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The Masqueraders
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The Masqueraders August 2017 Group Read Spoilers thread
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Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂
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rated it 4 stars
Aug 01, 2017 03:56AM
For open spoilers and final conclusions!
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I thought it might be easier to put stuff about age in this thread.The Old Gentleman was 48. I haven't found a graph that goes back that far, but this one shows from 1841 to present day
http://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-has-life...
So in 1928 (when this book was written) Male life expectancy was around 50 - & GH's own Old Gentleman (her father) died at a relatively young age.
"John...looked at my Lord rather as an adult might look upon the tiresome tricks of a small child." My feelings, too, John; the old gentleman grows tedious. (But Robin is growing in my esteem and I still love Prue and her mountain.)
That is so interesting carol. Jane Austen died in 1817 at age 41 from a disease regarded as preventable in this day and Age.
I've just read another Heyer that is out of print probably because it doesn't have the sparkling wit and fun that the masquerades has. Looking forward to it
Are you talking of Addison's disease, Belinda? I was under the impression that it's still a very serious disease and didn't think it was preventable?
It's curable, anyway. And her sister and nephew James Austen-Leigh lived to ripe old ages.I thought the old gentleman was in his sixties.
I'm pretty sure it's a chronic condition and, although "treatable", not really curable or preventable. I have a friend who has it, and her life gets pretty miserable.
Belinda wrote: "I've just read another Heyer that is out of print probably because it doesn't have the sparkling wit and fun that the masquerades has. Looking forward to it"Would that be The Great Roxhythe?
& I finished this last night. I enjoyed this book more than I ever have before. It is quite a complex plot & the cross dressing probably confused me on earlier reads.
I guess I'm a female chauvinist sow because I have a problem with even a secondary male hero in dress. The scene where Robyn is pacing in his skirts makes me want to giggle.
I don't have a problem with the idea of a man being able to pull off a low cut dress so much. My son is 24, very fair skinned & has very little hair on his chest. I'm sceptical that a male could pull off the voice and arms (the latter especially with Robyn being fit and having lead an adventurous life) Off course The Old Gentleman had told them to live quietly.
But the story was action packed & a lot of fun. What an imagination GH had!
And I do remember a bit towards the beginning where Robin, I mean Kate's, arms are rather well-defined for a fragile miss.
Ok, I'll admit that my opinion has changed; I'm even a bit sad that the book is over!
Yes I've upped my rating too. If GR had been around when I was younger it would have been 3-3.5★ Now it's a 4★.
This was my umpteenth re-read. I really love John--loyal and very, very observant. I guess his loyalty is the only thing that kept him from bashing the Old Gentleman on the head at any time over the years! He was quick to recognize that Sir Anthony Fanshawe was aware and awake; that Sir Anthony noticed things. Prue soon saw that John was right; Robin pooh-poohed the very idea.
John is also my favorite.I've always loved this one, since the time I was a teen. In old age, though, I wonder how long before Robin gets tired of Letty, who seems a bit sillier every decade.
My favorite bits are Prue and the Mountain, and the gradual evolution of their relationship.
Sherwood wrote: "John is also my favorite.I've always loved this one, since the time I was a teen. In old age, though, I wonder how long before Robin gets tired of Letty, who seems a bit sillier every decade.
My..."
I love John too. & he is so important to The Old Gentleman's big scene - which is amazing (the scene I mean)
Ooops I came that close to posting something a little spoilery in the other thread! :DAbigail: am adoring Sir Anthony, though—he walks a fine line between protectiveness and treating Prue like an equal. He tests her character but also is unconditionally supportive. Definite husband material! And so reliable, for a young woman who has had to deal with an unreliable parent for so long. *Sigh*; *swoon.*
Yes for someone sick of her adventuring life, The Mountain must have been nearly irresistible!
Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: "Ooops I came that close to posting something a little spoilery in the other thread! :DAbigail: am adoring Sir Anthony, though—he walks a fine line between protectiveness and treating Prue like an..."
Can you spoil in the thread that deals with the end of the book?
Rosina wrote: "Can you spoil in the thread that deals with the end of the book? It is one of the big problems of moderating in GR that I can't (easily) move posts or put spoiler tags in them. Moderators have lobbied for it but a staff member (Jaclyn) has said moderators are unlikely to ever be given these powers.
I'll c& p Abigail's comment & message her.
Abigail:I am adoring Sir Anthony, though—he walks a fine line between protectiveness and treating Prue like an equal. He tests her character but also is unconditionally supportive. Definite husband material! And so reliable, for a young woman who has had to deal with an unreliable parent for so long. *Sigh*; *swoon.* Rosina's reply;The barn scene is one of the most romantic (and understated) scene that I've read. I dread to think of how it would be handled in a modern version.
(had to move your reply as you quoted Abigail)
Over on the Convenient Marriage thread, someone commented that at this point in her career GH likes to write swordfights. There are several good ones in this book!
Margaret wrote: "Over on the Convenient Marriage thread, someone commented that at this point in her career GH likes to write swordfights. There are several good ones in this book!"Yes, the planning & detail in them (the swordfight) is so amazing.
Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: "Rosina's reply:The barn scene is one of the most romantic (and understated) scene that I've read. "Oh, the barn scene!! Sir Anthony pacing like a sentry on duty while Prue sleeps. Be still my heart!!
Barb in Maryland wrote: "Oh, the barn scene!! Sir Anthony pacing like a sentry on duty wh..."
My cover
added to my confusion when I first read it. Note that Prue is in woman's garb. It would have been so easy to have the jacket cover Prue's clothes.
But do they get it (the special treatment in investigation, I mean - trial by their peers was a right for peers, after all)?Rosina:I am always rather more worried about why, if the authorities are looking for a young man, possibly accompanied by his sister, disguising yourselves as a young man accompanied by his sister would be a sensible step to take! Surely the authorities weren't that keen on searching specifically for Robin, rather than Jacobites in general, in which case the Merriotts are just as likely to be suspect as the Tremaynes.
I've moved your comment to the spoilers thread Rosina as these are important plot points I think. & Tremayne turns out to be their real name. :)
Admittedly working backwards from the strategy we see Prue and Robin using, I tend to think that the authorities in question are looking for a young man of Robin's description (for whom they have the name "Robin Lacey") and have no idea about the sister (we're told that Prue was not directly involved in the fighting). Therefore Robin as Robin has to disappear and become "Kate"; but since a young woman can't travel on her own, and two young women traveling without a male escort isn't a significant improvement, Prue becomes "Peter" -- who doesn't match the description of Robin. It probably isn't a perfect solution, but I'm at a loss to come up with a better one that wouldn't scuttle the plot.
Well I have enjoyed re-reading The Masqueraders although I really struggled with the basic plot device. Like several others, I could just not buy into it at all for all the reasons that others have already explained. However, I put my scepticism and disbelief into the corner and just read it for the fast paced, humorous and idiosyncratic events which played out just as one would expect in a GH story. I found the Robin/Letty romance tedious but I loved the relationship between Prue and Tony. Markham was a caricature villain and as such became utterly boring. As she grew older, GH became much better at developing her villains. I do like a villain who has a certain something to explain why the heroine might actually like him! I did not ike the Old Gentleman:- and I could not understand why they would refer to their father in that way. Had he been the kind of respectable, - old before his time- type of father - perhaps. But with his temperament and only 48!! Even in the mid 18th century, he would not have been seen as an old gentleman. I'm afraid I loathed him. I did not find him at all funny. He was a selfish, arrogant and utterly self-adoring chap lacking even the redeeming feature of self awareness. All the loose ends were brought together and neatly tied off and I was left imagining a happy life for Tony and Prue. This will never be in my top 10 but it was so nice to revisit a book last read 50 odd years ago - and discover I could enjoy it.
Susan wrote, "I did not find [the Old Gentleman] at all funny. He was a selfish, arrogant and utterly self-adoring chap lacking even the redeeming feature of self awareness."Could it be his self-centered predictability that makes him funny? Can you imagine Prue and Robin exchanging subtle, wry looks that say, "Oh, no! He's at it again!"?
MaryC wrote: "Susan wrote, "I did not find [the Old Gentleman] at all funny. He was a selfish, arrogant and utterly self-adoring chap lacking even the redeeming feature of self awareness."Could it be his self-..."
I can absolutely see that would have been GH's intention:- that we would be able to empathise with them; - but it just does not work for me I'm afraid. His ridiculous, self-congratulatory pronouncements end up as simple pomposity - never an attractive trait in my eyes.
I finished last night, and once again I loved the way it made me feel, even despite the improbabilities enumerated by others above. The sticking point for me is how nobody recognizes Robin and Prue when they come out of their disguises. But I adore the Mountain, his steadfastness that isn’t cloying, and I like Prue’s ruthful focus on the ethics of the situations she finds herself in. Her brother and father don’t trouble their heads about ethics, which makes it all the more remarkable the extent to which she does.
I enjoyed this one more than my initial reads. I only had one real issue.The old man was thoroughly annoying. Until the part with Markum, when he basically engineers the murder, (and by his son!) for his own comfort. Then he completely showed himself as a dangerous narcissist who believed:
1 that his own actions were always true and proper, no matter who they hurt or inconvenienced
2 that other people were just there to do his bidding, or be manipulated by him
I don't envy Robin and Prue's upbringing.
I opted out this month but just checked in to see how ye were all getting on. From my what I've read in the comments everyone is enjoying it. I'll definitely have to read it again at some stage.
Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: "It is one of the big problems of moderating in GR that I can't (easily) move posts or put spoiler tags in them. Mod..."Oh, oh! I think I've been messing up the threads! Forgive me, Carol. I've put some character discussions (not spoilery, I hope) and lots of pictures and historical links in both chapter threads. Let me know if you want me to copy/move them to this thread. Sorry, I got carried away since I found I liked this much more the second time around.
Hana wrote: "Oh, oh! I think I've been messing up the thr..."
No, I think they are fine in the second thread as we already know the Merriotts are the Laceys in disguise.
& I love the pictures. :)
I agree that the story does get better with rereading. What a wonderful story to escape into for a few days of dashing and romance.
Abigail wrote: "Finished last night; my review here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."Great review Abigail and masterfully done without revealing the plot twist!
Thanks, Susan! I always try not to spoil in my reviews, though sometimes it’s hard to convey the story without giving something away—in this case especially. I didn’t see my way clear even to mentioning the Old Gentleman, because that would tell too much; and the nature of the masquerade, even though it’s revealed very early, would deprive a first-time reader of the whole process of confusion and discovery.
Well I finished The Masqueraders this morning. I'm sticking with my original 3 stars - I liked but didn't love it. Obviously I'm a big Heyer fan or I wouldn't have joined this group, but this reread confirmed this isn't a fav of mine. It's quite a few years since I've read it, and I had pretty much forgotten what happened, so it was all a fresh rediscovery, but......Liked:
Prue and Anthony together - a lovely couple. Their kiss near the end was very sweet.
The plot - neatly done (as usual). Slightly ridiculous, but still done with Heyer's light touch.
The final establishment of the Old Gentleman's credentials as Lord Tremaine. That section was nicely done.
Didn't like:
The formality and old-fashioned vibe of the language used in the writing. It was a bit too much for me.
The Old Gentleman - I found him just too conceited. I lost patience with his manipulations and selfishness.
Overall, about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through, I started to find the whole thing a bit tedious actually. But it did pick up again towards the end.
I'm still a forever Heyer fan, but I may not bother with this one again.
Jan130 wrote: "Well I finished The Masqueraders this morning. I'm sticking with my original 3 stars - I liked but didn't love it. Obviously I'm a big Heyer fan or I wouldn't have joined this group, but this rerea..."Oh yes, The Old Gentleman's scene was outstanding!
It is one that like The Foundling & A Civil Contract has much improved for me. But everyone is different. :)
Carol ♔Type, Oh Queen!♕ wrote: "It is one that like The Foundling & A Civil Contract has much improved for me. But everyone is different. :) "Yes, exactly. Our differences make life fun and interesting! :) Imagine how boring the world would be if we all liked and disliked the same things. Although I didn't actually dislike the book, it's just not my fav Heyer.
Jan 130 wrote:Our differences make life fun and interesting! :) Imagine how boring the world would be if we all liked and disliked the same things.
This reminds me of a quote from Mrs. Appleyard's Year:
'Suppose what everyone -- except Mrs Appleyard -- decided to like was tripe!'
I met Louise Andrews Kent's Mrs. Appleyard when I was in college and have loved her ever since. The book was published in 1941 and I think a lot of you would enjoy her too. The author's husband had a home in Vermont though they lived mostly in Boston and last year I finally got to Kent Corner. There is not much left of the village but the old tavern, now empty but occasionally used for shows of some sort. At least I can cross this off my bucket list!
I remember a Christmas story, Mr. Appleyard's Ghost, I think? Wonder if it would be the same author...
Jacquie wrote: "Jan 130 wrote:This reminds me of a quote from Mrs. Appleyard's Year:
'Suppose what everyone -- except Mrs Appleyard -- decided to like was tripe!'
I read this literally. But I assume Mrs Appleyard wasn't wondering about people developing a taste for offal.
Hahaha! Best chuckle of the day so far!
Mrs. Kent might have disliked tripe but she spent WW I developing recipes that could be made with the restricted ingredients available. She writes of trying to promote whale flesh which was not rationed in her biography. There is a good entry about her in Wikipedia.
I don't know how she's managed to escape my notice all these years, sounds interesting!
Hmmm, Final conclusions. This is a favorite of mine, because I adore Sir Anthony. Y'all know I love a nice guy hero, and he is as nice as they come. Robin and Letty -- meh. Tony and Prudence -- I just love them.I think they get away with their masquerade as long as they do, because of the simple truth that people see what they expect to see. Why would you examine a lovely young lady's arm muscles? Or think that a handsome young gentleman is not a gentleman at all? I have to wonder if Tony cultivates "Peter" because he suspects. Or does he suspect because he spends more time with him?
Whatever the reason, Prudence finally comes up against someone who is as smart, if not smarter, than she is. And although he understandably wants to immediately take her out of an extremely risky situation, he respects her determination to see the game through. He loves her courage and her loyalty, and I love that about him.
Belinda wrote: "That is so interesting carol. Jane Austen died in 1817 at age 41 from a disease regarded as preventable in this day and Age."Which illness did you hear she died of? I was at her memorial service at Winchester Cathedral commemorating the 200th anniversary of her death. They offered various theories, but nothing conclusive. It is sad that every other member of her family lived into his or her seventies or eighties. Only Jane died young in this otherwise her long-lived family.
The Addison’s disease cause of death is pretty widely dismissed nowadays. There’s a really interesting theory in the recent novel The Jane Austen Project—worth a read!
Georgette Heyer Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
The Jane Austen Project (other topics)The Jane Austen Project (other topics)
The Jane Austen Project (other topics)
The Masqueraders (other topics)
