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Should men have to get a license for online discourse
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I agree with Ana on the fact that so many countries aren't paying good use to such censorship authorities,because at the end of the day transparency is a key fundamental in all walks of life and Keith transparency weren't such a difficult thing when you have two tin cans and a string.is it? ;DI wish I could have experienced that era of black and white.
Ashna don't have to go back far and OSS would not be possible talking to people took a long time and was unreliable physical process.Interestingly they had similar issues we do now about privacy. They passed law that you could not open someone else's mail it became normal practice not to
Similar behavior change to respect people, women online. I still think it can be done.
Ross wrote: "Ashna don't have to go back far and OSS would not be possible talking to people took a long time and was unreliable physical process.Interestingly they had similar issues we do now about privacy...."
You know, social facts are hard to break. If they are installed once then we do it without thinking much about it. So there's still hope. Sociology is cool;)
If you are a network engineer, then you know that there is no perfectly secure network. Perfect walled gardens simply are not possible. Nobody is capable of making this actually work. Every network is vulnerable in some way. I agree (as I said above) that cyber bullying has profoundly negative, real world impacts. But there are already safe, well moderated communities that people who want a safer internet can use. The gains in minimizing (but not eliminating) cyber bullying do not outweigh the degradation of privacy and safety for minorities and activists around the world whose lives literally depend upon an open internet. There are less invasive techniques to mitigate the effects of cyber bullying, such as interventions in person and increasing social support networks for at risk individuals.
And, again, making the 'license' only apply to men is profoundly anti-feminist and ignores the fact that anyone can be abusive on the internet, regardless of gender.
Jeremy, Perfection is irrelevant, I am just shaping behavior in that I am limiting the ability for an individual to harass women. Most Troll and abusers are cowards and would not risk doing what they do in an environment where they could be called to account. The problem we face is largely cultural and based on a lack of responsibility. The simple step I suggested of not having false or anonymous accounts would have immediate impact for example.
I have not denied it is sexist, it is not anti-feminist however to have safe havens for women.
Sexist in that men are targeted but that is because men make up most of the abusers and women the targets. But again as I said you don't have to join. Also there are many places women are restricted from in the real world have you subjected any of them to your objections. Probably not because they have been, up till now sanctioned.
If you have no intention of harming anyone you would have no problem showing the moderators who you are just like is done on goodreads.com I did not invent any of the measures I propose just thinking of ways to use them to stop online abuse of women.
Ideas ways of being can be used to change behavior just as similar forces created the offending behavior in the first place.
In this case, being unable to deliver perfection is actually relevant and harmful. Such a network designed to provide a safe haven for women by restricting the behavior of men would inevitably be penetrated, and the inevitable violation of a place purporting to provide safety would amplify the effects of such a violation. There simply is not a way to deliver on this idea that would be better than the carefully moderated online communities that already exist. And the current system allows for the preservation of anonymity that so many individuals accessing such a community rely upon. Education efforts in the 'real' world and careful moderation of online communities provides a far more effective solution than an invasive and sexist licensing system that cannot deliver the safety desired and does not address the underlying social issues.
Jeremy, you seem convinced the area would be violated thereby supporting my point of men being the bigger problem and strengthening the argument such provisions are needed. The licensing system was only one aspect of what I was proposing. be that is it may I would be interested if other people have options of there own to address this online mistreatment of women.
My suggestion when addressing this no matter how unpalatable. work the problem.
Keith wrote: "Ashna wrote: " Keith transparency weren't such a difficult thing when you have two tin cans and a string.is it? ;DI wish I could have experienced that era of black and white."
Transparency with t..."
A wonderful lesson at it!!loved it. :)))
Thank you.
Keith wrote: "Transparency with two tin cans and a piece of string - very easy actually, as inevitably it didn't work, so you ended up shouting at each other, so everyone else knew what you were saying and who said it; the very definition of transparency in communications :)"Hahaha, funny Keith, I really like your kind of humour! :)
And well, that's the reason why I don't use my smoke signals anymore to chat with my friends! ;)
Smoke signals work fine but they are much too intransparent for the public. Plus: you can only communicate with smoke signals when the weather is fine and it doesn't rain. :)
On the other side, their advantage is a bit more privacy than, let's say, using the internet for communication which has much more of a public character like what the ancient Greeks called the Agora where everyone is speaking at the same time and only those who are the loudest can be heard by others. :)
I am convinced that such a network would be penetrated because every network gets penetrated. That isn't a man/woman thing. It's a human thing. It doesn't prove that men need to restricted to protect the delicate women. All it means is that people chase challenges. I believe that online culture is problematic on some parts of the internet. I just see this idea of licensing as technically infeasible, targeting symptoms rather than the core problem, and ideologically inconsistent with feminism. Women aren't delicate flowers to protect and men aren't terrible monsters. Gender, and people, are far more complex, and any true solution must acknowledge that. We don't fix gender based issues by being white knights.
Everyone should have the right to have online discourse.
I totally agree with you Jeremy. Licensing the internet would be a solution like forbidding men to walk outside at night. It would seem like a good solution to guarantee safety for women, but it would solve nothing. It would just cement prejudice about gender even more.I think the only real solution lies in education, in new generations growing up respecting each other. In new generations where the majority does not see a male/female divide and does not feel the need to harrass, online or offline.
Michaela wrote: "I totally agree with you Jeremy. Licensing the internet would be a solution like forbidding men to walk outside at night. It would seem like a good solution to guarantee safety for women, but it wo..."I agree. Our culture needs to change... "boys will be boys" is probably one of the most problematic sentences I've ever heard...
Michaela wrote: "I totally agree with you Jeremy. Licensing the internet would be a solution like forbidding men to walk outside at night. It would seem like a good solution to guarantee safety for women, but it wo..."
When I see some online comments (like on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter), I'm wondering how a normal human can write them. I broadly prefer to spend my "online" time here where people are civilized and take part in meaningful and useful conversations.
Like you, I think education is the key like for a lot of other issues.
Instagram put in place several months ago an AI based system to block offensive comments :
https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/29/15...
When I see some online comments (like on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter), I'm wondering how a normal human can write them. I broadly prefer to spend my "online" time here where people are civilized and take part in meaningful and useful conversations.
Like you, I think education is the key like for a lot of other issues.
Instagram put in place several months ago an AI based system to block offensive comments :
https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/29/15...
Absolutely agree - it's scary when you feel so impotent. Regulate yes, but:
Who designs them?
Who police's them?
What punishment?
What about an appeals process?
These and many others ar..."
Questions that will probably need to be debated again and again. And I agree with you, it's not very likely that there will be a consensus that everyone agrees with. Can't be.
And Ana raises a fair point, because from what I know, China is definitely not using it to protect its citizens.