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Least Favorite Character?
message 151:
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Gwennie, biblioholic
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Sep 29, 2010 07:37AM
Sometimes I see glimpses of Jamie things in Willie. Like the end of Echo, when Jenny said that he was like his father. Yeah, mostly though he's not. I guess he's more 'nurture' then 'nature'. Ian is ALOT more like Jamie.
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I don't think we have seen all that Willie will become. It is in him...but he has to overcome his upbringing by stuffy, stiff English grandparents and parents...also he was really really spoiled during the formative years and he must have learned his social graces from Lord John whom I really love. Willie will show his true colors....just wait for it....as Claire says "I'd bet my best shift"....something will happen to draw Willie to Jamie and I bet DG will write it in a heart rending way...or it could be totally comical...but it will be BIG!
I really like William and I don’t know why! I think there is a lot of Jamie in him, and don’t forget, he’s still just a boy. I was thinking back to how naive I was at 18, and could give him some leeway because of that. He’s learned a lot now, from eating raw frogs and being dumped into a latrine, so I think he’ll just continue to grow. :)
Sharonh wrote: "My least favorite is Laoghaire. I cannot for the life of me understand why Jamie had to go see her when she was humping her gardener or whatever he is/was. That just doesn't make sense to me. If..."That still eats at me everytime I think about it!! I don't understand it either! Especially since Claire is back in the picture! I would think Jamie would be saying "Leghair who??!"
I really think sometimes that LJG would have loved to have found someone he loved more than Jamie....someone who could be his...since Jamie NEVER would/will.
can't he just leave Claire and Jamie alone/? can't he find another lover??Seriously!
And another thought... considering L. was in love w/Jamie since she was 16, then when she finally got him... she didn't know what to do with him! Suffice it to say? Jamie was just too much man for her! Isn't that enough to satisfy his ego?? Sheesh!
Now..now..ladies, if there were no LJG, Leghair, Geillis, and Malva, then, the story wouldn't be as interesting as it is. So I think, I can live with them.I'm pretty much with everyone. Leghair was my # 1. However, Echo pretty much puts the closure to the Leghair episode for me, when Jamie admitted to her that;
1.) he didn't even remembered that she was the lass he rescued (from being whipped) at Castle Leoch when she was 16. The kissing was totally out of his random curiousity.
2.) he also admitted to her that he had never needed "her". But after 10+ years in the cave and in prison, he needed to feel himself needed (not loved but needed) by someone, though, he didn't care who. --Leghair was just in the right(wrong) place at the right(wrong) time, depends on how you view it. -- That's why he agreed to marry her because she and her 2 kids needed him.
3.) she had warmed up to Claire & asked her to help her grand child, little Henri-Christian.
So now this leaves me with my #2 least favorit character, Jenny. I don't like her in the beginning, middle, to end (of Echo). However, I think she will be more colorful and even more interesting so I'm looking forward to "LOVE" to "HATE" her in book 8. :-)
Yes Wan! Well said! Leghair is just the one I love to hate. Didn't someone say we were just jealous? That she got to be with Jamie?? She will forever be the “other woman” and disliked as such.I do remember all those points and actually have to remind myself of them to rationalize their connection.
Regarding Jenny, I did like her in the beginning but I think I was just reflecting Jamie’s love and admiration for her. She is a pretty strong person in her own right but not an endearing one I would agree.
I appreciate her love for Jamie! She practically raised him and I am sure she will forever hold that special place in Jamies heart. But she also put him through a lot of unnecessary guilt in many circumstances that were beyond his control. The fact that her faith in him faultered is what gets me.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned these guys, but I hate William Buccleigh Mackenzie and after Echo, Rob Cameron. About Jenny, I don't like her much either, except as a wife and mother, she's exceptional in that case. As a sister,she tended to be domineering.
I hated William Buccleigh Mackenzie UNTIL Echo, then I found myself grudgingly liking him. I did hate Rob Cameron though.
I just read that part and the wedding wasn't mentioned in that much detail. Mainly that Jennie saw Claire standing between Jamie and Leery and that she had to walk out in the middle of taking the vows.
I don't think Jamie would ever take the blood vows with anyone but Claire. No way, no how. That would be totally out of character for him, imo.
Show me someone that he loves the same if not more than Claire and that's your answer. Impossible.
Moni wrote: "question to all you wonderful outlander fans, did Jamie take a blood vow (blood of my blood) with Laoghaire on their wedding day, like he did with claire? did i miss it?"No, he did not.
If he did...he wouldn't be the Jamie we all love...nope...that would have ruined it for me for sure!
I also hate Laoghaire. Now, what I really don't understand is how come a guy like Jamie, that is involved in printing risky political books, that has a bedroom booked in a brothel, and is involved in illegally trafficking booze, is so worried about sending alimony to a wife that he lived with for about 2 years and didn't care about him. He is on the other side of the world, for goodness sake. Who cares if he sends her money or not?
Elizabeth wrote: "Wendy wrote: "I too have had my problems with Bree. I love her on one hand but on the other I think that she is really insensitive toward Roger. She expects so much from him and he is in a complete..."Concerning Mr Willoughby, if you read "The Outlandish Companion", DG said that she had to find a way for Jamie to be able to cross the Atlantic, so she created Mr. Willoughby. I kind of think that she didn't to create such an useless character, she could have Claire take some lessons before leaving. I think Claire would be perfectly able to perform accupunture treatment on Jamie.
This site is kind of addictive... Well, here I am posting for the third time. I guess my least favorite character is actually Bree. I think she doesn't have any depth, she is unpredictable and unreal. Spoiled and selfish. I don't get her. She is simply not well developed as a character.
Latinlandish wrote: "I also hate Laoghaire. Now, what I really don't understand is how come a guy like Jamie, that is involved in printing risky political books, that has a bedroom booked in a brothel, and is involved ..."Jamie is an honorable man but not entirely moral. Therefore, he will not ignore his duties but how he gets there is entirely different. LoL.
Well I'd say he's moral, but he has his own morals. He'll smuggle to feed his family, he'll be a sedetionist because he's against the crown. He follows his own code. I actually liked that he didn't just leave Loaghaire with nothing. You also have to remember that he cared for Marsali and Joan, too.
Yes. because they're his to take care of, as well.
Exactly. Jamie takes care of his own.
More than that, Jamie takes care of his village or clan, whoever that may be at the moment :)
Well, glad to hear that. It makes me understand him. I guess that's why we love him. He is not perfect, but he is adorable. Still, I don't understand why he has to support Laoghaire. I guess he has the hots for her. After all, he is not perfect! And he is loyal. He is a mess, like all of us!But I think of he existed today he would certainly be in jail. What kind of guy would he be in the world of nowadays. That would be a good group discussion.
Jamie took an oath to Laoghaire, a promise to provide for her, her children and her home, it’s as simple as that. I don’t think he even vaguely ‘has the hots for her’.
What was that love scene with Claire in Fiery Cross in the middle of the night after he learns Laoghaire is having sex with somebody else. It certainly lit a fire on Jamie...
Only in the sense of his pride was hurt that she would want someone else after the way she was with him. That and she was his wife, and even if you aren't remotely still in love or 'have the hots' for that person anymore, it still sits funny with you when they move on.
I am just glad that Claire got up and didn't accept that misguided love. It was not for her anyway. That was a very real scene.
Yeah, Jamie was dreaming, when he did the things to Claire, that he used to do with Laoghaire. I mean, he still dreamt about Black Jack Randall, didn’t mean he was attracted to the man.
Also, Jamie is a cocky Scot! He thinks, that if he wanted, he could have any woman at all. He thought getting Laoghaire to be a dedicated wife would have been simple, but it wasn’t, and he felt jilted and confused that she rejected him.
I don’t think Jamie gives her the shaft at all really. Sometimes he might let her needs slip by when he is preoccupied, but I think in general Claire is just a different kind of woman.I am thinking of that scene in Voyager, right after their reunion, where Jamie is describing how crazy Laoghaire was with him (weeping, avoiding him, not talking to him, moping), and said something to Claire like, you were never like that. And Claire responded with, that just isn’t my way.
In general, Claire does not need Jamie to coddle her and I don’t really think Claire needs him to survive, in a strictly mechanical sense. I also believe that Claire does not like to be coddled, nor does she need to have him constantly reaffirm his feelings for her. The couple is pretty secure in their relationship, probably more secure than most couples I have ever met.
Now, if you look at the facts, of course Jamie doesn’t go back to Laoghaire after Claire comes back. That marriage gets invalidated, Jamie pays through the nose because of the things he promized Laoghaire and her family when he wed her, but really the most contact he has with her, until he goes back to Scotland, is through his lawyer, Jenny and/or Marsali.
If you went through a failed marriage and you were completely baffled as to why it ended, would you want to eventually find out why you were rejected? I sure as heck would! In order to marry someone, you need to at least invest some sort of emotion into that. At least, for Jamie, I would think so! I am not surprised why he went back to Laoghaire’s home. He wanted to know if she was really in a relationship with someone and he wanted to know why he did failed so spectacularly in that relationship!
It had nothing to do with him caring about Laoghaire over anyone else in his family, and he was secure enough in his relationship with Claire to be free to get closure on his other marriage.
I know people will probably disagree with me, but I really dislike Jocasta. I never did like her, even from the start. I knew something was up with her. The other person I don't like is, Joseph Weymess. I am over him!
Kate wrote: "Also, Jamie is a cocky Scot! He thinks, that if he wanted, he could have any woman at all. He thought getting Laoghaire to be a dedicated wife would have been simple, but it wasn’t, and he felt jil..."for somebody that could have any woman, he sure had a very small number of women in his bed. Not to mention the fact of being a virgin for so long.
Ok, many good points expressed. MO is, even if a previous marriage failed and I was now happily married to someone else, I personally couldn't care less about what the other person was doing! That relationship was severed for a reason, whether I knew the reason or not, and I personally would not look back!Yes Jamie is honorable and I do believe he would continue to honor his commitments and even love Marsali and Joan as his own but his time with L. was so brief and so miserable that I find it very hard to buy into his having to discover and "come to terms" with why L rejected him! That story line is just there to torture us!!
Latinlandish wrote: "for somebody that could have any woman, he sure had a very small number of women in his bed. Not to mention the fact of being a virgin for so long. "You don't think Jamie is a cocky Scot? We must be reading different books ;). (I don't think it has anything to do with his sexual or relationship history.)
LOL! Cocky he is, but also lovely and a natural born lover, since he really doesn't have lots of experience. Unless there were things happening in that brothel that we will never know (or maybe will, someday ;). I totally agree w Ladyhawk. I find it EXTREMELY hard to understand his need to come to terms with Laoghaire, knowing that she tried to kill Claire, that she didn't love him, and to top it all, she was geting his money and fooling around (and very wildly let's face it) with somebody else. I think DG maybe was trying to get rid of some private demons herself!!
Jamie didn’t find out that Laoghaire had conspired in Claire’s witch trial assault/capture, until after he had that creepy Laoghaire nightmare and tore the barn apart. And I’m not sure if Jamie knew at that point, or not, if Laoghaire loved him or not. I am fairly certain that Laoghaire was in love with Jamie all through Outlander & Dragonfly in Amber (and of course, admitted to Jamie later on that she though HE was in love with HER during that time period).These are not conclusions I came to after one read-through of the series. I noticed that once I finished the novels once, and read through most of them a second time, I picked up a lot more details and nuances. Might be something to consider if you’re still confused or frustrated. (Personally, rereading the divorce proceedings in Voyager made a lot more sense to me, as well as Jamie’s own motivation for not telling Claire about his marriage to Laoghaire)
I think it makes perfect sense and just shows how much more human DG’s characters are.
Moni wrote: "Ladyhawk wrote: "Also, in ECHO, now he is bringing up some French chic before he met Claire? is that going to be another story to frustrate us??"Do you mean Exile? I am pretty sure the french girl was just brought in to make the reader understand Jamie’s compulsion to save & protect Claire after he first meets her.
That's a good point, I didn't think about it. Maybe he got traumatized by not being able to protect that girl. Also he wasn't able to protect his sister from what he thought was a rape from Black Jack.I don't really mind about spoilers, I haven't read ECHO (I just finished Fiery Cross) , but it makes me mad that DG makes Jamie turn around like a puppet for Laoghaire. We have been following the character for 7 books and now he turns into a dick head?
I think Diana knows exactly what she's doing. She takes great pains to make her characters not one dimensional. Not one single character is Black and White. Yes, Bree didn't like Loaghaire. Yes, Loaghaire did and said a lot of horrible things. Just like any regular person it is not the end all of her character. Her daughters love her, Jamie cared about her... she had to have redeeming qualities. If Diana could give BJR something we could understand (he truly cared for his brother, and he married Mary to honor him), or if she could give us moments to like Bucceleigh, or Bonnet, it seems right that she would give us places to try to understand Loaghaire too.
Everything is deeper then that. Yes he loves her, but that doesn't mean he thought he would actually have her. Not to mention th at he was a young man and he thought with his other head.
Latinlandish wrote: "That's a good point, I didn't think about it. Maybe he got traumatized by not being able to protect that girl. Also he wasn't able to protect his sister from what he thought was a rape from Black J..."Read it! :) He doesn’t turn around like a puppet for Laoghaire. He goes back to her property to find out if the rumors are true that she is seeing someone (his payment agreement with her ends if she remarries), but then he finally finds out WHY their marriage failed because he runs into Laoghaire for [hopefully] the last time.
It’s closure for me as a reader, at least, because personally, I was curious after all the keening and wailing Laoghaire did for Jamie. Maybe DG was just tying up that loose end in the series (because God knows Outlander has a lot of loose ends), but I felt as though it was an understandable course of action for Jamie to take.
As a side note, Echo... wasn’t the best novel in the series. And there were far more memorable scenes in the novel to ponder over. At least, when I think back to reading it, I don’t think of that scene.
And now I want to go reread it, but I lent my copy out! :(
He is a wee bit jealous. Again, that is normal. You always hear about couples finding out that their ex-spouse is dating again and they find it a hard pill to swallow.
Moni wrote: “But in Dragonfly in Amber, he divulges to her that he wanted to marry her because he fell in love with her! Go figure? While he was kissing longhair in the alcove in Outlander!! I am sooo confused! I thought he loved her that is why he wanted to protect her??"Actually, I wondered about that for the LONGEST time! And then in Exile, she sort of explained it. There was one scene where Claire had helped Jamie after he had gotten beat up to spare Laoghaire and was leaning on a well. When Claire walked away, Laoghaire went over to him to say thank you, and sort of jumped him. In that scene when they are locking lips, Jamie has a though bubble above his head of Claire.
I figured in the Outlander novel, it had to have been a similar explanation. I guess I don’t feel soooo sure, because when when Jamie is locking lips with Laoghaire, and makes eye contact with Claire via the alcove, he gives her that cocky, “I can have all the girls” look. I would have thought he’d had shied away or tried to show Claire that he didn’t care about Laoghaire in the immediate.
Oh well, maybe DG will explain it further.
Moni wrote: "I thought Claire would end up with Dougal, because it looked as though Jamie was too busy kissing other girls!! "Yeah, actually when I started the series, I made sure to not spoil myself on *anything*. I had no idea who Claire would end up with! And thought at first that it would be Dougal, because Jamie was really just an afterthought until Claire stepped in to relocate his shoulder.
That's thinking like a girl, though. Jamie IS a cocky man. I thought it was perfect. He acted like a cocky man in his early twenties. We all know that Jamie is bold and brash. It would have been out of character for him to get all embarrassed or guilty when Claire saw him with Loaghaire. He had no reason to think that Claire and him had anything intimate beyond friendship.And Loaghaire is a criminal, but then so are alot of other characters in the book. Claire and Jamie included. If this story had been written from her perspective with her emotions and her feelings as the focus we wouldn't hate her so much.
I'm not on the Loaghaire fan wagon, but I wouldn't change anything. I hate when books make a character completely evil or completely good, that makes them completely boring. And I love that Diana Gabaldon writes Jamie without letting her own feminine instincts interfere.
Wendy wrote: "That's thinking like a girl, though. Jamie IS a cocky man. I thought it was perfect. He acted like a cocky man in his early twenties. We all know that Jamie is bold and brash. It would have been out of character for him to get all embarrassed or guilty when Claire saw him with Loaghaire. He had no reason to think that Claire and him had anything intimate beyond friendship. "
You are verra verra right! Actually, it made me think of the scene in Outlander when Claire, Jamie & Laoghaire are sitting on the same bench, drinking wine and listening to that bard playing music. How Jamie, ever so kindly, positioned himself so he could sit next to Claire, and not next to Laoghaire, on the pretext so Claire could, “hear better” (or see better). I quite enjoyed that stealthy move of his :)
Moni wrote: "yeah, I was routing for Dougal, then when Claire teases Jamie with her foot under the table, I thought that they would just be good friends, funny how DG's mind works, i really do love the story of Jamie and Claire!"Yes, and also the horse riding scene with Jamie struggling to wrap Claire in his plaid, was super super cute. I think I want to re-reread Outlander, along with Exile, so I can mentally add in Jamie’s cute “I want her” scenes.
And wow, we are so OT! XD
I want to reread them over again now too! I'm in the middle of the Hunger Games trilogy and the North and South trilogy but it's hard to not put them down and read Outlander again for the umpteenth time.Kate - I love those scenes too! Or how after she cleaned up his arm when they first got to leoch and she traced his whip marks with her finger and he held her when she cried. I get all emotional thinking about it even now. I knew as soon as I got to this part that he was, without a doubt, who she was going to fall in love with.
It was an insanely cute scene! I am glad that Outlander is free on Kindle right now, because I lent out both of my copies of Outlander and I realllllly want to reread this now! ^_^
