GOOD REVIEWS discussion
Self Publishing
>
A new way to get verified reviews and increase sales
date
newest »
newest »
Perhaps you can start withe monthly reviews being 5 instead of 10, thats my only suggestion. And how many members do you ideally wanr/need?
I can't see my previous comment so apologies if it pops up twice.... I think it's a great and democratic concept and would like to join as a member as my alter ego, USA Today Bestselling Author, Gloria Silk. Thnx
The 10 additional reviews will be cumulative - they won't all need to occur within the same month. :)
I think it would be a good idea to base the size of the featured list each month on current membership (perhaps 10 books per 100 members), that way membership can continue to grow without causing huge wait times. I'd like it to be worthwhile - especially for those who join early - so we won't start until we have at least 100 members. (Target date is Oct. 1)
You can search "Indie Author Roundtable Reviews" and answer the challenge question to join, or I will send an invite when I'm home later this evening!
:)
I think it would be a good idea to base the size of the featured list each month on current membership (perhaps 10 books per 100 members), that way membership can continue to grow without causing huge wait times. I'd like it to be worthwhile - especially for those who join early - so we won't start until we have at least 100 members. (Target date is Oct. 1)
You can search "Indie Author Roundtable Reviews" and answer the challenge question to join, or I will send an invite when I'm home later this evening!
:)
Carolyn wrote: "The 10 additional reviews will be cumulative - they won't all need to occur within the same month. :) I'm glad you clarified that. I was concerned about the indie authors (myself among them) who work a full-time job and have 5 kids... hahaha!!! 10 books and reviews in a month is steep for me... unless I give up writing!
Thanks again for organizing this!
I believe that's a good idea, Carolyn. You can count me in.
Ju wrote: "I believe that's a good idea, Carolyn. You can count me in."
Sounds good - I will send you an invite!
Sounds good - I will send you an invite!
Ju wrote: "I believe that's a good idea, Carolyn. You can count me in."
It doesn't look like I am able to send you a PM, so the invite link is below!
https://www.goodreads.com/group/invit...
It doesn't look like I am able to send you a PM, so the invite link is below!
https://www.goodreads.com/group/invit...
Sounds like a really good idea, Carolyn.
Carolyn wrote: Anyone have any thoughts on whether they think this is a good approach?? I'm all ears! :)Perhaps more importantly we should ask "what does Amazon think?" - I am presuming the reviews are going to be placed there. I ask the question because this approach doesn't sound so much different from an "exchange review" . OK, there are a few more people involved, but all know each other and all have a vested interested in in getting a good review for their book and so are hardly likely to be impartial.
A few practical thoughts - Firstly - how do we avoid reviewing an author who has already reviewed us (in which case Amazon instantly removes the review as 'reciprocal') once the group has been going on for a bit?Secondly - since we can choose which book to review from the list, does this mean that we could end up paying out endlessly to buy and review other people's books, but end up having only one person buy to review our own because it's a less popular topic. (I got chosen as a read to review feature in a Goodreads group one month - there were 3 books on offer - the erotica novel got read and reviewed by thirty people, the other person got two, and mine got one - 6 weeks later when someone accidentally noticed it!)
Thirdly - With 10 books per hundred participants - does this mean that you may have to buy 10 books and wait 10 months for your own to come up?
Fourthly - with the last point in mind - what is there to stop someone who got on the list on month 2, saying 'thanks very much' for their reviews and then disappearing off and no longer participating, while those on the waiting list are still grimly hanging on in their, paying money for books in the hopes that their book will finally reach the top of the list?
Also, there would have to be some agreement about what sort of reviews are posted. I've just recently done a review group round in another Goodreads group and whilst I've had generally good reviews from the ordinary book-buying public, I've had a problem with these 'fellow author' reviews as they seem to be trying to prove how clever and superior they all are by talking condescendingly about 'good for a self-published' novel - or claiming there are 'grammatical errors and typos'. I can't complain in that the actual star grades awarded have been 4s and 5s, but I panicked and have been re-reading my scripts with a fine-toothed comb, and there really aren't! The reviewing authors all happen to be American, and my character (writing in the first person) is Northern British which has its own grammar and syntax and I can only assume that they are going by American spelling and grammar conventions. But now their stinging criticisms of spelling etc is up on Amazon forever, putting ordinary people off. I would be happier if we agreed to keep a note of typos and sent them in person to the author, and didn't get picky in a review that may lead real people to decide not to purchase it. (After all, I don't think I've ever read even a conventionally published book that is supposed to have gone through armies of proof-readers that hasn't got one or two glaring typos!)If the book is really so bad we don't feel able to give 3 stars or above, or having paid out hard earned cash for the book we now feel sore at how bad it is and have a mean desire to want to slag the book off big time, then maybe we ought to have an agreed way of solving the situation - (contacting the moderator for advice/mediation or whatever).
Leslie and Dominique, thanks for your input! A few of this issues have already been addressed in some of the welcome documents on the page, but to unpack it a little further:
1.) Re: Amazon. No matter your feelings on Amazon, I think 99% of us agree that they seem to go out of their way to make things difficult for authors. Although the frustration is real, I can understand their push for review integrity -- that is why Amazon reviews for this group are highly encouraged, but Goodreads reviews are required. (We also encourage blog, Instagram, and other social media mentions.) If Amazon blocks a glowing review, that review can still be posted as "editorial."
2.) It is explicit in the documents that there will be no guarantee of positive feedback. Perhaps there should be some mechanism where a reviewer shares their thoughts privately with an author rather than publicly posting negative feedback, but I think most of us would already have enough discretion to do that.
3.) It is also posted that reviewers ought to make the even spread of reviews across all featured books a factor in choosing what to read each month. We do want the experience to be a positive one for everyone involved, and I think most authors will approach this with that in mind. However, actually assigning books would be a logistical nightmare.
4.) There is absolutely nothing to prevent an author from leaving after their feature month, although it may be worth putting something in place to keep that author from coming back. Maintaining a 10% ratio on the featured list means growth of the group would lessen wait times for those already on the list, though eventually membership would need to be closed (or split into new groups based on genre) to prevent the system from becoming unworkable. There is a mechanism in place to get "bonus" spots on the featured list, without losing one's spot in line, and authors who've already been featured may resubmit books and get back in line.
Again, this is a work in progress, so there will be kinks. The challenge question posted is meant to ensure that everyone joining is doing so in a spirit of goodwill, but we (myself and future moderators) can't/won't be able to control everything!
1.) Re: Amazon. No matter your feelings on Amazon, I think 99% of us agree that they seem to go out of their way to make things difficult for authors. Although the frustration is real, I can understand their push for review integrity -- that is why Amazon reviews for this group are highly encouraged, but Goodreads reviews are required. (We also encourage blog, Instagram, and other social media mentions.) If Amazon blocks a glowing review, that review can still be posted as "editorial."
2.) It is explicit in the documents that there will be no guarantee of positive feedback. Perhaps there should be some mechanism where a reviewer shares their thoughts privately with an author rather than publicly posting negative feedback, but I think most of us would already have enough discretion to do that.
3.) It is also posted that reviewers ought to make the even spread of reviews across all featured books a factor in choosing what to read each month. We do want the experience to be a positive one for everyone involved, and I think most authors will approach this with that in mind. However, actually assigning books would be a logistical nightmare.
4.) There is absolutely nothing to prevent an author from leaving after their feature month, although it may be worth putting something in place to keep that author from coming back. Maintaining a 10% ratio on the featured list means growth of the group would lessen wait times for those already on the list, though eventually membership would need to be closed (or split into new groups based on genre) to prevent the system from becoming unworkable. There is a mechanism in place to get "bonus" spots on the featured list, without losing one's spot in line, and authors who've already been featured may resubmit books and get back in line.
Again, this is a work in progress, so there will be kinks. The challenge question posted is meant to ensure that everyone joining is doing so in a spirit of goodwill, but we (myself and future moderators) can't/won't be able to control everything!
Nicely covered, Carolyn.
There is an inherent issue for writers of "niche" fiction. (I put that in quotes to expand the category to any fiction that is not wildly popular). These writers will either be ignored, or have reviews that begin, "This is not my usual read..." It can go up or downhill from there. My recommendation for, say writers of speculative science fiction--which I write--or other "niche" writers, is to accurately describe your book's themes and narrative style when putting it in the lists. This way, those folks who honestly either like the style, or want to try something new, will pick up the book. Others will not be horribly disappointed. Readers should always read the free excerpts before selecting a book to review. And authors--It's better to have your work ignored than hammered in print.
I am hopeful that the mods will create a format that encourages this.
And yes, please take care not to create even the appearance of "review swaps"
There is an inherent issue for writers of "niche" fiction. (I put that in quotes to expand the category to any fiction that is not wildly popular). These writers will either be ignored, or have reviews that begin, "This is not my usual read..." It can go up or downhill from there. My recommendation for, say writers of speculative science fiction--which I write--or other "niche" writers, is to accurately describe your book's themes and narrative style when putting it in the lists. This way, those folks who honestly either like the style, or want to try something new, will pick up the book. Others will not be horribly disappointed. Readers should always read the free excerpts before selecting a book to review. And authors--It's better to have your work ignored than hammered in print.
I am hopeful that the mods will create a format that encourages this.
And yes, please take care not to create even the appearance of "review swaps"
Thanks for dealing with my questions! It can be very annoying when people keep asking the same thing... or appear to be wading in with negative remarks. But the pitfalls need thrashing out. Love Charles' portrayal of the graveyard of niche writers' book reviews! Might be interested in joining up.
Great idea and well thought out. I think this would be a good group and would be very interested in joining.
What a novel idea :) I'm interested as well.
For those of you interested, here is an invite link:
https://www.goodreads.com/group/invit...
After you join, please PM the book you'd like featured, and the genre you feel is the best fit!
This thread has produced some great feedback! I'll be adding additional documents to the page tomorrow using some of the questions and ideas you've introduced - so thank you very much!
I'll also add a post listing the books we've already received (in the order in which they were received). This is NOT the feature list, but it will be a regularly updated list of the work submitted from all members. Charles mentioned reading free excerpts before choosing a book, and I think that's a smart idea - so this comprehensive list should help everyone get a jump on that if they choose to.
Again, the plan is to start October 1st, with a target of 100 members in place before we begin. I'll start posting on other boards around GR in the coming weeks to begin boosting numbers. Thanks again, everyone!
https://www.goodreads.com/group/invit...
After you join, please PM the book you'd like featured, and the genre you feel is the best fit!
This thread has produced some great feedback! I'll be adding additional documents to the page tomorrow using some of the questions and ideas you've introduced - so thank you very much!
I'll also add a post listing the books we've already received (in the order in which they were received). This is NOT the feature list, but it will be a regularly updated list of the work submitted from all members. Charles mentioned reading free excerpts before choosing a book, and I think that's a smart idea - so this comprehensive list should help everyone get a jump on that if they choose to.
Again, the plan is to start October 1st, with a target of 100 members in place before we begin. I'll start posting on other boards around GR in the coming weeks to begin boosting numbers. Thanks again, everyone!
Dominique wrote: "Also, there would have to be some agreement about what sort of reviews are posted. I've just recently done a review group round in another Goodreads group and whilst I've had generally good reviews..."I'm with you - especially on the typo question. I have had someone comb through my novel once again and found typos. My theory is that they are an alien force reproducing within the book covers. I'm getting a bit freaked out on the problem, as you can see. I need a typo tinfoil hat or something.
I've gotten so I'm comforted when I see a typo in a best seller.
Diane wrote: "Dominique wrote: "Also, there would have to be some agreement about what sort of reviews are posted. I've just recently done a review group round in another Goodreads group and whilst I've had gene..."Can you imagine what it is like typing in good old fashioned English with an American spell-checker?
Carolyn wrote: "Hey everyone - I just created a new group called "Indie Author Roundtable Reviews." I've been a part of a similarly structured group on Wattpad, and it worked beautifully-- so I believe the same ap..."Hi Carolyn, I tried to use the email function to PM you, but it rejected my attempt. I'm new at this - what should I do?
Diane - I'll send you a PM once I'm home later! I think there are a few new members that I need to contact, but I've essentially taken the last half of August off from all things GoodReads/Writing related to enjoy the end of summer. After Labor Day I'll start a big push for new members to hopefully get everything set for our planned October kick off. Stay tuned!! :)
Carolyn, I've joined the group and think your ideas are sound, especially if some of the other remarks are addressed. My only hesitation is that I am unsure that I can read and write a review in a month on top of the other reviews that I do plus my own writing. Does that mean I need to resign from the group? (I haven't suggested a book yet.)
1.) Those who join this group are committed to purchasing and reviewing ONE of the group's featured books per month. The featured list will be posted on the 1st day of each month, with reviews due back the last day of each month.
2.) The Featured List will have 1-2 books each from several different genres. Author/Reviewers will let the moderators know which book they've selected via a monthly poll, and will alert the group as a whole when their monthly review is complete.
3.) An author/reviewer who completes 10 reviews outside the normal monthly requirement will have a book of their choosing automatically placed on the featured list the following month (while maintaining their current position in the wait-list).
4.) An author/reviewer who does NOT complete a review for 2 consecutive months will be removed from the group.
5.) Upon acceptance to the group, new author/reviewers will PM the name/genre of the book they'd like to submit to the featured list. A moderator will respond with the month in which that author's book is scheduled to be featured. After being featured, a member may resubmit the book, or submit a new book to the waitlist.
6.) Authors are encouraged to plan ahead and discount their book during their feature month.
7.) In order to maintain the integrity of the group, additional moderators will be chosen. Membership will also be limited to avoid excessive wait times on the featured list.
Anyone have any thoughts on whether they think this is a good approach?? I'm all ears! :)