talking about looks...I am talking about personality. I think I am going to LOVE Willie when I get to read more of him.
I like both Roger and Bree. I think the only character that I have nothing but hate for is Harley Boble, followed closely by BJR.
I am with Candice. I can't stand Bree, and Roger is so insecure is annoying. In Fiery Cross he is always doubting himself, and he is never never sure if Bree likes him or not. Bree is always ranting about something.I don't understand why she gets so mad when she finds a letter that uncovers Jamie trying to find where Bonnet is. Jamie is trying to protect her for goodness sake. She thinks she is in the 20th cntury with all the rights and privileges of a spoiled white middle class girl.
A lot of people like their love scenes, I can't stand it, it's amazing how when DG describes J&C it sounds so true , and between R&B it sounds fake.
I think at that point it was more of a 'don't poke the sleeping snake'. She was upset that he wouldn't just let it go so they could get on with their lives. Not to mention she was worried that Bonnett would kill Jamie or Roger. I could understand that.
Sharonh wrote: "You mean ill-suited for the 18th century don't you? I think he only THINKS himself ill-suited. I love Roger and don't like Bree. I think she is a spoiled brat and I think Claire has spoiled her an..."LOL! yes, roger is ill-suited for the 18th century!
Latinlandish wrote: "I am with Candice. I can't stand Bree, and Roger is so insecure is annoying. In Fiery Cross he is always doubting himself, and he is never never sure if Bree likes him or not. Bree is always rantin..."exactly!
honestly, everytime i get to a chapter that focuses on roger (and bree sometimes too), i get a little disappointed! sometimes, i'm pleasantly surprised and the roger and/or brianna chapters are interesting, but usually, they're not.
i don't want to read about them! i want jamie, darnit, LOL!
Final, someone said it. I liked roger in the 20th century, but that's it. He seems so clumsy and off that i want to smack him through the page sometimes:) And compared to J&C the love scenes between B&R are cold and lack emotion. Maybe I am just a die hard J&C loyalist. It could be worse;)
I don't think he's amazing like Jamie, but in all honesty I liked the fact that he floundered in the 18th century. Claire had her medical knowledge, Bree knew how to shoot and she was going to school for engineering so she knew how to build... Bree struggled with the 18th century emotionally, Roger struggled with it physically. I found that realistic and right. It would be hard to acclimate.And in addition, when he did finally find his niche he had to leave and go back to a life he'd been gone from for many many years. Roger's struggles are more like what most other humans would have had. There are more Rogers in this world then Claires.
I have a love/hate thing with Claire,especially in the first two books. Her character in the book is very entitled, she's always ordering people around, is never wrong, does stupid things because she thinks she knows best, doesn't come off as a friendly/cheerful woman towards others. The stuff I love about her character: her interest in plants and healing, the fact that she has a special something that allows her to time travel. That fact that she's bitchy (like I said Love/Hate).
Leghair is a mean person in the book but she's supposed to be, and her character illustration is appropriate, I think. She's a bratty teenager and never really grew up as shown in the later books. She's a good villain.Jenny is a little abrasive for me as well.
The Irish guy in the later books is pretty terrible but he's still a good villain.
It seems that the female characters in the book all have a hard edge to them and if not, they're either dumb, submissive and/or helpless.
Claire's "bitchiness" is usually a cover for fear - the old "best defense is a good offense" approach to a situation.
Has anyone noticed the only person she isn't bitchy with is Bree? Its like Bree is this special princess that NO ONE must disagree with, contradict or insult in any way, form, or fashion...even if she deserves it and she DOES deserve it much of the time. There are very few times when I like Bree even the remotest bit in any of the books. She IS over-sensitive about her stature and will let you know in a second if she thinks you have stepped on her toes about it...which in my opinion is being over-sensitive. Also, when Roger was showing too much attention to Amy whatshername..the widow...I can't believe that Bree didn't throw a hissy fit and put a stop to that at once...even though Roger had good intentions and wasn't romantically interested in Amy...and Bree knew it...HE caused all of the talk that was going around. First lesson a preacher should learn ....don't show too much attention to single women or widows!!!! Maybe I should rephrase that...don't show attention to ANY women but your wife!
Sharonh wrote: "You mean ill-suited for the 18th century don't you? I think he only THINKS himself ill-suited. I love Roger and don't like Bree. I think she is a spoiled brat and I think Claire has spoiled her an..."I completely agree Sharonh!
And I do love Roger but as Latinlandish pointed out, he was getting on my nerves in FC too... he was just too whiny. I can't get into the love scenes between him & Bree either, simply because I just don't think they are meant for each other like J&C are. The love between J&C feels real and authentic, while I just feel like Roger deserves better and Bree is a spoiled brat. I'm not feeling their chemistry and thier love seems shallow somehow... specifically on Bree's side.
But, watching their love and commentment grow throughout the books is what it's all about. Roger was not at all prepared for life in the 18th Century, emotionally or physically. Bree was, thanks a good deal to Frank. So, it always got to Roger that he was never as good at shooting, for example, as Bree, Jamie or Ian. At times, Roger felt like he wasn't needed and had a hard time seeing where he fit into the scope of things. He felt he was the man and should be able to do things as well as she could{male ego, you know}. Also, alot of Bree's attitude is a cover for fear and lack of self-confidence. She also works through alot of that as time passes. DG admitted somewhere that she had a hard time defining Bree in her own mind early on, but, later in the story did come to terms with her. You can almost tell where that happens and Bree begins to put othersahead of herself. It's all a process of maturing for both Bree and Roger, as it is with any married couple. You all are right about your observations, but, give it time. They are both amazing characters.
The thing that bothers me about everyone who dislikes Bree and Roger (but Bree, in particular) is that we're not remembering that they are essentially from our own time. Some of us might like a dominant, possessive man (like me), but others (like Bree) want an equal. Someone who can take care of them, but also allow them freedom to have their own thoughts (dream journal, riding, breeches, hunting, digging holes for kilns, etc.) Bree, to me, is thoroughly 20th century and I can't imagine very many young women from today going back to the Revolutionary war era and having any idea what to do, how to act or what to say. I think Herself does a good job of showing that struggle, and Bree's success in growing as a person.I have only read Echo once, but I remember being a little bit bored by their story, as though their love were more fragile than Claire and Jamie's; it feels more like a balancing act than a deeply rooted tree, but Roger and Bree work at it to keep it going, and do find real joy in each other and their life together.
I'd have to say my leave favorite characters are Allan Christie (I'm reading Fiery Cross just now), Leoghaire (as an adult more than at Leoch), and Geillis. I liked Geillis in Outlander, mostly because of her stark contrast to the village women, but grew to dislike her as the story progressed- particularly when she got all demented with the boys. Ew.
Ladytron wrote: "I have a love/hate thing with Claire,especially in the first two books. Her character in the book is very entitled, she's always ordering people around, is never wrong, does stupid things because s..."i agree with this...well said! although i often find myself cheering claire on, there are times when i want to strangle her.
Lisa wrote: "The thing that bothers me about everyone who dislikes Bree and Roger (but Bree, in particular) is that we're not remembering that they are essentially from our own time. Some of us might like a dom..."well, claire is from a different time too and she's done okay.
but really, my issue with bree and roger has little to do with their difficult transition into 18th century living...they're just boring!
although i'm glad jamie got to see his daughter and grandchild, i kinda wish roger and bree went back to the 20th century in Drums of Autumn...where they belong.
No way because then Jemmy wouldn't be Jemmy. I love that kid.
Mary G. wrote: "But, watching their love and commentment grow throughout the books is what it's all about. Roger was not at all prepared for life in the 18th Century, emotionally or physically. Bree was, thanks ..."I can see your point, and agree that Claire is also an independent 20th century woman who did just fine… I disliked Bree even when she was interacting with Roger while IN the 20th century – she gained some of my respect in ABOSAA, and I have yet to read Echo… but I still I think Bree just seems selfish and unwilling to bend. I would like her more if she was shown to recognize that Roger needs something from her at times, but seems like he’s doing all the bending in their relationship. I am ALL for equality and you would be hard pressed to find anyone who believes it as strongly as I do; my husband respects my independence and shares my sense of equality, but…. we also realize at times we each need our ego stroked and are willing to do that…. A real marriage is also about sacrifice and flexibility. I think Claire and Jaime do that well, whereas Bree seems inflexible. Darn it, I feel like saying to her that if Roger needs to feel like ‘the man’ once in a while, get off your high horse and give an inch for crying out loud… no matter what century you choose to live in!
I completely agree also. She is like that.
I am not a fan of Bree either, I find her boring and she annoys me. I do like Roger though and feel that Bree and Roger do not complement each other at all. Not a good match.
I like Bree and Roger, both. I also liked them together in the beginning. When Roger fell in love with her before Claire went back to Jamie. How they were making trips to see each other. Something shifted when they went back in time though. They sort of stopped fitting. When I read them it feels more like when I read Frank and Claire, just a little empty. Still, though, I wouldn't change anything because I got Jemmy and Mandy out of it and I love those kids.
Jenny Murray is my least favorite - she seems suspicious, intractable and too judgmental. AND, she seems to be the only person in the series that Claire is fearful of - Claire cares a lot about what Jenny thinks of her. Jenny seems to be jealous of Jamie's love for Claire.
Susan K. wrote: "Jenny Murray is my least favorite - she seems suspicious, intractable and too judgmental. AND, she seems to be the only person in the series that Claire is fearful of - Claire cares a lot about wha..."I still like Jenny, but haven't read Echo yet... I'm told that my opinion will change after reading it. I've been putting it off for so long, but it is officially next on the TBR list!
You are so right Susan! I had never thought of it...but Claire does seem to care what Jenny thinks of her...but it may be that Jenny raised Jamie so to speak after their mother died. Jamie has a special love for Jenny and she caused him years of anguish for not forgiving him for so long when Ian disappeared and then went to live with the Indians. I think Jenny has a hard time accepting Claire because she doesn't understand Claire...and never will. Plus Jamie is her baby brother. I don't like Jenny either right now but in some scenes I loved her. I am afraid she is going to be BIG TROUBLE between Jamie and Claire in the new book and any future books. Jamie needs to find her a man and quick. I'd like to see her with Tom Christie. I like him and I want to see him happy and I think maybe Jenny could smooth out some of his rough edges and make him happy....especially if she let him "spank" her! LOL :)
I like the Jenny-Tom match up too! Someone else thought of it in another thread. But can you imagine the sparks flying between them? They are both so opinionated and they both think they are right about everything. What kind of marriage ceremony would they have? Would Tom marry a Catholic? The thing about Jenny is that she started out better than she ended - she was okay in Outlander, but absolutely mean-spirited in some of the later books. So maybe she can soften somewhat.
Plus, I think she'll need to be told about Claire being a time traveler, especially if Brianna and Roger re-appear. (Which of course, they will, right??)
I still maintain that despite Jenny's mistakes, she is a caring strong character. The characters can't always make the right choices, otherwise what fun would the books be.**hint of an echo spoiler in this paragraph** And as far as what happened in Echo... well, because of the surrounding circumstances, I can completely understand and forgive. **spoiler ended**
The only characters I like least are the ones that I feel have zero redeeming qualities, and that is Harley Boble, he has nothing. And BJR has very little.
Yeah, I think Claire protested too much when she didn't want Jamie to kill BJR because of Frank. I think she should have kept her mouth shut and let him kill him. He had absolutely no redeeming qualities in my opinion.
I understand that it was because she worried about Frank, but I agree that it was one of the more selfish things she's ever asked of him. Jamie deserved his retribution and she should never have asked him to put Frank in front of himself.Though I did love how Jamie told her that it wasn't for Frank that he spared BJR, but that he did it for Claire's own sanity so she didn't have to carry the guilt of conscience.
Susan K. wrote: "Jenny Murray is my least favorite - she seems suspicious, intractable and too judgmental. AND, she seems to be the only person in the series that Claire is fearful of - Claire cares a lot about wha..."I do not think Jenny is jealous of Jamie's love for Claire, since she had the same thing with Ian Sr.
If I remember correctly, she was envious of Clarie's adventures. I dont think Jenny has travelled out of Lallybroch.
Sharonh wrote: "You are so right Susan! I had never thought of it...but Claire does seem to care what Jenny thinks of her...but it may be that Jenny raised Jamie so to speak after their mother died. Jamie has a s..."I don't think Jenny should re-marry. I really felt that Jenny and Ian Sr. had a deep loving marriage. I would like to think that Jenny would take no other after having Ian.
Maybe so but she needs someone to distract her from messing with Jamie and Claire!Possible spoiler alert!!!!
Especially since Claire bumped uglies with LJG. She isn't gonna like that at all.
I think she was jealous of the adventures, but she also admitted that she didn't want Claire to take her brother away again.She wasn't jealous of the love Jamie and Claire shared, what she was was sad that the brother she loved was always gone. Tying him to Loaghaire was a way of keeping him close. She admitted that.
Yeah, selfish of her too! Leghair nearly killed him. She should have been kissin' Claire's arse after Claire saved his life AGAIN! If she will stay out of their business...I would like her...I think.
I guess I have two least favorites. Bree is bratty and impossible to relate to. She has Jamie's stubborness and temper, but none of the heart. She's one of the only characters that DG has created that I feel is unrealistic. Seriously, does she have to be good at EVERYTHING she tries???I don't care if she's a "20th century" woman, she doesn't treat Roger with the respect that a husband should be shown, she belittles him.
The other is Jenny. Oh Jenny, she started off somewhat likable. Although the first altercation with Jamie at Lallybroch made me a wee bit uncomfortable. I have a younger brother and I just cannot in my life imagine being that "familiar" with him. She's way too interested in controlling his sex life, and his life in general. It's just weird. I bet she's one hell of a mother-in-law too! I feel sorry for the wives of her sons.
Sharonh wrote: "Yeah, selfish of her too! Leghair nearly killed him. She should have been kissin' Claire's arse after Claire saved his life AGAIN! If she will stay out of their business...I would like her...I th..."Haha.... "Leghair"
hahaha I didn't like her either. She almost got Claire killed only because Jamie married her. He didn't even like her that way. It was really nice of Claire not to have her punished when Colum asked her in the second book.Honestly Claire is sometimes my least favorite character. I like her, but there are just some part where i think she says some things to Jamie that are unfair. Like the duel part in Dragonfly in Amber.
two things I hate about Claire...she has no problem giving everyone her opinion about most things but cannot for the life of her say in plain words how she feels about Jamie to Jamie...at least in Outlander. The other is that she forgets how many times Jamie has saved her butt but keeps telling him how she saved him all those times.
that one always frustrated me too. Jamie would be dead without Claire, but MAN, Claire would definitely be DEAD without Jamie!
Another annoying Claire moment from book 2: When she barges into the warehouse and says "It's small pox" after Jamie tells her to stay put.
I sure do hope so. Just became single at 42. I'm hopeful.