The Handmaid’s Tale
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Something to think about.
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Jun 20, 2014 03:03AM
I've been thinking recently about the point of some these great literary texts which no one reads except a few. I'm genuinely interested in what you all have to say about this. Not even necessarily The Handmaid's Tale, just any book really that more people should read because of it's relevance to human life but don't (This book just made me wonder because I had to read it for school and I was pretty much the only one who didn't hate it). What's the point of a book that has so much to say that can be so important if the 'general public' aren't interested?
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This is not an obscure and unknown book, you know. It has almost as many ratings as Catch-22 (over 300,000), and they generally liked it. Your classmates' reaction is fairly typical of people who are forced to read something in school. But to answer your question, even if only 1000 people read it and thought it was good, the author has still managed to influence more people than most of us manage in a lifetime. A book doesn't have to change the world to have a point.
Anna, I have long ago ceased to try and convert the mindless general public into a group of thinkers. They have American Idol.....and Facebook......why should they have to read? However, I do live to discuss this book. To be honest, the book freaked me out just a bit. The part that got to me the most was the seizure of all bank accounts belonging to women. Years ago, when gold was much cheaper than it is now, I put gold an a safe deposit box in a Windsor, Ontario bank. Like Offred, I am only a couple of hours from the Canadian border. I kept telling myself....."This is for just in case I end up in a similar situation to Offred's". The gold is still there, but I think it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
Holly wrote: "Anna, I have long ago ceased to try and convert the mindless general public into a group of thinkers. They have American Idol.....and Facebook......why should they have to read? However, I do l..." At one point it became illegal for citizen's to actually own gold. I am not sure about the location/setting of the book. I just don't see Cambridge as becoming the center of a cultish religion based on male dominance. Not even Cambridge in the 80s. Sure Harvard has the oldest divinity school, but I don't think it is looked at as the place people that want to be religious leaders go. I know their are other factions across America and I am curious how Atwood envisions them as well.
@Anna Nope, probably not Cambridge.
It will probably be somewhere in a southern region of the Bible Belt.
Or some obscure little midwest town like the one I live in...
I once had a boyfriend who kept nagging me to marry him and have his child. His argument was that I had an obligation to continue his superior DNA . . . Yeah, he's gone, lol. Life in the South. It's weird when you're "not from around here."
Atwood's world isn't so incomprehensible or implausible from here. Especially not with all its reliance on Judeo-Christian scripture for justification.
I have to admit at times I genuinely felt chills when comtemplating this book as it scarily parallels huge chunks of today's, and especially, past society. For me it was a question of: 'Will society eventually go full circle and revert back to totalaristic attitudes, or worse?!' I know that it's all hypothetical and I'm exaggerating but it only takes the ideas of a handful of people to spark a revolution. :)
Been listening to the politicking lately? U.S. Supreme Court decisions? Know what "chattel laws" are?
No please enlighten me :)
Chattel laws (also known as coverture) were the laws that stated when a woman married she became, essentially, the property of her husband. Anything she owned, even prior to the marriage, became his. She had no legal say or recourse as to how he disposed of what had been hers. Any earnings she had were his.It hasn't been so very long ago that, even in the U.S., a husband's permission was required for a woman to undergo a tubal ligation, even a hysterectomy for medical reasons. Nor has it been too long past that for a married woman to make a major purchase, even when the law stated otherwise, it was difficult for her to do so without her husband as a cosigner.
We aren't that far away from these things, and it's frightening to see the Supreme Court handing down rulings that carry shadows of those times. Almost as frightening as listening to political and religious groups pushing for a ride back in Mr. Peabody's Wayback machine.
It frightening that the U.S. Supreme Court seems to be stuck in the past regarding the rights of women and corporations. "Only in America"...can a corporation have the rights of an individual! Isn't a corporation made up of LOTS of people, including their employees? Certainly EVERYONE in that entity does not share identical beliefs!
thanks for sharing. I think the problem is that it is not always the majority of beliefs/political views that influences society, but the individuals/small groups who own the most power e.g law enforcers, governments, dictatorships etc. And so the rest of society follow the lead as those in hierarchical positions are naturally assumed to be 'right'.
The whole time I was reading this book, I kept thinking bout how thin our veil of civility is. All it takes is a crisis, famine, disaster, or war...and people lose their common courtesy and sense of civility and for some it becomes every man for himself very quickly. When things go out of control, people look to someone who can bring back order, and sometimes that person, or government, ends up being oppressive. Of course this book is dystopian, but it is also not all that unrealistic.
The Handmaid's Tale is even more relevant today than it was when first published. If you liked that book, try reading It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Totally different scenario but also frightening and also relevant to today's political situation. I think it's sad that there are so many people disinterested in reading but I do understand that school reading assignments may decrease rather than increase a person's interest level.
Mary wrote: "The whole time I was reading this book, I kept thinking bout how thin our veil of civility is. All it takes is a crisis, famine, disaster, or war...and people lose their common courtesy and sense o..."Gorgeous phrase!
Renee wrote: "Mary wrote: "The whole time I was reading this book, I kept thinking bout how thin our veil of civility is. All it takes is a crisis, famine, disaster, or war...and people lose their common courtes..."Thanks!
Shelley wrote: "The Handmaid's Tale is even more relevant today than it was when first published. If you liked that book, try reading It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Totally different scenario but also fri..."Totall agree with the point about people's lack in interest towards reading...I'm not sure if schools enforcing it is the problem though, or if the alternative use of technology as entertainment is to blame for the the decrease in leisurely reading. It's a shame because I'm always thinking how much people are missing out on: reading a good book is like entering another world! :)
I teach, and we certainly do teach and encourage and assign reading of books. But I have to say that many, many students want the flash and awe of video games, or the shortened movie version of the book. It is getting harder and harder to get kids to read by choice. So many other entertainment options available to them that require a lot less thinking. I have always loved books, and I try to model that enthusiasm for and love of books for my students. But many still prefer video games, cartoons and movies...sad..but a reality.
We have come to want our information/entertainment in bytes of three minutes or less.Attention spans have to be exercised as we grow. It's part of learning.
I've wondered if a lot of kids who get slapped with the label "ADD" and sent home with a note telling their parents to put them on drugs or else are really suffering from neglected attention span development.
Very true Renee. I'm an adult and I know better but I find myself pulling out my phone to google info immediately. It has it's benefits. But tech also has a lot of pitfalls. Playing outdoors is almost a forgotten art!
Yes, it is. I just spent four hours in and by the pool, reclaiming a lost art and enjoying letting my little APBT run and try to figure out how to get out of the fence to go visit the horses.
Holly wrote: "Anna, I have long ago ceased to try and convert the mindless general public into a group of thinkers. They have American Idol.....and Facebook......why should they have to read? However, I do l..."
I agree with you Holly. It seems like a majority of the population want you to think for them. They have TV, internet, no reason to read anymore. It seems to be harder and harder to find people who like to talk about books they read instead of talking about other people!
Jeffery wrote:They have TV, internet, no reason to read anymore...."And no reasoning.
Only rationalizing.
Anna wrote: "I've been thinking recently about the point of some these great literary texts which no one reads except a few. I'm genuinely interested in what you all have to say about this. Not even necessarily..."If the "general" public doesn't care, then that's their loss.
Ours, too. They vote.
Actually, they overall pretty much run the place.
I agree Renee..I can only speak for Americans, but we have come to like all our information to be sound byte level. Sure some educate themselves on issues,take the time, read, but most just take a 30 sec news bit or a forwarded post on Facebook and call it done. Scary for sure.
I don't think this is anything new - avid readers have always been a minority of the general population, and even when working men's clubs had libraries and talks on all sorts of subjects, the ones who took up those opportunities were a minority of the workforce. There have always been other distractions for those who want them.
What do people think about Kindle books and online reading? I personally enjoy the feel and smell of real books whilst part of the reading experience but I know many people like the practicality of being able to 'carry' thousands of books in their back pockets.
I am old-fashioned as far as having a real book in my hand and being able to turn pages. Nowadays, though, Kindle and all the other electronic books is just another reading alternative. I am for audio books for when I am in my car driving(it IS kind of hard to read and drive at the same time! :-) )
I don't have a Kindle. The thought of having all my books on one small, easy to lose device is what keeps me reading physical paper books. I re-read books, so it is a practical investment. I also live in an old house with a lot of unnecessary rooms, so I have the space.
I like a book in hand. It also bothers me that I can't share a book I buy on my iPhone. I can't just pass ot on to a friend like I do a paperback. I paid for it just like the paperback, but I can't share it....
I felt like Mary, about sharing books (although I only lend, I rarely let a book go) until I started writing and got to know other writers. Now I'm keenly aware that every time I lend — or buy used, I'm shorting the writer. I still buy used from time to time, but try to stick to that for out of print books or deceased authors. I'm not 100% consistent, but unemployment comes with parameters.
I can kinda see what you are saying Renee, but is pay for each use really right? I read novels in my class every year, should I then buy 36 each of Island of the Blue Dolphins, Charlie and Chocolate Factory, Ramona, Because of Winn Dixie, Sarah Plain and Tall, Etc every year? What about when you buy a DVD should you have to state how many people will watch it? Pay for each family member like at the movies? Are we paying for the book itself, regardless of how many times it's read? Or are you saying to be fair we should pay the author each time it's read by a different person? I think that's the way digital us going, and I understand about piracy issues, but sharing is not piracy is it? Or is it that with online books and music and video the opportunity to share is huge? Whereas a book may have 10 readers in a lifetime, online book could be shared thousands of times? I can see both sides.
It's not piracy, it's just that now I'm aware that this is how a writer gets paid, at least until the film and merchandising rights get picked up..A writer doesn't make much per book sold, and it's a huge investment of time and work, most times capital as well, for publicity, editing, etc. Even the big publishers don't often share those expenses with the writer.
I think publishers/movie companies/ music producers are going to have to rethink how they pay artists. Lots more competition digitally. Sad to say I know this, but 50 Shades of Grey started out as fan fiction and sold online before it was every published legitimately. Lot of independent musicians produce their own songs and sell on iTunes. Internet is a game changer
I read Handmaid's Tale as an ebook borrowed from the library as I was traveling overseas so it could be done when I returned and my book group met. Very useful (ebooks) that way.
Very interesting conversation going on here. I would agree completely with some of the commentators who have expressed some worry about the state of the reading public, at least in the US. There are a number of factors that play into this, but I think the advent of the smart phone is one of the biggest culprits.
I have personally watched roommates who at one time were very savvy media consumers become completely unable to even sit and watch a 30 minute TV show without staring into the "Black Mirror" for at least 3-5 minutes out of every 10. Forget about a 90 minute movie. And books? Not only do I not think that either one has actually read a book in years, but even a conversation longer than 4 or 5 minutes requires at least one or two sessions with Narcissus. Usually while you are trying to say something, so that you have to deal with the "What was that?" After every few sentences(although hilariously, sometimes this happens right in the middle of their own sentence, after which they can't remember what they were going to say!).
It drives me crazy, but trying to express why only gets me the look that you get when you try to teach a dog a card trick. They can no longer even conceive why a person wouldn't want to be just like them, usually because "It's so convenient!" It's terrifying to have watched this change happen from the outside, and is one of the reasons I refuse to get a smart phone, or use facebook or twitter. I fear becoming just another Pod person, Instagramming every meal that I eat and getting roped into playing Scrabble every few minutes with a person I barely know.
While I can agree with some of Lesley's comment that heavy readers have always been a minority, I really do think we are seeing a profound change in Human behavior and intelligence occurring. Not getting better or worse necessarily, but fundamentally different.
It reminds me of a clip I saw of Graham Linehan talking about modern media. He was of the opinion that one of the unspoken reasons as to why so many movies and video games these days feel so flat and boring is that the young people writing the scripts have never actually read a book for fun, so you just get the same ideas that these kids have seen in other movies/games get recycled over and over again.
Now that's a scary thought in your last paragraph, HerodotusMao!
Lesley wrote: "Now that's a scary thought in your last paragraph, HerodotusMao!"It's funny, it's one of those ideas that had never occurred to me, but now that I've heard it, I see it everywhere... it's like the Wilhelm scream in film, you never noticed it before, but once you know it exists, you hear it everywhere!
I am not a fan of ereaders at all. I work in a bookshop and we sell them, so i know all the benefits, but i just love owning books. One thing that has started to crop up since ereaders and is really annoying me is writers who have a trilogy or something on the go releasing ereader only novellas concerning the characters in the trilogy between books. I really hate it.
So, this thread somehow went from discussing the book to discussing why other media isn't as good as books?I love video games and I love movies but I also love books. Don't forget that there are 'trashy' books as well as good ones. Not only old classics are valuable, there are also good newer books. The same goes for video games. You get good ones with an interesting, intelligent plot and you get the ones where there's not much to it. Also, video games count as a work of art. Please look up visual appealing games like 'Flower' and 'Journey' (both from the same company). Journey is not only visually appealing, it also comes with a story that needs no words.
TV shows ... yeah, same here. You get your really dumb ones and you get your interesting ones.
Generalizing things is never good.
Sparrowlicious wrote: "So, this thread somehow went from discussing the book to discussing why other media isn't as good as books?I love video games and I love movies but I also love books. Don't forget that there are ..."
I'm not really sure where you got the idea that anyone is trashing video games. I in fact love them, and have been playing them ever since the preteen me was given a Colecovision. And while generalizations are sometimes a bad idea, its also the only way to be able to try and see treads occurring in a wider population.
The point I personally was trying to make (perhaps poorly) is that a lack of a foundation in reading actual, real books, as well as the ADHD that heavy smartphone usage can foster, has a negative knock-on effect in consumers as well as in the creation of all other forms of media. So when someone creates a brilliant and unique game, like say, "Gone Home," which actual seems to be made by highly literate developer(s) and requires actual thought and imagination from the player it goes completely under the radar, while the latest FPS makes billions. I would argue that this is due to the fact that those FPS are made for people who don't read, who don't care about character development or plot, they just want things to blow up pretty. I'm not saying that all of us doesn't need some mindless entertainment sometimes, but this is the norm in not just games, but television and movies (and to the detriment of more creative works).
How many copies of both of the games that you mention have played compared to, say, even the oldest, crappiest version of Call of Duty? As you say, there are trashy books just as there are trashy games. But which kind are consumed with more vigor by the general public? Which book was more popular, "50 Shades of Grey," (a book as poorly written and trashy as it gets) or something like "Handmaid?" Which movie, "Moon" or "Transformers?"
Do you think "Call of Duty" would be better if the developers had a deep love of reading, and with it a desire to create deeper characters, plots, and overall storytelling, or worse?
It's not a new fear, but is one that has been playing out for as long as humans have been around.
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