The Case of the Gilded Fly - SPOILER thread

[Judy]

This is the spoiler thread for The Case of the Gilded Fly. Spoilers can be freely posted here as it is assumed that anyone reading this thread has finished the book.

[Judy]

This is definitely one of the Golden Age books where everyone hates the victim.

I know it's a lighthearted mystery, and I did enjoy it... but it is a bit much when nearly everyone seems to be perfectly happy about Yseut being killed just because she is sarcastic and has a lot of affairs (seems as if this is all down to her and the men are putty in her hands!)

Even Fen seems to think this is really a lesser kind of murder because nobody liked the victim and he quite likes most of the possible killers.

[Susan]

I read this book with a previous reading group and some people objected strongly to the criticism of the victim. I found it more shocking the first time I read it, but yes, it does seem very negative indeed. Even her sister is relived she is dead - and has a motive, as she inherits.

[Judy]

Susan wrote: "I read this book with a previous reading group and some people objected strongly to the criticism of the victim. I found it more shocking the first time I read it, but yes, it does seem very negati..."

That's interesting about the other reading group, Susan. I think in a way I'm finding it more shocking now that I've finished the book - while I was reading it there were always so many other things about the characters and Crispin's style to enjoy, but really the attitude to the victim is pretty grim. Even the man who is supposed to be in love with her seems fairly pleased when she is killed.

[Susan]

I think, these days, our reaction is to have sympathy with the victim - but possibly, when the book was written, readers would have felt differently. I know we say our press is judgmental, but certainly there was a shocking amount of 'blame' put on victims in the past.

[Sandy]

I almost felt sorry for Yseut (does any one know where that name came from?) when even her sister didn't care that she died.

From what I remember, part of Fen's reluctance to name the murderer was that he, Fen, would be eliminating any future artistic output.

[Sandy]

One of my annoyances with the book was Fen repeatedly telling Nigel that he, and thus the reader, should know who done it. I don't like being made to feel stupid.

And I thought the explanation was fantastical enough to warrant NOT figuring it out.

[Judy]

Sandy wrote: "One of my annoyances with the book was Fen repeatedly telling Nigel that he, and thus the reader, should know who done it. I don't like being made to feel stupid.

And I thought the explanation was..."

I found this a bit annoying too - but it's quite a good twist that in the end Fen ends up feeling as if he is the stupid one for holding back his deductions and letting someone else get killed.

I actually did wonder about whether the loo could be a fake alibi and whether the shot they heard was the right one (only because this has also happened in other books) - but I was also busy suspecting everyone else and noticing red herrings, so I didn't stick to a theory about the culprit. And I didn't really understand the explanation about the blackmail.

[Susan]

Yseult is a variation, I would imagine, of the Irish/Celtic name Yseult - pronounced ee-solt and often spelt with an I, rather than a Y.

MEANING: All these variations refer to the famous Irish woman bethrothed to King Mark of Cornwall who fell in love with his nephew Tristan when they drank a love potion by mistake.

[Judy]

Susan wrote: "Yseult is a variation, I would imagine, of the Irish/Celtic name Yseult - pronounced ee-solt and often spelt with an I, rather than a Y.

MEANING: All these variations refer to the famous Irish wom..."

Yes, I believe it is mentioned that her father was fascinated by the Tristan legends and that's also where he got the name Helen for her sister. I'm slightly puzzled by the pronunciation of Yseut though as it doesn't have the 'l' in my edition anyway, and it's hard to say it without...

[Leslie]

I liked this better this time around but I found Fen's repeatedly remarking that he knew who did it and how extremely irritating (because I was like Nigel, unable to figure it out!).

[Susan]

Me too, Leslie :)

[Judy]

I think Fen seems very complete as a character even in this first book - he is instantly there, with his whole witty presence, and all the quotations from the Alice books.

But I agree with you, Susan and Leslie, it is definitely a pain that he keeps saying how easy the mystery was to solve - possibly supposed to be a pain, since it all backfires on him, but I'm hoping he doesn't do this in later books.

[Jill]

I must admit I did guess the murderer but , like Fen , I couldn't work out the how or why. I don't think I could have got the lay-out of the building properly.
I liked the fact we were misled by the old, deaf tutor , with his story of ghosts

[Abigail]

Finished a couple of days ago but didn’t have a chance to comment till now. Review here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

The identity of the murderer made perfect sense to me; I often get frustrated when it turns out to be someone totally unexpected, with motives that stretch credulity. I thought the ending was a bit too melodramatic, but enjoyed the read enormously nonetheless.

[Susan]

Great review, Abigail. I enjoyed it enormously too. I must get around to reading all the Fen books.

[Sandy]

Abigail wrote: "Finished a couple of days ago but didn’t have a chance to comment till now. Review here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

The identity of the murderer made perfect sense to me; I o..."

I thought the motive, involving blackmail for a crime unconnected to the rest of the book, was a stretch. I found the murderer very credible however; just wished for a better motive.

I love the series and have read several.

[Abigail]

I agree with you on the motive, Sandy! And thanks for the kind words, Susan.

[Judy]

What did anyone think of the explanation of the gilded fly ring? I found this a bit unlikely but enjoyed the fact that it was another literary reference in a book that's so crammed with them!

[Judy]

Great review, Abigail, and I particularly liked your point about the similarity of the relations between the sexes in this book and in Mad Men.

[Jan C]

I finished it this afternoon.

I wavered on the culprit, but he was my first guess. Even with the map I could not have figured out how it was done.

My biggest gripe was Fen ("Mr. Know-It-All") not knowing the etymology of "horns of a dilemma". He is just the kind of person who would have known and probably would have railed at Mrs. Fen for 15-20 minutes about it.

[Wend]

Abigail wrote: "Finished a couple of days ago but didn’t have a chance to comment till now. Review here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

The identity of the murderer made perfect sense to me; I o..."

Lovely review Abigail. Really enjoyed the book, we do live in very different times now.

[Abigail]

Thanks for the orchid, Wend!

[Suki]

I went into this book really wanting and expecting to like it, but it took me a while to warm up to it. I felt somewhat out of my depth at first; I have no knowledge of Oxford, and the only classics I've read that are older than the 1700s are Shakespeare. I started to enjoy the book after about the first third: there were some really funny moments, like Fen's wife "committing suicide", and the Inspector being shocked at the casual sexuality of some of the suspects. I agree that Fen was very annoying with his harping on about how easy the murder was to solve given the evidence-- I really had no clue who would be unmasked at the end; I followed all the herrings and suspected almost everyone in turn. It was kind of sad that out of three proposals of marriage, only one would come to pass. I had to wonder if Nigel and Helen stayed together and had a happy marriage-- they certainly didn't know each other for long before committing! Given some of the comments on the non-spoiler thread, I think I will seek out more books in the series.

[Judy]

Good point about the proposals, Suki. I wonder if Nigel and Helen will turn up in any of the subsequent books.

[Sandy]

I've read five and I don't remember Nigel reappearing ... but I often miss stuff.

Realistically I don't have a lot of hope for their relationship. Not only did they not know each other well, but she had a career boost that could take her on the road and move her up into higher social circles. Not many "stars" remain married to their first partner. But it is fiction and once the author leaves the characters I feel I can arrange their lives however I see fit.

[Susan]

The number of relationships - both sexual and otherwise - were presumably quite shocking at the time and, I would imagine, down to wartime. It is odd, because, although they mention the blackout, soldiers in pubs, etc. Oxford seemed to escape much of the bombing and this is rumoured to be because Hitler had a fondness for the city!

https://www.oxford-royale.co.uk/artic...

[Susan]

The article link above is interesting on many points, but I must admit that I didn't know Oxfam came out of Oxford during the war, although, obviously it should have been obvious due to the name...

[Judy]

Very interesting article, Susan - I didn't remember about Oxfam either, though I think I may have heard a mention of how it was formed in the past. Thank you for posting this.