Song of Ice and Fire series Read ALong! discussion
Chapters 1-10 discussion!
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The amazing thing about re-reading is being able to watch the dominos fall. On the first read, you don't even know they're dominos at all!
one thing i will say i am on chapter four and the tv show does stay very true to the book
having seen the TV show it helps to know who is who and how the characters are related.
Mod
i can picture the scenes that match to the book i would say spot on for ned catlyn and daenerys
I do see the actors now, but to be honest, I think the casting was so spot on in the first place, especially Sean Bean.
Prologue:the story starts out with a mystery. Who are these people, what are they tracking or what is their mission. Then it goes dark and spooky and by the end most of the guys in the chapter are dead. The chapter does good at drawing you in and peaking your interest. A lot of fantasy or Sci Fi books start out with a prolog that enters on non story characters so i wasn't put off and kind of expected the real characters to find out what happened.
Paul.
Bran IIt was interesting that the one survivor from the Prolog makes an appearance. then "off with his head". You would think that they would have a bit of grace and mercy. But the north is a harsh place and 'ain't nobody got time for that.'
I have owned the books for several years but I have been putting off reading them. But i had read internet spoilers and I have been watching all the HBO shows. I will try my best to keep my comments to current book chapters.
I knew the Stark kids in the books were younger than the HBO series portrayed but i didn't know just how much younger the kids in the story were. On the HBO series Rob and Jon look to be early 20's but in the book they are mid to late teens. and they younger kids are 7 or 9 and 11 with the youngest being 5 or 6.
It is fun when they find the wolf pups. Boy does it suck to be a bastard child. It seems like Jon is the public punching bag and they never let up. If i were him i would have left o be on my own a long time ago. If you know had read the books or seen the TV show you can see early foreshadowing and a few hints. These are the kind of hints that you would never catch onto your first read through.
Paul.
Catelyn I You learn that big problems are going on with the Nights Watch. several people have deserted and the guard doesn't really have enough men to do the job. This can't be a good thing at all.
We learn about Catelyn's brother in law being murdered. We get a letter blaming the Lannisters. The very people who are coming with the king.
We learn that Ned has a brother who is serving on the wall and that he had an older brother who was to have married Caelyn. So you figure out it was a political marriage, and that isn't surprising giving the time period of the story.
We are introduced to one or two new characters each chapter. We get enough time to figure out who they are and a bit of history.
Overall I didn't get a warm and fuzzy feeling about Catelyn.
Paul
Daenerya IWow only 13. You kind of get the feeling that her and her older brother have been doing it but i don't think they have. He is definitely a huge ass. And you figure out that all he has told Daenerya about them is wrong. slaves with collars of gold and all sorts of stuff when in reality they are barbarians. Life with them would not be a fun life at all.
You find out that the two Targaryens hare basically broke and homeless. I don't really know why anyone would give them the time of day. it would be very hard to get your kingdome back without any kind of army of your own. And I don't know why you would loan them an army because i wouldn't be sure they would win and reward you.
Paul.
Eddard IThe king is kind of rude to his wife. After all that travel the first thing he wants to do is visit the tomb of Ned's dead sister. Roberts one true love in life. You might think that, you might even feel that. But you should never, ever say it or make your spouse believe it. You can see that the king and queen are in a political marriage and have never grown to even really like each other. Nothing good can come from this at all.
Ned tries his best to get out of being the new hand of the king but Robert doesn't take no for an answer. And we get a few glimpses of a few more characters.
Paul.
Paul wrote: "Bran If i were him i would have left to be on my own a long time ago."
Catelyn is really awful to him, and it's horrible because she's so nice to Ned, yet she takes all her anger out on Jon.
But Jon does have brothers and sisters who love him, especially Rob and Arya.
Mod
Jon IAgain we are reminded just how young the kids are in the story. Joffrey is 12, basically a 7th grader, and Jon is 14. We see Jon decide to join the Nights Watch. and we get the first speaking lined from Tyrion.
We are still in a character introduction phase of the story. And we learn that Tyrion's family has little love for him.
Paul.
Catelyn IIOh, Sorry, NOW we find out that Lysa (Catelyn's sister) believes the Lanasters had her husband killed.
We find out that most of the Stark's are going to Kings Landing with Ned. Basicly Catelyn, Robb and Brandon are the only ones who will stay. We also get a glimpse at Catelyn being a total bitch when it comes to Jon. Sure he is the bastard son of her husband but it isn't his fault. And he grew up at Winterfell. You would think that in the last 14 years Catelyn would have softened up toward him.
I really don't like Catelyn.
Paul.
Arya IYES. one of my favorite characters from the TV Show. We learn that she is very young and looks like her father. The only other Stark kid who looks like Ned is Jon and he isn't even a Stark. We see that Sansa is very girly and good at musical instruments and madden busy work like needlework.
Arya could care less about girl stuff. She is good at riding a horse. She sees Joffery being an ass and making claims that he then lets the hound get him out of. We see Joffery being a punk and we see Jon being very nice to Arya, being a real brother to her.
Paul.
Bran IIeveryone is getting ready to leave and you kind of feel sorry because most of the them will never come back home.
Just think - The job of the Hand will take Ned years until Robert lets him retire. The kids will be married off for political reasons. So basically this is the last time all the Starks will ever be in the same place again. Even without all that we know will happen to them. I kind of feel sorry for Catelyn and the kids.
The character introduction phase of the book is done and it seems like the story is about to get moving along. Every fantasy book has a huge 'data dump' in the beginning. The reader has to be brought up and the world, the politics, the characters and introduce a threat.
Then BAM. We get a nice fun chapter about Bran climbing and having fun and doing kid stuff like spying on people and learning all sorts of secret stuff about Winterell. then he accidently runs across Jaime and Cersei. Bran really only decides to listen in once he hears them talk about his father. The Naked wrestling bit was funny. Why is that man hurting the queen? She must be in pain the way she is yelling. then Bran gets found out and we are wondering what the Lannisters will do to keep Bran quiet. WOW we never expected to read about a kid being thrown from a tower to his certain death.
This is the first time that we realize this will be a very different story. A much more gritty and dirty story.
Paul.
Tyrion IIThe first thing that strikes me is we have skipped a few days or maybe even a week. We see Tyrion telling Joffrey to go offer his sympathies. We see that Tyrion does what is expected even though he is a wise ass and he might not really mean what he says. Would you rather get no sympathies from people or fake and insincere sympathies??? I don't know.
We learn that a connection between the kids and the wolf they own might be developing.
Paul.
yes she is a total bitch to jon wasnt his fault he was brought into this world but i guess she is taking out on jon and ned by not accepting his son cause its a painful reminder of her husbands betrayal should be taking it out on him though not his son
i sense some sibling rivalry from arya against sansa kinda feel sorry for her in a way she is just trying to find herself in a big family but you couldnt get to polar opposites in my opinon
Ah, I remember when a kid being shoved out of a window was one of the most shocking things I'd read! Sweet summer child...
Mod
I absolutely love Tyrion and Jon conversation btw!
How's everyone getting on? I'm finding the re-read incredibly stressful, I just want to reach through the book and scream "Don't do that! Don't do it!"
im gonna need a lie down before the second book guys
Mod
I have to say that I am really liking the first time we see Tyrion. His conversation with Jon was great. I also understand Catelyn's hate toward Jon, even though Jon is one of my fav narrators! My favorite though has hands down got to be Daenerys! His brother, Viserys, UGH.
In comparison to the show, so spot on! I am loving re-reading this after seeing the show. The first time I read it, there wasn't a show yet, so it's kind of crazy now. I totally see Ned and Catelyn as the actors! So good. I also think the actor that played Viserys was good.
hate viserys so much the way he sells of dani like that no family loyalty completley selfish on his part
I think Harry Lloyd brought a lot more understandable sadness to Viserys' madness, he was soooo good, completely volatile.
As someone who reads a ton of Sci-Fi and Fantasy i like how good the writing is in this book. I have just finished a few stories that were not that well written and poor writing makes you to NOT pick up the book and read it.You can see where GRRM introduces one or two characters but you get a glimpse of one or two others. You get a lot of detail in one chapter about the one or two characters. Then the next chapter moves on and you get to flesh out the characters you only got a glimpse of before. This goes on just a few characters at a time until you have a good understanding of the starting lineup.
Did you notice that at the beginning when the dire wolfs were found that the mother had died because of a wound inflicted upon it by a stag? And then you see that the house emblems of the first two houses we see are a wolf and stag. Then you get the attack on Bram and Catelyn telling people that Tyrion carried out the attack. You get the feeling that the first scene shows you that the outcome might be that both houses destroy each other.
Paul.
sticking to the first 10 chapters of the first book with no spoilers. Pretend you haven't seen the show or read the other books.Ned Stark, he is trying to do his best to provided what is needed to as many people as he can. I like Ned.
I don't really like Catelyn, sure she is mad about Jon but he has been living with her and her kids for 14 years. give the kid a break it isn't his fault. if she can forgive Ned then forgive Jon.
Sansa Stark, I think she is a bonehead. She is stuck up and snooty. I don't like her one bit.
Arya Stark, I like her a lot. Tough, stubborn, won't let "that's for boys" stop her. It was too bad Joffery ran into her and her little friend stick fighting.
Bran Stark, Kind of lazy. All he does is lay around. Oh Yea he did get thrown from a tower. What a shock that was. This is the moment in the story where you learn that THIS is a different kind of story. This is a nitty gritty bad things really do happen kind of story.
Jon Snow, I kind of like him but not as much as other have so far. He has been thrown to the wolfs (lol) and so far his life kind of sucks.
Viserys is a total ass. For someone who has never done anything he has very high opinions of himself. What is up with that. And it said he was the second son of Aerys. Where is the first. was he killed way back when?
Daenerys is a victim of life so far. clueless
Cersei Lannister - What a Witch. first doing her brother and not bothering when Bran is thrown out the window. then setting up someone to off him (we don't know who set it up but i am sure she was part of it) then wanting a dire wolf to be killed. just nasty and mean.
Jaime, other than sleeping with his sister we didn't see much of him.
Joffrey - what a punk. A cry baby twerp.
King Robert is clueless. The Small council does everything. and that means that litlefinger and varys are really running things.
littlefinger and varys - they are way too slimy for anyone's liking. I wouldn't trust them enough to feed my cat.
Paul
I think was was also nice about the prologue is that it lets the reader know that their is fantasy elements and magic in this series so they are aware right off the bat. Especially because for most of this book there isn't really any hardcore fantasy/magic elements in this book until the very end (if I recall correctly that is).
I like that the books are kind of Light on the magic elements. The most important thing in the books are the personal relationships and the human elements of greed and ambition and nastinessPaul
love tyrion jons relationship he has kinda taken him under his wing
Mod
I also think that what sets this storytelling apart is the unique voices of each of these characters. G.R.R.Martin is so good at really creating each of them individually.
Nicci wrote: "Paul wrote: "Bran If i were him i would have left to be on my own a long time ago."
Catelyn is really awful to him, and it's horrible because she's so nice to Ned, yet she takes all her anger ou..."
When it came to this, I didn't like Cat's character. I understand that Ned brought home another child that was obviously from an affair, but to hate the child for it when it's done nothing is ridiculous and I don't like to see people doing it in this day and age either. It's not as if Jon's telling her "You're not my mother", nor does he ever disrespect her in any manner.
Paul wrote: "Arya IYES. one of my favorite characters from the TV Show. We learn that she is very young and looks like her father. The only other Stark kid who looks like Ned is Jon and he isn't even a Stark...."
I couldn't believe that a 12 year old would act like this, but oh my gosh it boiled my blood when meeting Joffrey for the first few times. I was happy afterwards when Tyrion slapped him though. I don't see how anyone puts up with his obnoxious, jerky, pig-headed attitude.
Jillian wrote: "So having finished chapters 1-10, who's your favorite perspective so far??I have to say that I am really liking the first time we see Tyrion. His conversation with Jon was great. I also understand..."
I think I know what you mean by understanding the hate Cat has towards Jon, but that doesn't give her reason to mistreat him so. As an individual he has done nothing wrong to her, and she should be directing this anger elsewhere. I like when Tyrion comes in, and the advice he gives Jon is great! Dany's character is young, but I think she's just longing to be somewhere she won't have to leave so quickly or depend upon anyone who isn't really caring for her from the heart. At first I thought there was some sort of incest between her and Viserys, but I immediately found out that this was just his way of treating her like a possession to do with as he pleased to get where he wanted in life which has consequences.
I think for Catlyn, while her response is uncalled for it is very real and human as we see people in real life misplace their anger on people's who are not at fault. I always figured Catlyn was more angry at Ned for breaking his honor and sleeping with another woman, as well as, allowing Jon to live with them as a constant reminder. She still loves Ned to mitigate some of the anger towards him. However, with Jon she only feels anger and every time she sees him Catlyn is reminded of Ned's betrayal.
Prologue - CHAPTER 0
Bran
Catelyn
Daenerys
Eddard
Jon
Catelyn
Arya
Bran
Tyrion
Jon