Outlander Series discussion
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Least Favorite Character?
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Carren
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Feb 14, 2011 04:41PM
She certainly had a one track mind. Didn't she?
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Crazy4more - Geilis wanted the photo of Bree so she had someone on whom to focus when she traveled to the future. I don't think she knew specificially who Ian was as far as his relation to Jamie or Claire. He was just unlucky and she thought sex with male virgins was key to getting some 'power'. That's why she was mad at Ian when she found out he wasn't a virgin.
There a TON of responses to this topic so I apologize in advance for not reading everything and possibly re-hashing stuff already said... Just wanted to say THANK YOU! Finally! I don't feel guilty for not liking Bree. She seems overly distant and analyzing. I never did warm up to her and always felt like Roger deserved better. Phew... There, I said it. Now I feel better.
Oh, and yah - Lizzie and the twins is creepy.
I'll say it again. All the characters just make the stories so much more interesting. Love 'em or hate 'em, they're what keeps us reading and looking for more.
I am still trying to decide what I think of Bree. One thing she and Claire have in common they are heck on men! LOL I like Claire but I will say this..Poor Jamie! She get's him in more trouble. But with that said, it is the difference in the cultures and the times. We have come a long way baby! :-)Danelle
taita wrote: "There a TON of responses to this topic so I apologize in advance for not reading everything and possibly re-hashing stuff already said...
Just wanted to say THANK YOU! Finally! I don't feel ..."
taita wrote: "There a TON of responses to this topic so I apologize in advance for not reading everything and possibly re-hashing stuff already said... Just wanted to say THANK YOU! Finally! I don't feel ..." Hi Taita. Yes I feel same way. I had a hard time warming up to Bree during most of the book. I understand she was upset to find out Frank who raised her was not her real father but I didn't like her reaction when she found out Jamie was her real father. As is if it was Jamie's fault he is her father when she first found out and how she seemed angry that Claire didn't leave Jamie the first time he took her to the stones. Anyway I know she is supposed to be stubborn like her father Jamie but sometimes she was just so unfair. The way she treated Jamie sometimes and Roger. etc...anyway ofcourse if it was not for these characters the story would but be as interesting. But still I don't know but her... I think I was able to warm up to William more even though he is angry with Jamie now...will see how he turns out in next book. I am trying to picture him in my mind how he would resemble his father Jamie.
taita wrote: "There a TON of responses to this topic so I apologize in advance for not reading everything and possibly re-hashing stuff already said...
Just wanted to say THANK YOU! Finally! I don't feel ..."
taita wrote: "There a TON of responses to this topic so I apologize in advance for not reading everything and possibly re-hashing stuff already said...
Just wanted to say THANK YOU! Finally! I don't feel ..."
I thought that Bree's reaction to finding out about her paternity was understandable. She loved Frank, she always thought he was her father. Then she is blindsided and finds out that he wasn't. No it wasn't Jamie's fault, but it definitely made Bree's life a lie. I think it was easy to not be mad at Frank because he was already dead, but if he had been alive when she found out she would have been just as angry at him.When i put myself into her shoes I can completely understand why she was as upset as she was. I always got irritated with Bree more when she would do stupid things, like flinging herself through the stones without telling Roger. Or going after the rings from Bonnet on her own. She was too rash and impulsive.
OK so maybe Bree wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed when it came to reacting rationally. When she went through the stones, she didn't stop thinking like a 20th century woman. She honestly thought she could do many of the things she did (or will do) because that was the way she was brought up, to think and do for herself. Remember the situations that Claire found herself in Outlander? Some of the stuff she did may have been acceptable in the 20th century, just not acceptable in the 18th century.The apple didn't fall far from the tree!
I agree completely. She reacted like a hot headed 20th century woman. And when I say that I was irriated with her I don't mean that I didnt like her. I like Bree alot. I think she's a good mix of Jamie and Claire by nature and Frank by nurture. I can find stuff frustrating about most of the characters. These flaws are what make them more realistic, IMO.
He Wendy..I see your point about Bree and her reaction when she found out about who her real father was and I think it could be just the way Claire blurted it out or handled the situation. Maybe if Claire had approached the matter differently Bree wouldn't have reacted as she did. I don't know, that is just what I think. But at that moment Claire couldn't help herself either after seeing Jamie's stone with her name on it.
Kristen wrote: "Crazy4more - Geilis wanted the photo of Bree so she had someone on whom to focus when she traveled to the future. I don't think she knew specificially who Ian was as far as his relation to Jamie o..." Hi Kristen. What I didn't get or understand regarding Geilis is she said something about 'getting rid of future Fraser's' or something to that effect. And it made me wonder when I read it what she meant by that or why she wants to destroy the 'Frasers'. I may have to re read that part again. I was confused with that.
The Fraser line was supposed to end with Bree. Something about Jamie 's grandfather Lord Lovat. If memory serves me right.
Carren wrote: "The Fraser line was supposed to end with Bree. Something about Jamie 's grandfather Lord Lovat. If memory serves me right." Ok. Thanks Carren. I am under the understanding that that is one reason Claire killed Geilis is she was afraid Geilis was going to hurt or kill Bree when she found her. Mother's instinct to protect her child or sonething. So I assumed she had taken Bree's picture so she can find her in the future. But maybe I was or am wrong but that is what I thought when I read that part.
Another character i liked somewhat at first then hated was Tom's Christy's step daughter (her name escpaes me now) how she lied to Jamie's face saying he had been with her. I could not believe it. I had a feeling for some reason that she was the one that put that voodoo stuff that Bree and Jamie saw in their property but waited to see if it actually was her. I felt bad for her later when she was found murdered but there was no excuse for lying like that. What would we do w/o these characters in the story? Betraying Claire ad Jamie like that after that opened her home to her and treated her like family. She could not find someone else to blame or trick?
I only felt bad for her when her brother came forward and admitted that she didn't want to hurt Claire like that. That he forced her to lie. He admitted that he killed her because she had planned to come forward and admit that she had lied.I definitely felt bad for Tom. Two rotten kids, lol.
Kristen wrote: "Crazy4more - Geilis wanted the photo of Bree so she had someone on whom to focus when she traveled to the future. I don't think she knew specificially who Ian was as far as his relation to Jamie o..."Geilis was determined to rid Fraser line bc of the prophesy. She didn't know about Bree in the 20th century. Especially the way Claire reacted and determined to kill another soul was more than just hatred. She knew it was either Geilis or Bree would live. That's my take on killing Geilis.
Wendy F wrote: "I only felt bad for her when her brother came forward and admitted that she didn't want to hurt Claire like that. That he forced her to lie. He admitted that he killed her because she had planned..." Yes Wendy that is when I started feeling bad for what's her name,after she was murdered and her brother admitting he was the one who killed her because she was going to tell the truth. I had this feeling the whole time he was behind it. Yes poor Tom raising those kids. What a mess they caused for the Fraser's.
I'm done with ABOSAA. Wow what a book, love it. Yes, poor Tom. Tom having feelings for Claire was my last guess. My heart ached for him. After hearing Alan's scheme, he's my least fav. He's threatening, manipulative, crazy, he's just sick so wrong to Malva.
I really enjoyed ABOSAA. The first Outlander & ABOSAA are my favorites. I am reading Echo in the Bone right now. So far so good. I am trying to take my time with this one though as we all have to wait for book 8.
Crazy4more wrote: "I'm done with ABOSAA. Wow what a book, love it. Yes, poor Tom. Tom having feelings for Claire was my last guess. My heart ached for him. After hearing Alan's scheme, he's my least fav. He's t..." Yes crazy4more, Malva's brother was a real jerk. Knowing what was going on and still threatening Jamie..etc..i could not stand him. I would love to see a movie made of Outlander as long as they pick a good Jamie to play the role. So far I think Gabriel Aubry, the italian model,is the one who resembles Jamie the most from Jamie's drawing in THE EXILE book. When I googled Jamie Fraser's and his picture came up my mouth dropped. But that is my opinion. The man in FINE...too bad he is not an actor.
...drooling...sorry. Speaking of THE EXILE, I never thought Claire was that beautiful. She was drawn so pretty, curvilucious and way younger that I'd imagined. The hardest thing for me to comprehend was these two started out what? Jamie at 23 and Claire 28? and now 20-26 yrs later. They can't get old and die, there is just no good end to this series, is there. I need some paranormal intervention for Jamie & Claire.
Crazy4more wrote: "...drooling...sorry. Speaking of THE EXILE, I never thought Claire was that beautiful. She was drawn so pretty, curvilucious and way younger that I'd imagined. The hardest thing for me to co..." Hi crazy4more...I thought Claire looked as I imagined her from the drawings in THE EXILE...just as I imagined Jamie from the drawings...especially the before and after photos on the last pages of the Exile book. Aren't Jamie and Claie like 4 years apart? because when she told Jamie that she was not a witch but from the future it was on her birthday and I believe she said she had turned 27...and i think he was still 23..hmmm
Teresita, you're right. I returned the books to the library. That sounded familiar. How I wished it wasn't 20 yrs they had lost.
Crazy4more wrote: "Teresita, you're right. I returned the books to the library. That sounded familiar. How I wished it wasn't 20 yrs they had lost." Yes crazy4more, 20 years is a long time to be without the love of your life... I felt sorrier for Jamie than for Claire because atleast she had her daughter and Frank (a family) while Jamie was living in a cave and "alone"...then in prison...he had nothing...So Claire should not be too hard on him if he did find another woman even for 1 day or whatever. My heart went out to him. He wanted to die in Culloden when she left because I guess he felt he had nothing left to live for. How sad is that?
Teresita wrote: "Crazy4more wrote: "Teresita, you're right. I returned the books to the library. That sounded familiar. How I wished it wasn't 20 yrs they had lost." Yes crazy4more, 20 years is a long time to be..."If not for Bree, I think Claire would have wanted to die without him too, like in Echo.
Well further to the point she wouldn't have left at all, if she wasn't pregnant.
Very true! this is why I endeared TFC. Jamie had a chance to express his pains and loneliness and how only Claire can take all that away. The love they have for each other truly truly profound me.
Mimi wrote: "Teresita wrote: "Crazy4more wrote: "Teresita, you're right. I returned the books to the library. That sounded familiar. How I wished it wasn't 20 yrs they had lost." Yes crazy4more, 20 years is ..." Mimi I see what you mean. I know Claire would've died for Jamie if it was not for Bree and she would nver have left Jamie but still Jamie was more alone than Claire was and had it worse because she had Bree and Frank.
Agreed, just...Claire was forced to return to a life she would have loved even 3 years ago, all the while knowing that it could have been very different, much happier. Having found everything you never even began to hope for and than having it snatched away and being returned to the life you once thought you were happy in...
I always thought that Claire was a bit trapped there, being forced to make her life matter, to return to the past, to pre-Jamie life, seeing Jamie in Bree, but not being able to talk about him with anyone, not telling Bree who her father was. Almost like...she was forced to pretend he didn't exist, that THEY never existed.
Also I'm not sure how much Frank helped...
Could be cause I strongly dislike Frank(read-loathe)...
Mimi- I agree with you. Jamie had a hard life, but in a sense I think Claire's was just as empty. Just because you live with people doesn't mean that you're connected. Neither knew if the other lived. Jamie was in a cage and then ardsmuir, but the truth is that he couldn't have been with Claire even if she had stayed. He had no options, that was his path no matter what. On top of that everyone could mourn Claire with him. Claire, on the other hand, lived in this ghost marriage, a shell of what she had with Frank before, let alone the magic she had with jamie. It's like, she was given a life of diamonds and had it ripped away and replaced with glass. In addition, she had to pretend like everything was perfect so she could give her daughter, identical to her father, a perfect existence. The whole time living with people who thought she was making the whole thing up. As all this was happening she had to think about how she made the choice to leave and whether it was right or wrong.
Jamie had only one option, hide/prison. Claire chose her life.
I feel like I'm not saying it right... I suppose it's that to choose and then have to live with whether I'd made the right option is really hard.
I think that they each had it equally hard, just in very different ways.
Wendy F wrote: "Mimi- I agree with you. Jamie had a hard life, but in a sense I think Claire's was just as empty. Just because you live with people doesn't mean that you're connected. Neither knew if the other ..." Hi Wendy...The way you put it really made me think about it and I have to say you did make me see things alittle differently. Thank You. I have to say now that I read what you wrote that I had forgotten about how Claire lived in such a loveless marraige with Frank and that sometimes just because you are living with someone does not make it better. It reminded me of the loveless marriage I had and how I felt more alone with my ex than when without him. I think Claire felt just as empty and lonely as Jamie. I remember after she and Jamie found each other again and she told Jamie "it was so lonely without you.'.
Mimi wrote: "Agreed, just...Claire was forced to return to a life she would have loved even 3 years ago, all the while knowing that it could have been very different, much happier. Having found everything you ..." Mimi..I see your point and have to say that you are right...sometimes I forget that Claire even with her husband Frank and daughter was still lonely w/o him and if it was not for her daughter I don't think she would've made it. When she returned to the future she was like a zombie or i don't know how else to put it. To have to live without the person you truly love and settle for someone you no longer love must not have been easy for Claire. I do sympathise with her too. Thank you your reply.
Mimi wrote: "Agreed, just...
Claire was forced to return to a life she would have loved even 3 years ago, all the while knowing that it could have been very different, much happier. Having found everything you ..."
Exactly. Or how she finally told him about the life she had with Frank, how it was cold and angry all the time. And he felt for her, that he thought she had it harder then him.
I'm sure if Frank had divorced Claire as she requested before Bree was borned, Claire would have a much better life. I can't imagine living while hiding, not able to express and talk to your daughter about her real dad and the love of your life. Yes, it would be horrible for Bree not having a father figure but really what kind of a family life when your parents seemed to argue, fight, not laughing or not talking...unless they are at Disney. That's sad.
Yes, Frank would not divorce Claire bc in the beginning, he still loved her and probably was hoping she can forget and fall back in love with him. Plus, I must say, Frank was being a responsible husband and father-to-be. Little did he realized how strong the love btwn Claire and Jamie was. Then of course after Bree was born, everything changed for him. His love for Bree was unconditional and he knew he'd lost Claire forever bc looking at Bree reminded the love and Jamie were real and will never be forgotten.
So as written, Bree got 2 parents loving her but not each other. Claire burried herself among books and school to be a Dr. Lastly, Frank, loving father and burried himself in other relationships looking for love to replace Claire.
Sighs...what a sad 20 years it was for everyone.
Why the heck did Gabaldon had to pick 20yrs? Can't she have Claire walk thru the stone in a different time like when Jamie was in the cave. Such wasted years and now, everyone's old, not fair, humph.....
Crazy4more wrote: "I'm sure if Frank had divorced Claire as she requested before Bree was borned, Claire would have a much better life. I can't imagine living while hiding, not able to express and talk to your daugh..." very well put crazy4more...i know 20 years was a long time but i guess that's the way it had to be...maybe she wanted Bree to be old enough to understand and be a woman to let her mother go. That's the only thing I can think of. I don't know if Claire would've gone before or taken her with her to that time. So are you reading EITB now? All the books are awesome really.
So who would your choice be to play Jamie and Claire if a movie was made of Outlander? I keep saying Gabriel Aubry even though I know he is just a model. Too bad. Wish he would take acting lessons if he hasn't. I would like to see him in a movie. He is a real Hottie.
Oh no...I'm not going near EITB bc I heard thru the grape vines how horrible the cliff-hanger was. And the 8th book won't come out until 2012 or 2013. Oh no, so sir-ree, I'm staying away, plus ABOSAA left me fulfilled...until the next 2 books.In term of actor, I saw someone posted Chris coming out with a movie as a superhero, forgot name. Anywho, I thought he had the perfect height & muscles and it's the height that made Jamie stand out like no other. Do you remember anytime his look was mentioned as handsome though? it's always the red hair, slanted eyes, viking height, strength, cheftan image, etc but never handsome-take-my-breath-away moment. Oh but what would I do to meet a real life Jamie, sigh....
If Claire had come back while Jamie was in the cave she would have still been separated from him for 15 years. He was in hiding and then went to prison. When he got out of Ardsmuir he went into Indentured servitude. Coming back earlier wouldn't have made much of a difference other then she would have been living without much food and struggling like Jenny did.Plus, she couldn't drag Bree through the stones as a child and she couldn't leave her behind.
Also, Bree said that she never realized that her parents marriage had problems until she saw Jamie and Claire together.
You got a point there. It was a bad situation for Jamie.
Crazy4more wrote: "Oh no...I'm not going near EITB bc I heard thru the grape vines how horrible the cliff-hanger was. And the 8th book won't come out until 2012 or 2013. Oh no, so sir-ree, I'm staying away, plus AB..."Crazy4more wrote: "Oh no...I'm not going near EITB bc I heard thru the grape vines how horrible the cliff-hanger was. And the 8th book won't come out until 2012 or 2013. Oh no, so sir-ree, I'm staying away, plus AB..." Crazy4more, I believe Jamie asked her in one of the books, not sure if it was ABOSAA, how he looked to her and she said something like 'you are so beautiful I feel my heart will break'...i don't know if she so much as said he was handsome but that is how I see him. I don't care so much how 'big' he is as far as body but I care more for the face. To me, if he is not handsome I don't care about the body 'so much'. Like for example I see all these girls/women making a fuss over Taylor Lautner's body in New Moon/Eclipse as if they had never seen a man w/o a shirt before and i for one can't stand him,no matter how great his body his. I find him hideous(Well maybe hideous is too strong a word, I think it's mostly his attitude as Jacob that turns me off)..sorry but that is how I see him and his arrogance in the film makes it worse for me. But I think Robert Pattinson whether as Edward or in whatever role is absolutely gorgeous and I don't care how skinny he is. It's his face and hair that does it for me. Anyway that is just how I think. Halle Berry's ex (yes i will say it again) is breathtakingly handsome. Which is how I would see Jamie.
Yes, Halle's ex is so handsome. To me, Jamie has to know how to act or else it'll ruin the whole movie!!!! The chemistry btwn J&C has to work too. I've seen movies where the actors looked ok but the chemistry was so perfect, they pulled it off. No, to me, whoever Jamie will be, he has to be at least tall and Claire needs healthy boobs and butt as mentioned numerous time!
I too hate it that Jamie and Claire lost twenty years, but it is part of the story. And as far as lamenting that now they are "old", maybe what the story is telling us is that "old" does not mean love, touching, desire, and all the love really is must fade away with advancing years. I admit that I am a grandmother, but perhaps it is a message in itself. If those of us who are not in our twenties can identify with the love and passion of young Jamie and Claire then perhaps readers in their twenties should appreciate what comes with time - Jamie did. Just food for thought.
Crazy4more wrote: "Yes, Halle's ex is so handsome. To me, Jamie has to know how to act or else it'll ruin the whole movie!!!! The chemistry btwn J&C has to work too. I've seen movies where the actors looked ok but..." yes crazy4more I agree that the 'chemistry' has to be there btwn the actors for the movie to work. that is very important.
I longed for the missing 20 yrs not bc J&C can love each other any less or more, but bc a lifetime of love btwn J&C is not enough, let alone minus 20yrs.
In the beginning of Outlander when Claire first sees Jamie she says that he's not classicly handsome, but that he has a magnatism, a chemistry, that is attractive.
Wendy F wrote: "In the beginning of Outlander when Claire first sees Jamie she says that he's not classicly handsome, but that he has a magnatism, a chemistry, that is attractive."I know, but I always pictured him as extremely handsome and hot.
Could have more to do with the man he is...
I agree... You know that guy who is very hot, sext, tall, strong... then he opens his mouth and ~ yuck!! Jamie has it all!!! HE'S THE TOTAL PACKAGE!!
Don't get me wrong, Jamie is hot, I have no qualms about handsome actor for Jamie. In my view, any man with Jamie's qualities is hot and sexy. I'm ok with so so looking but definitely can act, fight, good sense of humor with a leadership persona to die for.
Someone said that Claire couldn't have brought Bree through the stones to join Jamie again...well heck...Bree and Roger brought Jem AND Mandy through and Mandy had a life-threatening heart condition...so that reason won't hold water will it?
Jamie was described through all the books by everyone who described him as "big lad, big-un" etc. He also caught the eye of every woman he passed...so he had to be ruggedly handsome...broad shoulders, narrow waist, muscular long legs and arms....not to mention the way he carried himself with self-assurance that he didn't even have to think about it, he was so graceful and commanding in appearance. Plus he had some other "things" that women liked or wondered about too! :)
I think that Jamie is SERIOUSLY attractive. The kind of man that you are just drawn to because he's just so alive and full of vibrancy. I'm just saying that Diana made sure to have Claire mention that this attraction that women had to him wasn't based on his looks, because those weren't perfectly handsome (like Brad pitt). That it came from his life force. Like Gerard Butler or Christian Bale. Am I describing this right?
There's something so much sexier about this kind of unconventional kind of man to me. I'd take Gerard Butler's crooked smile and nose over Jason Lewis any day.
You did swell!! i love a crooked nose as well... nothing hotter than a man that can defend himself and you in a fight! Meow!!
