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An Unsuitable Job for a Woman
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August 2017 group read: An Unsuitable Job for a Woman, by P.D. James
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I read some Adam Dalgliesh's novels but none with this detective.
I..."
It's very different from Dalgliesh -- I think more readable, actually.
I'm 66 pages in and it's still Chapter 2!! How things have changed. :) This book feels so historical, which I guess it is, being from the 70's - but it seems a much older era than that. Quaint and intense at the same time. She's such a good writer. Atmospheric and often quietly brutal.
Alexandra wrote: "I'm 66 pages in and it's still Chapter 2!! How things have changed. :) This book feels so historical, which I guess it is, being from the 70's - but it seems a much older era than that. Quaint and ..."Alexandra wrote: "I'm 66 pages in and it's still Chapter 2!! How things have changed. :) This book feels so historical, which I guess it is, being from the 70's - but it seems a much older era than that. Quaint and ..."
I totally agree. I had to keep reminding myself that this was 1972, NOT 1932! (I'm finished with the book. Felt it was quite drawn out in many parts, but there's a nice twist in it.)
Read this book at the beginning of the week. Thought that it started out well, died in the middle and left some threads hanging at the end. I agree with Alexandra about the writing style being more 1930 than 1972, especially as I remember that time.
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Nancy wrote: "Question: have you read a lot of 1930s crime novels? I have, and I'm not getting that vibe from this book."I'm not a fan of historical fiction...maybe I should have stated that in my opinion, the character of Cordelia Gray seems very old fashioned (except for her wanting to be a private investigator).
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I'm not a fan of historical fiction...maybe I should have stated that in m..."
I understand what you mean now. But it wasn't written as historical fiction. Historical fiction is looking back on and writing about an older period, for example, the Marcus Didius Falco books set in ancient Rome by Lindsey Davis would be considered historical fiction. This book is set in the year it was published, so it would be more like contemporary fiction. So you're not a fan of older crime novels, I think is what you mean to say.
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Nancy wrote: "It's a little tough sometimes to put yourself in the mindset of the time a book was written, so in the context of the 1970s, Cordelia seems pretty independent to me. Also, considering how she'd had..."Agree Nancy, in fact I had to keep reminding myself it wasn't set in perhaps the 1980s as Codelia seems more of an 80's girl to me!
I managed to find a paper copy of this second hand so I'm now reading that ( having listened to the audio book back in April) Have to say I'm liking it better this time, not sure if that because it's the second read, but its interesting how the voice of a person reading the audio sets the 'tone' of a book. What I didn't notice from the audio was how long some of the paragraphs are!
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Well, that's P.D. James for you. This book is mild compared to the writing in some of the Dalgliesh novels!
Nancy wrote " Well, that's PD James for you. This book is mild compared to ...the Dalgliesh novels! ."I haven't read any other PDJames yet ( but certainly intend to).In what way do you mean 'mild'?
Will certainly be interesting to compare with Dalgleish - I'm not sure about him from his brief apearances in this one.
Nancy wrote: "It's a little tough sometimes to put yourself in the mindset of the time a book was written, so in the context of the 1970s, Cordelia seems pretty independent to me. Also, considering how she'd had..."
I think Cordelia is a very well-developed character - the author does a good job of slipping in little parentheses about her childhood, which really helps us to understand and empathize with her.
As you note, she definitely was a child of a different time - a child of the fifties, and the author, again, does a very good job of portraying that time period, because of course she wrote in period.
To me, the best thing about the story is the treatment of Cordelia's character.
I think Cordelia is a very well-developed character - the author does a good job of slipping in little parentheses about her childhood, which really helps us to understand and empathize with her.
As you note, she definitely was a child of a different time - a child of the fifties, and the author, again, does a very good job of portraying that time period, because of course she wrote in period.
To me, the best thing about the story is the treatment of Cordelia's character.
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I haven't read any other PDJames yet ( but certainly intend to).In what way do you mean 'mild..."
I mean that the Dalgliesh novels can get wordy. It's much less so here in this book.
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I agree. I felt sorry for her but on the other hand, she wouldn't be who she is without such a rough childhood.
Nancy wrote: "Carolyn wrote: "Nancy wrote " Well, that's PD James for you. This book is mild compared to ...the Dalgliesh novels! ."I haven't read any other PDJames yet ( but certainly intend to).In what way d..."
Oh I see! I'm not sure I could manage more 'wordy' than this! Though I am also currently reading ] A Tale of Two Cities so perhaps it's just the combined effect! Dickens never used 1 word when 5 would do!
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I haven't read any other PDJames yet ( but certainly intend to)..."
That's the style of the period -- I've been reading a LOT of Victorian fiction and it can often be like trying to wade through Jello.
Long time lurker & first time poster! Just finished the book & think Cordelia was very suited to the job! I liked the character of Cordelia but initially found her interactions & dialogue with the other characters a little stiff .. perhaps due to the style of the writing. I also found it difficult to place the timing in the early 70s .. for me the storyline came across as relating to an earlier period. The 'why' was interesting. Overall enjoyed & will check out the second book about her.
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I'm not having the issue of placing the book timewise, but it's probably because I'm used to settling myself in time periods from the 18th century onward.
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Nancy wrote: "Carolyn wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Carolyn wrote: "Nancy wrote " Well, that's PD James for you. This book is mild compared to ...the Dalgliesh novels! ."I haven't read any other PDJames yet ( but cert..."
I have to defend Dickens here. He might use a lot of words, but the words and sentence structure is beautiful and a pleasure in themselves. Also the humour or societal criticism is often in the way he phrases sentences or the words he uses. Moreover, you have to remember his novels were first published as chapters in his magazines and therefore people would have expected each to be a full story in itself.
This was my first foray into P D James except for Death Comes to Pemberley, which I didn't finish. I thought it was well written but I agree that the overall feel was of an earlier time than the 1970s (as I remember them). There were enough twists and turns to make for a suspenseful read and also enough clues to allow me, as the reader, to feel like a pretty successful sleuth myself. The ending was a bit disappointing for me - too many convenient deaths. At first I thought Cordelia's decisions at the end were not in keeping with here character, but upon reflection, I changed my mind about that. I have decided the Dalgliesh series a go.
Gisela wrote: "Nancy wrote...Carolyn wrote..."I have to defend Dickens here. He might use a lot of words, but the words and sentence structure is beautiful and a pleasure in themselves. Also the humour ..."
It wasn't a criticism of Dickens, I'm a big fan, and agree with everything you said about him. I think he is long winded in a good way!
(This is getting a bit OT, but I always remember at school many years ago (!) we were supposed to be studying Great Expectations but everyone else hated it so much the teacher changed to another book. I read and studied it in my own time anyway. The Dickens shaped hole in my 'to read' pile is far to large, but I'm currently working on it, starting with A Tale of Two Cities)
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I haven't read any other PDJames ..."
I'm a huge Dickens fan myself.
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I think you'll enjoy Dalgliesh, Donna.
I never guessed the ending on this one -- did you?? (Spoiler-free, of course.)
No I didn't Nancy. Quite a twist I thought! For the record, I have never read Dickens - something that I consider a huge blight on my otherwise pretty substantial reading record. I have the complete works on my Kindle for the moment when the mood strikes.
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For the record, I have never read Dickens - something that I consider a huge blight on my otherwise pretty substantial reading record. I have the compl..."
Bleak House is good, and I love Great Expectations.
Nancy wrote: "Donna wrote: "No I didn't Nancy. Quite a twist I thought! For the record, I have never read Dickens - something that I consider a huge blight on my otherwise pretty substantial reading record. I ..."
My favourite Dickens by far is Nicolas Nickelby, followed by A tale of two cities and for laughs The Pickwick Papers.
Finally received a copy of Unsuitable Job for a Women from the Library. I had one when I read it first years ago and clearly lent it to someone, only to never see it again. Annoying.
I like that living isolated, out of the 'normal' world, is made natural and lovely in this book. Metaphorically it may be understood as how being 'different' does not have to be sad. The only truly awful character is cousin Charles, and one of my only moments of disbelief came when Constance seemed actually to be listening to him.
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For the record, I have never read Dickens - something that I consider a huge blight on my otherwise pretty substantial read..."
I rarely lend books any more for that exact reason. So rude!
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Great observation, Laura!!
Oh dear, how embarrassing - this comment was meant to appear on the *other* book of the month, whose author *also* begins with Ja. I'll copy it over there where the reference to Cousin Charles won't look so odd!
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Nancy wrote: "Well, it actually applies here a bit as well."Do you mean Cordelia's carrying on the agency? moving into Mark's cottage? She is not entirely sympathetic but interesting. I remember reading this in 1972 and identifying with her, but now I don't.
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Nancy wrote: "Well, actually I was referring to Mark here."Mark was to me quite obscure and I found it hard to believe so many people visited him on that one key night. He seemed like a cipher.
I finished this book this morning. I was so excited to finally read a P.D. James, I've been wanting to read one of her books for ages and never have. About this book? I'm ambivalent. On one hand I found the beginning and middle excruciating slow. However, I realized this was a new character that needed to be establish for the reader, so okay. I assumed (yes, yes, I know, lol) due to the amount of time spent in the novel establishing the character that this was going to be a series with numerous books. I was shocked to find out there were only two Cordelia Gray novels, so I was put off a bit by all the background information.
That said, once the action started it was great. Multiple twists and turns, which I like. When I guessed whodunit, I was wrong, but I like that too.
All in all I gave the book 3 starts, feeling that the beginning/middle dragged down the rating I would have gave the ending. I'm a little disappointed with the being my first P.D. James after all the positive I've heard about her over the years.
No spoilers intentionally... I'll add more when other folks have done more reading or have finished.
^ hi gem I am a bit of a fan for p d James and can tell you now please please don't be put off by her cordilia grey novels ( I won't say series as well as you can see are only two) I would highly recommend her Adam Dalgliesh series which I love... also there are more of 😜 so her first novel I would suggest you to read is cover her face as that introduces you to the character it's not what I would call my favourite that would be death in holy orders but it gives you a flavour of what's to come. Seriously don't give up on pd just yet lol
Zoe wrote: "^ hi gem I am a bit of a fan for p d James and can tell you now please please don't be put off by her cordilia grey novels ( I won't say series as well as you can see are only two) I would highly r..."I won't, I promise. When I realized there were only two books in the series, I figured there might have been a reason why. I don't image she has the reputation she does based on this book. The same thing happened for me when I read Patricia Cornwell's Andy Brazil series. I adore Cornwell and that series was awful.
I will definitely give P.D. James another read.
Thank you for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it.
It's ok I think she was going to go back to the series but as with life she left it too long.
Reading through the discussion compelled me to dig out a copy at the library, which I'm just getting into.In 2017, it DOES read like something from another era. If folks don't think it sounds like the 1970s, I wonder if that could be because this is England in the 1970s, not the US. For an American, it seemed a different world. (I awoke my first morning in 1966, in a place much like the book's setting, to discover I had a servant. When she saw I'd made my bed, she said very pointedly, "Sir, that's my job." Bus conductors earned 12-14 Pounds a week [$33.60-39.20}. My bedsitter had no central heating--as in this book, you fed shillings into a meter for the gas heater [by 1972 a 5P coin]. Some friends still had coal fires in their rooms--and chamber pots under the bed! [They never let their servant wash their tea things, for fear of where she might rinse them.]) I remember thinking it seemed akin to the 19th century, with life moving at a very different, more leisurely pace. So my guess is that James is true to 1972--but an English 1972.
As folks have observed, the title is interesting for 1972, too, and it's also interesting that Cordelia only got one more book (whereas Dalgliesh got another TEN after '72). There's been discussion on this site (or another?) about James's choice of "P.D." instead of "Phyllis Dorothy." The Author's Note begins "A crime novelist, by virtue of his craft. . . " Could James's title also be suggesting that writing this sort of "lady detective" crime novel (the sort that doesn't make you smile at witty repartee alla Dorothy Sayers, the sort that is rather dark for readers' expectations of female authors of detective fiction in 1972) is a problematic undertaking? It's interesting James waited a decade to revive Cordelia (a character name most familiar from the poor thing in King Lear--or perhaps these days, Buffy, the Vampire Slayer) and then apparently dropped her like a hot brick. Can anybody think of other female British crime novelists writing this sort of book, with this sort of crime fighter at this period?
I read James in the late 60s and 70s not as a 'crime novelist' but as a novelist. The world she portrayed was like that portrayed by Iris Murdoch and Muriel Spark, to name two obvious women who easily incorporated darkness and 'crime' into novels not lumbered with a genre-tag. I also read Josephine Tey, Ruth Rendell and Ngaio Marsh in those years, with similar feelings about women written as strong characters.Using one's first two initials is a rather old convention for British writers, men and women both - there's a raft of these.
Personally I don't think there should be much made about why she didn't use her full name for her books, all I can suggest is that p d James is quicker and easier on the tongue and to remember than Phylis Dorothy lol or maybe she didn't like her name either way her stories speak for themselves and yes Cordelia grey only gets two books but I think that's intriguing rather than disappointing
I read this in paperback , probably in the '70s, also read the secpnd one in hardcover when it came out, so I must have liked this one. But the discussion has intrigued me so I am on the waiting list on OverDrive for the audio.Having been a child of the '50s, most of us were fairly independent. Some more so than others. I don't recall whether I identified with her or not at this point.
Dickens is also a big hole in my reading, other than A Tale of Two Cities which we read in school. I do have Oliver Twist, Great Expectations and Bleak House sitting on my shelves (Ulysses sat on my shelf for a while, too, before I read it). I also have his American Notes For General Circulation on my Kindle.
First time joining the monthly read, so thanks for two novels I would have never picked myself.Really enjoyed reading this one, with flourish of English language, it was a real treat. So many words I hadn't understood and had to rely on the kindle dictionary lookup! Makes a refreshing change after coming from some Jack Reacher novels. Who only uses 5 words. Per sentence. At most. Probably.
The story was good enough to keep me interested but didn't think it was anything *too* special. The ending I thought might have tailed on a tad too long, which is saying something for what is definitely a short book these days. I think like the other book, that perhaps these days with murder and crime on telly at all hours, there wasn't too much special about it. It was definitely enough to keep me interested though and I thought i flowed enough from piece to piece to keep me interested in the characters and the case.
Good stuff, good stuff. Being a Brit, loved the truly British references too (view spoiler)
Shame she didn't write some prequels with Bernie and Cordelia, that would have been an interesting read too.
Donna wrote: "This was my first foray into P D James except for Death Comes to Pemberley, which I didn't finish. I thought it was well written but I agree that the overall feel was of an earlier ..."
I definitely agree about the number of convenient deaths. The way I see it, every plot has a problem and a solution; the cheap ones count on a series of unlikely coincidences to win out. I thought the crime itself was very well thought out by the author, but the number of coincidental deaths left a bad taste. The author more or less admitted it, I thought, with Dalgleish's musings at the end.
I definitely agree about the number of convenient deaths. The way I see it, every plot has a problem and a solution; the cheap ones count on a series of unlikely coincidences to win out. I thought the crime itself was very well thought out by the author, but the number of coincidental deaths left a bad taste. The author more or less admitted it, I thought, with Dalgleish's musings at the end.
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See you tomorrow.
Rian wrote: "I thought it was well written but I agree that the overall feel was ..."The whole encounter between Cordelia and Dalgliesh struck me as false. That he had figured out absolutely everything from conversations with every possible source, that he 'knew it all', every detail, without her giving an inch. I didn't believe it.
Laura wrote: "The whole encounter between Cordelia and Dalgliesh struck me as false. ..."
I didn't get quite that far - I think the author had an interest in maintaining what was a successful character in Dalgleish. As far as knowing everything, Cordelia herself made a lot of successive correct guesses and deduced everything correctly in her turn, and Dalgleish had obviously done his homework.
I don't mind detectives being smarter than me, and spotting details that I wouldn't, and drawing correct conclusions from small (think Sherlock Holmes). What I dislike are unrealistic improbabilities, and there's too many in this particular book.
I didn't get quite that far - I think the author had an interest in maintaining what was a successful character in Dalgleish. As far as knowing everything, Cordelia herself made a lot of successive correct guesses and deduced everything correctly in her turn, and Dalgleish had obviously done his homework.
I don't mind detectives being smarter than me, and spotting details that I wouldn't, and drawing correct conclusions from small (think Sherlock Holmes). What I dislike are unrealistic improbabilities, and there's too many in this particular book.
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Books mentioned in this topic
The Skull Beneath the Skin (other topics)Innocent Blood (other topics)
The Skull Beneath the Skin (other topics)
The Cuckoo's Calling (other topics)
An Unsuitable Job for a Woman (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Robert Galbraith (other topics)Robert Galbraith (other topics)
P.D. James (other topics)
J.K. Rowling (other topics)
I read some Adam Dalgliesh's novels but none with this detective.
I am thrilled to start reading it.