The Thorn Birds
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I think that Luke never wanted babies and never accepted Justine as a baby ,so i cannot see the interest to make him come back at Drogheda.And for Jussy,she never knew her father,she grew without him...he still was working on the canes and probably died in the plantations.What an ass! He isn't the most interesting character in the book.
Severina wrote: "I think that Luke never wanted babies and never accepted Justine as a baby ,so i cannot see the interest to make him come back at Drogheda.And for Jussy,she never knew her father,she grew without h..."Meggie was so unlucky to meet Luke lol
Yes Sandy .I think that Luke wasn't very good for Meggie but in a way he is no worse than Ralph .I can write that because i am mature now and i really think that Ralph and Luke were of the same kind..
Severina wrote: "Yes Sandy .I think that Luke wasn't very good for Meggie but in a way he is no worse than Ralph .I can write that because i am mature now and i really think that Ralph and Luke were of the same kind.."I totally agree, Severina, Ralph and Luke were the same, neither of them brought what Meggie deserved.
Meggie love one and married another one...ass!!! Although totally different people but same egotistical figures.She sure knows how to pick them - like a vicious circle that goes around and around....
Maria wrote: "Meggie love one and married another one...ass!!! Although totally different people but same egotistical figures.She sure knows how to pick them - like a vicious circle that goes around and around..."
Yes but i partly agree with you.Meggie loved selfish figures but she just repeated her mother' mistakes..before Meggie ,Fee did the same mistakes with a married man she loved when she was very young,a politician,and later with Paddy that she resented at first..Family secrets often keep repeating.
Severina wrote: "Yes Sandy .I think that Luke wasn't very good for Meggie but in a way he is no worse than Ralph .I can write that because i am mature now and i really think that Ralph and Luke were of the same kind.."I agree. Meggie herself says in the book that Ralph is no better than Luke, they are like two moths, one to canes and one to god. however she prefers Ralph, because at least he was always gentle to her and his love is what Meggie can understand better.
I wish there had been more. A three book series maybe. I loved it.
Severina wrote: "Yes but i partly agree with you.Meggie loved selfish figures but she just repeated her mother' mistakes..before Meggie ,Fee did the same mistakes with a married man she loved when she was very young,a politician,and later with Paddy that she resented at first..Family secrets often keep repeating. ..."That´s what i meant when the vicious circle notion: paterns tend to repeat themselves. If Fee was more attentive to Meggie she would have seen Luke for what he was and could, at least, forwarn her as to what might happen if she married him. But Fee was all too wrapped up in herself - also an selfish figure herself - to come out of her shell and protect her daughter.
Whatever happened to Luke, I wouldn't tell. Bad news he was, from the beginning.
Honestly I didn't like him.
Agree I must also, to the fact that all men are like him. They are always insecure about almost everything and tragically, they end up like Luke.
Paulinho wrote: "Whatever happened to Luke, I wouldn't tell. Bad news he was, from the beginning.
Honestly I didn't like him.
Agree I must also, to the fact that all men are like him. They are always insecure abou..."
I don't agree with you sorry.I didn't like Luke in the book neither because he was a fortune hunter and interested by Meggie's fortune but all men aren't this way.Men are not always insecure and women are sometimes very insecure too about everything.Plus Meggie chose to marry Luke to forget Ralph the love of her life and she never loved Luke from the beginning..so don't put the blame just on Luke.Meggie was a grown up woman and she wasn't a victim.They both were wrong in this marriage.
Severina, Meggie and Luke married each other on false pretenses and other goals than love for one another. As it was, it was always a fake marriage.Paulinho - not all men are insecure, as you stated. That is generalizing a tad too much.
I agree that I generalized too much, I therefore must acknowledge exceptions to the rule. Okay!A thought; Meggie loved Luke. Justine, a product of the marriage, was a symbol of that love or what do you say? I also apportion the biggest blame on Luke because he changed more than Meggie after the marriage.
I disagree with Maria when she says that the marriage was fake. Otherwise we would classify all marriages as fake. You know why, because people always pretend when they are dating. They are always wearing masks, just like Luke did.
Paulinho wrote: "I disagree with Maria when she says that the marriage was fake. Otherwise we would classify all marriages as fake. You know why, because people always pretend when they are dating. They are always wearing masks, just like Luke did. ..."The sense that i call it "fake" is that neither of them cared for the other person, or loved, like you said above: they didn´t love each other - Meggie loved the idea that she could eventually forget Ralph, by marrying Luke and Luke loved Meggie´s fortune and the fact that he could boss her around and not give her a penny to survive.
I don´t know what part of the book you read that lead you to believe that Meggie "loved" in the sense of real in love with Luke. And Meggie sure didn´t loved Justine - she was a product of Luke´s "business". There are several passages where you can see that she gets ever so estranged from her daughter.
And again, generalizing: If you, as you say "wear a mask", then the other one will be very surprised when your true colours surface. If. for instacnes, you pretend to like lasagna, but you really hate it; when you go on your 100th date, you are bound to have a natural reaction of rejection and then the other person will wonder "Well, what more have you lied to me about?" So, you see, it always pays not to pretend - it´s so much more relaxing! I highly recomend it.
So, no, not everybody pretends to be or like something they are not.
Well...Meggie didn't love Jussy at first when she was born but she maybe liked her and had regrets not to be able to give her the love she gave to Dane.I think that love is ambivalent sometimes..and in the movie,Meggie eventually loves Justine like her daughter..she wasn't able to give her affection before but she always knew that Justine was her daughter,the fruit of her marriage with Luke.In the book and in the movie it is clear that Meggie loved Dane too much but..did she really love her? I am not sure that Meggie's love towards dane was pure..she could see the image of Ralph in her son..but is this love? When you love someone,you love the person and not the image of resemblance of another beloved person.You gotta love the person for what she is.
I didn´t saw the movie, so i can´t see that. But she loved Dane EXACTLY because she could see Ralph in him - he was the product of her much desired love, that she never had in the full extent of it.But you said something very true: one has to love a person for who it is , and for who it resembles.
With her background I expected Justine to be an antagonist. I was surprised that she was so righteous. It didn't balance Dane's goodness.
Philip wrote: "With her background I expected Justine to be an antagonist. I was surprised that she was so righteous. It didn't balance Dane's goodness."Righteous?Justine was a rebel when she grew up and didn't want any children or husband and wanted to be a great actress..i think she is the most intelligent woman in the saga,and an antagonist..She's the very opposite of Meggie and Fee even if she resembles Fee in her temper.
I didn't detest Luke. He wasn't cut out for family but he wasn't a bad guy. I can't see Justine ever wanting to meet him though because she didn't like the idea of marriage and didn't like how her mother's marriage to Luke turned out. Also she never seemed to need anyone. She wanted her mother but didn't like that fact about herself, so why would she want to meet someone who would only disappoint her and make her hate herself even more.So I don't think it is important to know what happened to Luke. He played his part by siring the greatest character. Well done sir, and goodbye.
(Side note: I agree with Severina very much. She was certainly my favorite character.)
Thanks Iris.Justine was from far the brightest woman in the Cleary family.She was independent,determined to be a great actress and have success and she did everything to lead a good career. She is the only one who refused to stay at home and be a perfect housemaid.She's brilliant! And she eventually met a man who loved her sincerely.She broke the the female's sad destiny.Well done,jussy!
justine is also my favourite female character in the series Iris..She is bright ,smart and she 'll get what she deserves,a good husband..the poor girl always had to pay for her mother's mistake..
Paul Gaya Ochieng Simeon wrote: "Whatever happened to Luke, I wouldn't tell. Bad news he was, from the beginning.
Honestly I didn't like him.
Agree I must also, to the fact that all men are like him. They are always insecure abou..."
completely agree with you.
Severina wrote: "Paulinho wrote: "Whatever happened to Luke, I wouldn't tell. Bad news he was, from the beginning.
Honestly I didn't like him.
Agree I must also, to the fact that all men are like him. They are alw..."
Meggy was grown up, yes , but she didn't know any thing about men, she fell in love with Ralph because he was the first man he met and knew, and married Luke because she believed he was similar to Ralph , she Was a victim , for lacking of her motherhood love.
Doseofbella wrote: "I wish there had been more. A three book series maybe. I loved it."Agreed. Specially because the plot is divided in three parts, however, unaccordingly to their section titles, concerning Fee, Meggie and Justine.
Doseofbella wrote: "I wish there had been more. A three book series maybe. I loved it."Agreed. Specially because the plot is divided in three parts, however, unaccordingly to their section titles, concerning Fee, Meggie and Justine.
Paul Gaya Ochieng Simeon wrote: "Whatever happened to Luke, I wouldn't tell. Bad news he was, from the beginning.
Honestly I didn't like him.
Agree I must also, to the fact that all men are like him. They are always insecure abou..."
I'm sorry, but I can't help myself. Are you trying to talk like Master Yoda?!
Paul Gaya Ochieng Simeon wrote: "Whatever happened to Luke, I wouldn't tell. Bad news he was, from the beginning.
Honestly I didn't like him.
Agree I must also, to the fact that all men are like him. They are always insecure abou..."
I'm sorry, but I can't help myself. Are you trying to talk like Master Yoda?!
Who is master yoda? lol..sorry but i am french and i never heard about this Yoda ..Luke wasn't a loving man however..Ralph was a bit better than Luke.
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I know Meggie wouldn't forgive him, and there was no place for Luke on Drogheda.
Luke was last mentioned in the book that he wrote to Meggie and he was still working on the canes.
But how was he at the end of the story? When Meggie was 58 and Luke was even older?
And would Justine meet him or something? After all, Luke was her father.