Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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The Big Dangerous Ground Re-Read!
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Linda ~ they got the mustard out! ~
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Jul 26, 2017 06:25PM
It looks like I have an opening on my TBR list for this month, so I might have time for a reread after all. :)
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Mod
Also love that closing line. And Will's response:
“If you don’t want me to drown you, shut up,” Will said. He was laughing, but his laugh cracked.
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LOL. You're like hubby! He could listen to one song over and over again forever. When we first met I found it irritating, but over the years I've realized that the habit is actually contagious... :-D
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Interesting question. :-) I'd like to think that it's a lot like Jake and Adrien. That both Jake and Taylor are perfectly satisfied with those "meat and potatoes" as long as they can enjoy them with Adrien and Will. Although... compared to Adrien I think Will might be more willing to be persuaded to try some more exotic dish at some point. :-D
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...and one of my favorite Josh Lanyon lines at the end of it,
"Thank God we did this. Now we don't have to ever think about it again."
"Ha!" indeed! :-D
When Josh and I made the JL coloring book Love is a Many-Colored Thing, from the very first moment we started planning I KNEW I wanted to have that hot springs scene to be somehow shown in the Dangerous Ground coloring pic! :-D It's so many things, isn't it? It's sexy, delightful, emotional, surprising and fun. Oh yes. Well done, Josh! :-)
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..."
I think it is fascinating how readers see things so differently. To my relief, most readers see the situation between Will and Taylor as I intended it (and believe I wrote it). But it's a great reminder that no book or series is right for every reader -- even for readers who genuinely love your work.
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What I like about Taylor the most is that he knows who he loves. There is no doubt, there is no reluctance. Taylor is all in from the start. He ..."
Well, but here's the thing. Will has these thoughts and then rejects them as the wrong way to be thinking or feeling. So yes, it does through his mind that he and Taylor need a break, but then he rejects that as the wrong way to think -- and later in the story he says -- several times -- how glad he is that Taylor came and that Taylor is with him.
Will is going through a character arc. If he had no growing to do, there would be no real story here. It would simply be two guys who get along great and get into a lot of trouble. Granted, people do write books like that...but I am rarely one of them. :-D
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Yeah, I do think so. And maybe that was also the reason why Taylor went along wit..."
So here's what's actually happening. Will is terrified Taylor is going to be injured or killed again --and maybe, maybe there's still a little hint of fear that Taylor will not be satisfied with him. That a steady relationship with a meat and potatoes guy will not be enough for someone as adventurous and experienced as Taylor.
Bradley is a much safer bet, in all those respects, which is why Will jumps to a safer time and a safer relationship in his memory when he's injured. It's not because he loves Bradley more. It's because there simply isn't the risk with Bradley. What he longs for with Bradley isn't about Bradley. It's about a simpler and less stressful life. But that's not how he feels most of the time. That's the impulse a lot of us feel when life seems very complicated and difficult at various moments. WHY DIDN'T I STICK WITH TEACHING? WHY DIDN'T I MARRY THE DENTIST? ;-) Would I really trade my life for the life I didn't pick? No.
I think Will is being absolutely honest when he says he doesn't want to wait any longer to start his life with Taylor. He bought the wedding ring before the amnesia, before Taylor has even arrived in France. He's got a plan and a proposal in mind, and he wants that plan to be in motion, so he is not really dissuaded much by the possibility of them both staying in the DSS in Paris. That's not enough for him.
Which is arrogant, yes. So is his feeling that only he can keep Taylor safe and in one piece.
He has his flaws, but not loving Taylor enough is not one of them.
Mod
That's true. But at the end of Kick Start, Will does apologize again, and this time he's honest and admits he's frightened he might have made a mistake. And Taylor is honest in letting him know that he too wanted to begin their life together, but that Will cannot continued to make these decisions for him. He draws his line in the sand at the end of Kick Start. And there is no reason not to believe that they are both being honest.
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Hahahahahhahaa. I didn't notice that! I must address that. I don't really think of Will as a big C&W guy, other than Emmy Lou -- in the same way that I adore Emmy Lou, but am not a big C&W fan. So...who else is Will likely to listen to?
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I have to admit, I don't have a lot of patience with the idea that Jason was not "faithful" to a guy who told him the relationship was over. The very idea that he should hold off, makes me mad. In real life that would be pathetic.
**Having said that, his choice in who to have sex with was, under the circumstances, ABYSMAL. :-D
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Here're my first impressions after finishing: Will’s possible, future Paris posting casts its shadow over the who..."
Blood Heat is my favorite of the stories. Old Poison is my least favorite. What's surprising to me is how many people love OP best. That's the kind of thing that's so interesting as the author. Sometimes you know exactly what readers in general will think. Sometimes you're as surprised as anyone.
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Yes. Correct. Taylor resigns on his own. At the point that he accepts Will's proposal, he doesn't have all the facts, doesn't realize that there is a very real possibility he and Will could be together in Paris, but he could certainly refuse to resign once he does have the facts. He doesn't do that. And that's almost certainly because the Paris gig would present a lot of difficulties for them -- first of all, it's not for sure. It's just a possibility. Secondly, they would almost certainly be revealed to be lovers and that would be tricky -- unlike the FBI the DSS does have a non-frat policy for agents -- and thirdly, he IS tempted by the idea of opening up their own agency. It's not the plan he objects to, it's how Will handled it.
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Were they trying to fall asleep? Lifehouse is good for that. ;)"
HEY!!!!
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Will says at some point they were listening to a lot of Lifehouse on the drive north. ;-)
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Read cold? I'm not sure what that means. It seems to me that a story should be complex enough that it offers material for analysis and scrutiny. Even genre fiction!
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LOL But I don't think I can have Will listening to BS&CG. :-D Tempting though it is.
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I have all Taylor Swift in my car player -- and have for the last year. :-D However, again, pretty sure Will would not be listening to TS.
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Bingo.
And I think Taylor pretty much addresses this at the end of KS. It's not that he wouldn't have made all the choices Will wanted him to make. It's that Will doesn't allow him to choose. Will doesn't trust him to choose. And that is a problem.
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"I have to admit, I don't have a lot of patience with the idea that Jason was not "faithful" to a guy who told him the relationship was over. The very idea that he should hold off, makes me mad. In real life that would be pathetic."
I couldn't agree more.
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Snow Patrol?
Josh wrote: "Clary wrote: "So, I didn't judge Will too harshly for the unilateral career decision for both of them. Here's the reason - if memory serves, and I haven't read Dead Run in a long time so maybe I am...":D I'm just so happy that you wrote that.
Josh wrote: "I have to admit, I don't have a lot of patience with the idea that Jason was not "faithful" to a guy who told him the relationship was over. The very idea that he should hold off, makes me mad. In real life that would be pathetic.**Having said that, his choice in who to have sex with was, under the circumstances, ABYSMAL. :-D "
I fully understand that Jason was not cheating. What I meant with having no faith in Jason anymore, is not because he did have that awful totaly disgusting rebound sex. That happened because he broke up with Sam. Right so he moved on. Right...and then Sam came back and Jason climbed into bed with him. Wtf? What happened to making a decision and sticking with it? What happened to not being together with Sam? At least for
this book. That was the whole point of why I had to suffer through the torture of Jason and Shipka having sex...But Jasons rebound guys corpse was barely cold by the time he went back to being in a relationship. So I no longer have a clue what Jason is capable of. I just don't. The way Jason was in Monet Murders was very confusing and off putting.
Josh wrote: "K. wrote: "Since I have only practically talked about Will....What I like about Taylor the most is that he knows who he loves. There is no doubt, there is no reluctance. Taylor is all in from the..."
Oh I love a good character arc...as long it's not based on a guy pining after a man he is not in relationship with. Or actual cheating. Or any form of love triangle. One or both MC's sleeping around to grow character or I don't know why they do it *shrug*.
There are very few books where what I described above is used and I loved it. It's just one of my hard limits I suppose. And yes, I've been lectured countless times that I don't understand how cheating/ love triangles etc. makes a brilliant book. I still don't see that point of view, but we all see the world differently. I just don't like that kinda story lines. In order for those plot devices to work for me, I have to be very invested in the characters.
It's a rare thing for me to find such book.
I am puzzeled by it, but for example somehow story of Adrien and Jake worked. It shouldn't have, but it did. I was able to overlook so many things that usually gets me totaly upset. I was upset, but not in a bad way.
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Hmmm. Maybe I'm missing something here, but what I'm wondering is why do you want to discuss these books so bad (in the author's own group, no less) if you didn't like the way they were written? I mean, isn't the main idea of a reread and discussion like this one to share the joy of reading and discussing the series?
Johanna wrote: "Josh wrote: "So...who else is Will likely to listen to?"Snow Patrol?"
Gin Blossoms
Josh wrote: "Linda ~ chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny ~ wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Do they listen to Lifehouse at some point further into the story?"Were they trying to fall asleep? Lifehouse is go..."
Heehee! I do like Lifehouse, but they do sound half-asleep on a lot of their songs. :P
Johanna wrote: "K. wrote: "Josh wrote: "I have to admit, I don't have a lot of patience with the idea that Jason was not "faithful" to a guy who told him the relationship was over. The very idea that he should hol..."It was never my intention to offend anyone here. I'm sorry if I did.
Thank you guys for the discussion and Josh for her answers. I'd say those gave me some peace of mind about this series.
Josh wrote: "maybe, maybe there's still a little hint of fear that Taylor will not be satisfied with him. That a steady relationship with a meat and potatoes guy will not be enough for someone as adventurous and experienced as Taylor. ..."oh, I LOVE this - perfect!
Josh wrote: "**Having said that, his choice in who to have sex with was, under the circumstances, ABYSMAL. :-D ..."
well since the choices on the island were extremely limited and Shipka was totally hot for Jason's body, I think Jason did pretty well...
plus it was awesome to be able to draw that parallel of Shipka giving his all trying to please Jason, and how Jason felt he was doing the same for Sam later (I really liked that, it emphasized Jason's lack of self confidence and inexperience with relationships).
Josh wrote: "who else is Will likely to listen to? ..."how about the Backstreet Boys (lol)
Mod
Because he loves Sam. A lot. And it might be the last time ever. I can see that not everyone would make that choice, but I think many would.
Mod
What I like about Taylor the most is that he knows who he loves. There is no doubt, there is no reluctance. Taylor is al..."
I do understand that cheating and love triangles are very unpopular with a lot of readers.
But there is absolutely zero cheating here. The relationship with Sam has ended. Jason is a free agent.
And there is no love triangle. Not only is Shipka dead--which is generally a hindrance to a romance--Jason acknowledges all through their encounter that there is no chance of a relationship.
So I think I'm still missing something.
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Uh oh. Now you've done it. Johanna loves these guys. :-D
It's okay, we're just having fun here.
Sometimes readers are reacting to a subtext they supply...and I think possibly that's happening here?
And also of course, in the case of Jason and Sam, readers know that Jason and Sam are the pairing, so any other people they hook up with are clearly just sexual partners and not love interests. So from that standpoint, from a meta standpoint, yes, I guess Jason is cheating. He is not being true to his designated partner in the romance plot. ;-)
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Snow Patrol?"
Gin Blossoms"
I bet he would like the Gin Blossoms.
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Were they trying to fall asleep? Li..."
HOW VERY DARE YOU!!??
Now I'm going to be listening for that! :-D
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No, no! We asked for your thoughts. And you shared them! It is a fact that everyone in this group does not agree 100% of the time. And sometimes we get pretty passionate about our disagreements. :-D No worries.
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..."
well since the choices on the island were extremely limited and Shipka was tota..."
Yeah, really. His other options would be a serial killer and a snooty possible crook.
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There are three side characters I feel bad about killing off: Claude, Varga, and Shipka. And of those, I feel the worst about poor Varga.
Trio wrote: "Josh wrote: "who else is Will likely to listen to? ..."how about the Backstreet Boys (lol)"
K. wrote: "or example somehow story of Adrien and Jake worked. It shouldn't have, but it did. I was able to overlook so many things that usually gets me totally upset. I was upset, but not in a bad way. "I do think this is part of the magic of the Adrien English series and I completely agree that things that would have been deal killers in other books, like I don't know, getting married to a woman when you're gay and in love with a guy, would not have been redeemable if it had not been handled so cleverly. I think part of that, though, is what Josh was saying about giving the characters room to grow.
Ironically, I don't see Jason as the one who needs to grow in Monet Murders. I think that's Sam.
But getting back to Will and Taylor, which character do you think needs to grow the most? Because I see it as something they both need to do -- or perhaps more precisely, they need to learn how to live together and be a couple, be completely out, be respectful and accommodating of each other's strengths and weaknesses, and prioritize their relationship. The series draws me in as a whole because you can see them making strides in that direction in some degree with each novella.
Johanna wrote: "I mean, isn't the main idea of a reread and discussion like this one to share the joy of reading and discussing the series? ."Yes, but I think it's fair to allow people to say what they dislike about a book, too. Also, a reader's perspective can change as they incorporate the views of others (or reject them). However, I feel your pain. Whenever I read reviews of Captive Prince that describe it as romanticizing rape or even being about "sexual slavery," I nearly lose my mind because they completely missed the entire point of the books -- which is the exact opposite.
So, kudos to authors for their patience in putting up with opinions like that...
Years and year ago, I met my spouse online in a discussion group and she attracted my attention because she took really contrarian positions from the rest of the group, and argued them very persuasively. It didn't take me long to realize that she was a genius, but I was also very impressed with her fearlessness. So, I guess I always have a soft spot for contrarians...
Josh wrote: "Not only is Shipka dead--which is generally a hindrance to a romance--"Ha! I'm glad necrophilia is not going to be a theme any time soon in your books, though I was a little concerned about that mummy.
Clary wrote: "The series draws me in as a whole because you can see them making strides in that direction in some degree with each novella. ..."I'm finally getting around to doing my re-read - finishing up Dangerous Ground - and you so nailed it Clary.
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Lucinda Williams?
Josh wrote: "Johanna wrote: "K. wrote: "Josh wrote: "I have to admit, I don't have a lot of patience with the idea that Jason was not "faithful" to a guy who told him the relationship was over. The very idea th..."I think that's the case. Everyone brings their own experience or lack of them with them, when reading a book.
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I've been looking at The Dangerous Ground series topic (March 2011-March 2016). The discussion starts in the Spring before Dead Run was published (Sept. 2011), which is where we are in this re-read. There are some interesting comments from Josh about this being her "popcorn series" and inspiration from The Professionals.
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“I’m. Not. Leaving. You. Got that?”
Taylor took a deep breath. “It’s okay. I know you’ll come back.”
To his surprise, Will’s hand closed on his shoulder and pulled him forward into a fleeting but adamant press of mouths.
“You’re right. I will. Always.”
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Yes, but I think it's fair to allow people to say wha..."
Disagreeing is okay. Saying also the things one dislikes is okay. (Although including something positive every now and then helps one's argument, I think.) However, to me, this felt more like an attack that went on and on and on, no matter what. Also, whenever we have a group member who takes part in book discussions only when she/he has negative things to say — that tends to raise my suspicion. If I'm wrong this time, well, that's obviously a good thing.
Clearly Josh has a thicker skin than I do. Which is totally admirable. :-)
But yeah, I agree with everything you say, Clary.
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I'm finally getting around to doing my re-read - fi..."
She did nail it, didn't she. :-)
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
Books mentioned in this topic
Kick Start (other topics)Dead Run (other topics)
Old Poison (other topics)
Lovers and Other Strangers (other topics)
Lovers and Other Strangers (other topics)
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