The Stand Part Three - Chapter 55 of Book II to the end

[Karen B.]

Part Three of The Stand - feel free to discuss

[mrbooks]

Hi Karen it worked. OK here is my first spoiler and it comes from Tom. (view spoiler)[ "The lord is my shepherd I shall not want, He makes my lie down in the green pastures. He greases up my head with oil. He gives me kung-fu in the face of my enemies. (hide spoiler)] Reading this always makes me laugh.

[Karen B.]

Thanks. I loved that!

[Nick]

Okay, I found it. Thanks. I remember King saying in his book On Writing that he got to a point in creating THE STAND that he couldn't figure out what to do next. He had too many characters and the story was becoming uncontrollable. His solution, of course, was to kill off a few.(view spoiler)[It's tragic that it had to be Nick. But King was too heavily invested in Stu and Larry, I think, and the tie in with Tom in Las Vegas was just too important not to go that way. (hide spoiler)]Too bad though.

[Karen B.]

Yeah. I was disappointed by that and (view spoiler)[ with killing off the judge. (hide spoiler)]

[mrbooks]

Ah but Karen (view spoiler)[ We knew the judge and Dana were going to be killed off, anyone sent as a spy was destined to be killed. Tom survives because of what makes him special, his lack of hatred towards anything and anyone. Tom put it best when he said the only thing different between Las Vagas and Boulder Colorado is that there is more love in Boulder. (hide spoiler)] that how I see it anyway.

[Karen B.]

mrbooks, that certainly makes sense. I liked how they handled it.

[mrbooks]

In my opinion Tom is the one character this book can not do without. you take anyone out of it and it would be the same take Tom out and it all changes.

[Karen B.]

Tom adds that special something. His humanness, his honesty.

[mrbooks]

His character is so simplistic and yet so complex his love of life and everything in it is just a joy to read. He is so accepting of things as they are without any sugar coating needed is refreshing.

[Nick]

Did anyone have problems with the climax of the book... that is (view spoiler)[the final scene in Las Vegas? (hide spoiler)]

[Karen B.]

Nick, I'm not sure what you mean by "trouble" - could you expand a little more. Did you have trouble? I have some thoughts about it but would like to see to what you are referring.

[Nick]

I've read the series three times and every time I enjoy it so much that I hope it will go on forever, I don't really want to leave those characters. I Always jump it up to the #1 King book on my list as I'm reading it and then I get to the climax and it immediately drops as low as # 5 or 6 in my estimation because (view spoiler)[it just seems wrong that Mother Black sends the best good guys to Las Vegas to confront Flagg and - if you think about it - they have really no effect on the outcome of the story whatsoever. The actions of the Trashcan man in eventually destroying the Vegas community are totally independent of anything Larry and the others do. It's like Mother sends them to their death for no reason at all. The scene with Glenn and Flagg together may frustrate Flagg but what purpose does it serve? And the bit with Larry in the cage about to be pulled apart is almost like something out of a Roadrunner cartoon. Now I know that King does try to explain all this near the very end of the book by having Stu reflecting that God always demands a sacrifice. Larry and the gang were sacrifices. Sorry, but that's pretty lame. It's like King is grasping for straws to explain it all. What I expected was some act or interaction by the four travelers that would have helped precipitate Trash and his efforts. Without that it all it just seems like such a waste. For once I think that King's ending is pretty good. But this scene which I think has to be considered the climactic scene in the whole book should have been better. (hide spoiler)]

[Karen B.]

I thought (view spoiler)[ the men praying influenced the hand of God appearing; it isn't just trashcan's doing but the supernatural appearance of God's hand that was significant (hide spoiler)]

[Angel]

Nick wrote: "I've read the series three times and every time I enjoy it so much that I hope it will go on forever, I don't really want to leave those characters. I Always jump it up to the #1 King book on my li..."
I sort of agree. For one, there is so much lead-up, and then when it finally happens it feels... I don't know, rushed or truncated, somehow. And yes, some of the events feel kind of pointless. I'm just finishing "The Talisman", and feeling similarly. When reading both of them, I was both rushing through and hoping it would go on and be very satisfying. But there are definitely some unsatisfying elements. It's not that I want everything tied up with a bow, because a little unfinished business isn't a bad thing, it's just I feel like I wanted something a little more (or different) for the climax.

[James]

I don't know if you can say that an ending is rushed on a book that's well over a thousand pages. Maybe he should have broken it up into three books. That would have given him more room to work.

[mrbooks]

Nick wrote: "I've read the series three times and every time I enjoy it so much that I hope it will go on forever, I don't really want to leave those characters. I Always jump it up to the #1 King book on my li..."

Hi Nick, here is what I think. (view spoiler)[ When Flagg confronts Glen in his cell he is rebuffed by glen and looses his ability of rational thinking and just reacted. The way I see it if you don't have Larry Glen and Ralph show up in Vegas, then there is no reason for the gathering to watch there execution. With out the gathering then Whitney wouldn't have spoken up and Flagg would not have sealed his lips with his magic, and it would not have been able to be used against him. With Larry and Ralph chained up in the cages ready to be pulled apart once the magic is released it can be utilized by god to devastating effect. I know it sounds lame but if you think of how they are sent as messenger's of god or Mother Abigail f you like, it makes sense. There sacrifice is not for nothing, unless you want to consider the actual escape of Flagg as a failure on there part. The fact that Stu was left on the way side was so he could be a witness to the event and report what happened to the free zone in Boulder. (hide spoiler)]

[mrbooks]

Angel wrote: "Nick wrote: "I've read the series three times and every time I enjoy it so much that I hope it will go on forever, I don't really want to leave those characters. I Always jump it up to the #1 King ..."

The beauty of the way he finished the book is how it would feel in real life if it actually happened. Think of it this way, when you get married, you plan and prepare for your wedding for anything up to 2 years, but as the day approaches, things speed up and accelerate at an alarming rate. In the end the day is like a flash in the pan you hardly start the day before it is done and you think what was all the hard work, stress, and anxiety all about and where did the day go.

[Nick]

mrbooks wrote: "Nick wrote: "I've read the series three times and every time I enjoy it so much that I hope it will go on forever, I don't really want to leave those characters. I Always jump it up to the #1 King ..."

I agree with you about Stu, and I never thought of Flagg's return as anything other than the way he is (demonic). But I will go back and reread that scene and see if I missed your point about the gathering. Currently, I feel that the trashcan man could have blown the whole place up with or without the gathering. But I want to re-read it, and I'll let you know. Personally, I hope you're right.

[Nick]

mrbooks wrote: "Nick wrote: "I've read the series three times and every time I enjoy it so much that I hope it will go on forever, I don't really want to leave those characters. I Always jump it up to the #1 King ..."
/i>

Okay Mr. Books I get it. And you're right. (view spoiler)[It's that ball of fire that Flagg used to seal Whitney's lips that comes back in the end (looking like the hand of God) and sets off the A Bomb. Trash doesn't set it off, though he might have. So, yeah, if Larry and Co. hadn't been captured the gathering wouldn't have happened and that fire ball would not have been created. And, I guess Stu's later comment that God always demands a sacrifice, just adds to the mysticism.
(hide spoiler)]

[mrbooks]

No thanks Necessary Nick, we all have our own way at looking at things and sometimes we find it hard to look past what we are expect to see. (view spoiler)[ I see in your spoiler on 2 Aug you put one of your characters in place of Mother Abigail, lol I thought it was a slip but then just after I came across the character in your book. It wouldn't have twigged but like I said I just met her in your book. (hide spoiler)]

[Nick]

mrbooks wrote: "No thanks Necessary Nick, we all have our own way at looking at things and sometimes we find it hard to look past what we are expect to see. [spoilers removed]"

Man... either I'm reading too much or writing too much or both. At least that's what my wife keeps telling me.

[mrbooks]

As you can't do to much of either, what I think happened is you got confused with what your reading and what you wrote in your review, keep up the good work.

[Nick]

mrbooks wrote: "As you can't do to much of either, what I think happened is you got confused with what your reading and what you wrote in your review, keep up the good work."

Thanks, Mr. Books. Since my wife is out of town for two weeks it looks like I'll be doing even more.

[mrbooks]

Two weeks can get you a lot of reading and writing done don't forget to take time to eat as well, or you will end up thinner... I am off Sat morning for a week in Sunny, or in this case liquid sunshiny Cornwall. I will get back with you as soon as I get back or at least the day after as my son is having his Stag party part 2 the day I get back and I am expected to attend. Enjoy your two weeks and keep the thoughts flowing and the books going. Steve

[Steven]

Anyone else deeply disappointed with the ending of this book? I have this love hate relationship with Mr. King: I love the journey but am usually disappointed with the end. I felt this way about Salems Lot, IT, and now the Stand. Without getting into spoilers, I just felt the ending made too much use of deus ex machina to have any sense of satisfaction.

Thoughts?

[Nick]

In this case... "trashcan from the machine", though God apparently had a hand in it too. A few days ago I commented on my disappointment and even though Mr. Books corrected my misconceptions I still put THE STAND on the list of books where the ending doesn't quite work (more the climax than the ending though). And yes, IT is one of those books too.