Call Me by Your Name
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Question about the ending (spoiler inside)
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Michael
(last edited Apr 01, 2018 04:27PM)
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Apr 01, 2018 04:26PM
Both characters, Elio and Oliver, are complex. The story between both is basically told by Elio and not Oliver. Therefore, I am really puzzled by Oliver's motivation to marry. Both book and film seem not answer this question at the first place. Referring to this, I am not very impressed by Oliver. As a matter of fact, I consider him weak and, therefore, wish Elio better. Perhaps, Oliver regards Elio as an obstacle in his university "carrier". That Oliver has forgotten their phrase "call my by your name" (nine years later) does not speak very high of him either. The book is breath-taking, and so is the movie. Both are different works.
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Victor wrote: "Guys, is it normal to feel depressed after reading the book and watching the film????? I am so sad and still cant get over it till now. It is so so so good."Yes, I think so.
Michael,I doubt that Oliver forgot "call me by your name." He chooses not to say it. To his credit, once he decided to marry he sticks with that decision. He doesn't lead Elio on; under the circumstances to call Elio "by his name" would be cruel. Also to his credit Oliver doesn't deny that he was/is strongly attached to Elio.
None of this is a sign of weakness in my book.
Completely agree with you that the book is breath-taking, as is the movie. It's been years since I've read anything that shook me up like this book did, and I saw the film three times!
see page 231 as well as last sentence. So, i don't like Oliver.
Jimpanzee wrote: "I doubt that Oliver forgot "call me by your name." He chooses not to say it. To his credit, once he decided to marry he sticks with that decision. He doesn't lead Elio on; under the circu..."Yes - Oliver tells Elio towards the end of the book, 'I'm like you. I remember everything.' He didn't forget their name ritual, he doesn't say it because his wife and kids - not to mention Elio's parents - are within earshot. But he is so moved just by briefly talking to Elio on the phone there that he actually begins to cry. It would be a mistake, I believe, to think he's being heartless or trying to inflict pain in that scene. He's hurting too.
Mymymble wrote: "Aciman on the ending:https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&......"
Mymymble wrote: "Aciman on the ending:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&......"
I just assumed that Oliver doesn’t leave in the end. Elio thinks he will but that is just Elio. Oliver is more about deeds. He travels back to Italy to be with Elio where it all began 20 years ago. He had begged Eliot to meet his family in America but he refused. Instead Oliver travels alone to Italy, without his family and claims to remember everything. I think he has finally made the commitment and decided to stay. After all Oliver did ask Elio to ‘grow up’ in his note slipped under the bedroom door in Monet’s Berm. The age gap seemed unbridgeable at that time and it probably was. However, 20 years later Elio has grown up and Oliver realises this. He is after all his heart of heart’s. There is no way he is leaving.
Stuart I agree with you.i do think in the end they were together. Mymyamble finally saw shape of water.i think maybe part of James ivory issue with the lack of nudity was that hebthinks maybe if they had been more explicit with sex scene and nudity I think he thinks it would have got Oscar for best picture I know in article he said more realistic but I think more about Oscar for best picture and I think it would have.shape of water had nudity in front part.movie was good but if they had taken nudity out I would have still enjoyed it.but without it I don't think it would have won best picture.as for Oliver being weak I don't think he as weak.we don't get enough info on his family an his relationship.
I read new interview with Andre aciman .I don't think they have started to write sequel yet.he said they just talked ideals.he said they might weight couple of years to see how actors aged.i was hoping he was already writing it and would release as book first instead of after movie.in interview he seemed more like Oliver where you really don't know what he's thinking.he said he didn't understand why people felt down or depressed after reading cmbyn.and I wondered what his interpretation was.i read it as live found an what might have been.i read the vulture article so maybe he felt like they ended up together.of course he's older than I am am.so maybe at that age you look at things thru different lens.
I like to think that, even though Oliver may not have stayed at the end of the 20-year sequence (since Elio is recalling it during the 21st year), they have kept in pretty steady contact via e-mail since the end of the 15-year sequence. Elio even mentions that they arranged everything about the overnight visit by e-mail already. So I like to believe that they correspond a lot and are now good friends. To me, this leaves the door open to them still getting together in the future, perhaps once Oliver's youngest is out of college or even further down the line. The 20-year sequence is definitely not the end of their story so I can agree with the author's feeling that no one should be too sad. I just don't think he stayed for good at that particular visit.
It would be cool if the 21st year when he's remembering was there wedding day.its just shame it took so long for them to get together
A recent interview at this Site, Aciman discusses many things including Elio and Oliver, what the future holds for their relationship. http://kuow.org/post/once-one-s-lifet...
Marc wrote: "A recent interview at this Site, Aciman discusses many things including Elio and Oliver, what the future holds for their relationship. http://kuow.org/post/once-one-s-lifet......"Very interesting and insightful interview. It has been difficult for me to stop thinking about the ending. Perhaps Aciman is allowing us to create our own resolution ?
Stuart wrote: "Marc wrote: "A recent interview at this Site, Aciman discusses many things including Elio and Oliver, what the future holds for their relationship. http://kuow.org/post/once-one-s-lifet......"I found it interesting Aciman considered ending it 15 years after, the visit to Oliver's campus. But then he decided to have Oliver be the one to visit Elio as an end to the story, how that gave some weight to what was still there inside Oliver, for Elio. I've read the book and listened to the audiobook a number of times. It took me a while to be ready to move on from it. Listening to Aciman has helped.
I’ve listened to the audio book (can’t wait to read it in print) and saw the movie Sunday. I’ve had this feeling I can’t shake since, that a movie or book hasn’t left me with in a very long time, if ever. I’ve related both too and had my own introspection on my life and love that never quite let’s you go, especially the first. I also have very similar fond memories of places and summers when I was a Elio’s age. Lacking of both responsibility but trying to navigate life’s path and love.
I woke up after a few hours of sleep soaked in sweat and my mind searching for more, still left with the feeling that many of you expressed you’ve had after reading the book. “Ending of Call Me By Your Name” was my Google search and I stumbled across this thread.
All of your comments and interpretations, I think has helped process a lot of my questions and feelings. We will see in the morning.
Because of the extended scenes and the paths Elio’s mind took describing each interaction it leaves a lot to the reader to process. While many of their conversations and interactions throughout the summer where brief, the thought processes in both their minds was very deep and constantly trying to figure out the best way to respond to one another without saying everything. This theme follows the next 20 years of guarding themselves and being careful to a point with what they said to one another. Hanging on to very few vailed words spoken about their true feeling after all of these years with both of them wonder and finally retracing their own footsteps once more in Italy is probably more romantic and fulfilling of this work of art, I wonder, then had they never stopped their relationship. In a way this being more beautiful of a moment, should we all agree that this was forever this time when Oliver returned to Italy.
Just knowing or realizing that someone else has had the same feelings you did years later (when you yourself doubted them) than in the moment itself may seem like time wasted and maybe it it is, as Elio laments, however, the maturity that comes with that and time, may be what ultimately holds them together the remainder of there days or maybe as the author always intended.
I for one, as I’m sure many of you have (I can see this by the interpretations and thoughtful understanding of this piece has allowed me to my own thoughts into words) as teenagers loving yourself and knowing it all and later in life being able to truly love another, than you could then, along with a greater understanding of people/the world be very different experiences. Much as Elio was wise but lacked overall understanding of what he as going through at the time let alone understanding Oliver’s situation.
Elio’s relationship with Marcella came easy and didn’t require the vailed conversations and tip toeing around his and Oliver’s build up and relationship REQUIRED. This in and of itself regardless of liberal parents or the times still to this day makes homosexual relationships much harder to start let alone keep alive. There is always the normal internal questions - is he/she? Do they feel like I do? Are they out or closeted? Do their parents approve? Will this just be a secret? Etc.
My own relationships with women when I was younger came much easier as they were more natural (natural being following cultural norms at the time and not requiring weeks, months, decades to unearth themselves) than any relationship even today with men. My current partner and I dated briefly and it took five years apart (with brief interludes and correspondences in between) before we found each other again ready to continue physically and mentally in a better time all the whole our feelings still raged between us. Every so often I would make sure he didn’t forgot anything either via text, email, or meeting in person.
Even as I write these thoughts down I’ve made more sense of my own condition and drawing more similarities with these characters and my own. While the possibility exists they parted ways once more - being back in Italy and alone, Oliver would have been able to free himself as he did many years before and asked himself - if not now when?
A poem used in the movie Interstellar which Elio’s actor was in, I believe sums up Elio’s words and contemplation of each of their deaths and maybe I to now believe they went of into that night together.
“Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.”
Andrew f.thanks for your input.thats how I felt and have been feeling.i have seen movie 4 times and read the book same amount.and each time I am still left feeling the same haunted way.i can't even watch a clip of it on you tube without having same feeling.an the music from the movie brings me to tears.which when his father gives him the speech I find it very hard to remember past loves without the pain.in my relationship with woman it was not the case but I never felt the same way about women I loved them but not as deeply as with man.but I try to remember I think the norm relationship there is closure that don't necessarily come with same sex one when it end.cause usually in my case someone's not out.whst there family gonna say.so it ends not by really by your doing but something you feel you have no control over.then alot times there is no one to talk to about it.
Did anyone read latest article from Andre,it's on them.i guess that's name of publication.hes talking about letters he has reseaved very moving.
I did.. the ending of the article is very moving. Here is the link to the article for those who want to read it..... https://www.them.us/story/his-name-wa...
http://honisoit.com/2018/05/andre-aci...This recent interview with the author relates to the discussion in this thread. It illuminates both Call Me By Your Name and his most recent book, Enigma Variations.
There's more to the interview than this, but here's part of it:
Journalist -- "Could Elio and Oliver have ever been together? I can’t help but wonder, like many of his readers, if there could ever be a resolution.
Aciman -- “Part of me dreads the idea of them as a domestic couple…It’s not what Elio and Oliver are supposed to be.”
“But there is a return to the beginning,” he tells me, with a slight hesitation. “Oliver comes back to the house, the way he came the first time, and I have a feeling, I’ve always thought this and nobody agrees with me, that he’s come back to live there. Elio can’t believe that it’s happening and he assumes Oliver’s going to leave the next day. But I don’t think he will.” Perhaps even Aciman himself doesn’t know what their future could’ve been—the way he speaks of the topic suggests he doesn’t see much point in wondering."
Aciman's point is valid. I re-read the ending few times and it is possible that Oliver came to stay for a longer period than overnight as indicated. I mean why use the wording 'Last summer he finally did came back….' when Oliver had visited the villa again after the initial summer. Also, the mention of '….. we’d arranged everything by email already…..’ Do you do that if someone is coming for an overnight visit??!! Normally, the host would say ‘oh I put you in this room because I thought you would love to stay in it as a reminder of your stay here or something such like….’. Also, the tour of the home etc., is reminiscent of Oliver's first visit. To me it seemed like Oliver came back, maybe not for good, but he might have come back as a summer guest again (most probable – maybe the summer guests stopped after Elio’s father passed away a while back) but maybe for a longer stay than six weeks. After 20 years, his marriage might be dead or on the rocks or even divorced, kids grown up and he can be away from it all in Italy writing some research paper during summer.
Also, in my opinion when Elio went to visit Oliver in Oliver’s collage/university, the talk they had towards the end of that section had profound impact on Oliver – If it didn’t Oliver would be the most abnormal person ever. This is where Elio says to Oliver how Oliver is the only person Elio would want to say good by to when Elio dies and also the part where Elio says to Oliver, how Elio doesn’t want to receive a letter from Oliver’s son saying that Oliver had passed away. These two statements must have shown Oliver what he meant to Elio – therefore it is probable Oliver came back.
The last point is, the beginning of the narrative. So where exactly is Elio when he hears “Later” and the whole narrative starts? In my opinion maybe, they are within close range of each other, but not necessarily in Italy.
I found because of the narrative style, Aciman sometimes, not sure if on purpose misleads us or we should say Elio think’s the worst. We need to pick up the little clues in the passages and figure out what really is going on.
Excellent points, I’ve begun highlighting underlining clues in the book this last time through for that very reason. While I understand Acimen May have thought he was writing a book about a summer long “livewire” love affair, in the end or through the whole thing left breadcrumbs that can lead us to - it was never really over between them and in another time and/or place they would always end up together. I get his point about not wanting to imagine them as a couple, doing couples things, fighting, etc. however, the profoundness of their relationship/love transcended time like most do not. Probably why were all so still wrapped up in their story....
Jimpanzee wrote: "“But there is a return to the beginning,” he tells me, with a slight hesitation. “Oliver comes back to the house, the way he came the first time, and I have a feeling, I’ve always thought this and nobody agrees with me, that he’s come back to live there.""It is interesting that Aciman says 'nobody agrees with me' about the possibility of Oliver staying. Because it's not true! We've discussed at length around here the different negative and positive spins a reader can have on the book's ending, and there are plenty of readers out there who believe Oliver has come back for good, or at least that the possibility exists. Who has Aciman been talking to?
I have a feeling that Aciman is uncomfortable to some extent with all the questions/hopes/demands to clarify things from the novel, and the desire to have him make definitive statements about what this or that means. He has said he loves ambiguity and doesn't want to get bogged down in real-world sort of details. It does seem to be a more recent phenomenon for him, connected to the newer audience the book has found via the film. I can believe that it's as the interviewer says - that he doesn't quite see the point in speculating so much about what happened beyond the page - he told us what he wanted us to know, what he deemed necessary. If we want to drive ourselves crazy over it, that's our problem.:)
Romesh wrote: "Also, in my opinion when Elio went to visit Oliver in Oliver’s collage/university, the talk they had towards the end of that section had profound impact on Oliver"Excellent post, and I agree - I think their talk was very likely a watershed moment for Oliver, even if it wasn't apparent to Elio at the time. Oliver already said that seeing Elio that day was like waking from a coma - but he also got confirmation that indeed, Elio had loved him a great deal, and still does. He was apparently never quite as sure of Elio's love for him as he was of his own for Elio. There could be numerous reasons why it took a further five years for him to reconnect with Elio in person again - we don't have any idea what state his marriage is in, or what might be going on in his life otherwise, though we do know at least one of his sons is in college and both are grown, or nearly so, which is a big change. In any case, his visit seems to carry with it more import than simply dropping by for an overnight stay on his way elsewhere. I don't think that's the only reason - or maybe even the real reason - he's there.
I get the sense of frustration by Aciman when he's made comments like "it's just fiction" as if we need to let go at some point and not have everything answered about these characters. On the other hand, I expect he is happy that we want to debate it. After all scholars are still debating about what kind of character Odysseus was from Homer's 8th century BC epic poem.More and more I have the sense that here in the States, folks want everything folded neatly, wrapped up, and put away in a particular drawer; in other places not so much, that one might not really need such resolution in order to grasp the essence of Call Me By Your Name.
Whenever I despair that the Internet has devolved into pure stupidity, with people either talking past each other or gratuitously arguing, this thread pulls me back. I second Artgroupies's praise of Romesh's post, and agree that "their talk was very likely a watershed moment for Oliver". Adding to what Romesh wrote, at one point while they were having martinis, Oliver asked Elio if he'd do it (their six week relationship) all over again, to which Elio replies "in a second", or words to that effect. If Oliver was harboring doubts about the impact of their relationship on the then 17-year-old Elio, that might clear it up.
Another passage provides insight to what Oliver may be thinking. The morning after they first slept together, Elio bikes into town to be with Oliver after breakfast. I don't have the book in front of me right now, but Oliver says something like "this may be all fun and games for you, as it should be."
Marc wrote: "More and more I have the sense that here in the States, folks want everything folded neatly, wrapped up, and put away in a particular drawer." Yup.
Marc wrote: "More and more I have the sense that here in the States, folks want everything folded neatly, wrapped up, and put away in a particular drawer; in other places not so much, that one might not really need such resolution in order to grasp the essence of Call Me By Your Name"When it comes to this story, I'm not sure the desire to have that which was left ambiguous explained and defined is so much an American thing (after all, the Honisoit.com interview which sparked our recent comments was Australian), but perhaps a difference in the more literary audience that had previously been the fanbase for Aciman's novel and the younger, more pop culture-oriented audience that has found it since the film came to prominence. In the past, it seems like maybe readers were more willing to simply accept the ambiguities, even as they had their own takes on what they meant. But now, many newer readers want certainties from Aciman, and I definitely get the impression that while he appreciates that people are so interested in the book, he may be becoming a bit exasperated at readers seizing upon things that he himself doesn't think are that important, and chipping away at those ambiguities.
Andrew wrote: "I get his point about not wanting to imagine them as a couple, doing couples things, fighting, etc. however, the profoundness of their relationship/love transcended time like most do not. Probably why were all so still wrapped up in their story...."Aciman's reactions to his readers' preoccupations with what may have happened after the novel ended reminds me a bit of Annie Proulx and Brokeback Mountain. She eventually became frustrated with the fact that so many readers - helped by the film adaptation - viewed her work as first and foremost a love story, while she intended it primarily as a 'tale of destructive rural homophobia' which is illustrated through the central couple's relationship. She felt many people had misunderstood the story. And maybe Call Me By Your Name is headed that way too, in that the story's audience over time has and will continue to decide what it means to them...and that may not align exactly with Aciman's original intentions.
There has definitely been a recent shift in the audience for the novel. For several years following its publication, most of its readership seems to have been comprised of gay/bisexual men, and to a lesser extent, people who are just generally into literary fiction. It was definitely a cult book. The fact that it finally hit the NY Times bestseller list a decade after it came out tells you that it has now gone mainstream in a major way. And with that mainstreaming has come people with differing expectations. With regards to Aciman possibly being 'exasperated', I meant it in a good-natured way - just that he seems bemused by some of the things people (both interviewers and readers) repeatedly want him to discuss or clarify. I have read/watched many interviews with him and there is every indication that he is a truly gracious man. Annie Proulx can be a huge curmudgeoness to just about everybody, but I love her anyway, and she is as brilliant a writer as you'll find. My point though is that despite her intentions, she found that she was ultimately unable to control how people reacted to her story, or what they took from it, the way in which it spoke to them. I think Aciman too is also experiencing some of that now. Of course, that's the case with any work of art...once it's out there, people will take from it what they will.
Could someone explain to me the peach scene where he eats the peach an don't say you didn't know.what exactly did he mean.an I do want them to end up together but I have read and listened to anciman talking about his writing.he likes ambiguity.in one interview he was talking about when he left Egypt an was at a part in paris.an he went on to say the party was boring and he was sitting by a window and he started to miss being back in egypt.then he realized he really did miss egypt it was that feeling before he left Egypt to go to Paris an he said it was in those moments he liked to write about that that was where he was a good writer .he said he wasn't interested in blue collar lives.which to me me meant he wasn't interested in every day lives.will finish my thought in little bit.my grown son just came by
The quote "Whatever happens between us, Elio, I just want you to know. Don't ever say you didn't know" is very ambiguous but in writing this is allowed, I think..... I don't know if you can actually say something like this in a conversation and get away with it.In my opinion I felt Oliver is saying hey look, this is how much I feel about you or have feelings for your or like you etc. Remember, in this narrative Aciman kept out the word "love". I felt Oliver was more in tune with what is going on and understood Elio. Elio has this complex 'he likes me' / 'he likes me not' debate going in his head. So this demonstrates to Elio for sure how Oliver felt about him. I think Aciman is trying to communicate the fact that one can know how another feels by their actions.
I saw an interview where Aciman was talking about what you describe about Egypt/Paris. I know what he was talking about but it is very difficult to describe. There is certain amount of excitement of wanting something and waiting for it is never regain once you achieve it.
Yes I agree with both points. also I was going to point out the ending in the movie and the same time frame in the book.when Oliver tells him he's getting married in the movie ,elio sits by the fireplace and gets emotional,very hard for me to watch.in the book later that same evening Oliver goes to his room and is mad.but then his inner monologue is I could have slept with him again that night if I pressed him cause something about he had did it before,anyway my point is Oliver tells him he can't an even though elio feels like he could get him too.then what is stopping elio.in the movie the seen show the impact or love,but maybe the book shows elios not sure of the impact or he himself is sleeping with marza again anyway.it makes more sense at the end where there still coming to terms with impact whereas if the move scene had been in the book there would have been no question.to me the 15 years in between the meetings an the time within the 5 years haunts me.i feel like Oliver was happy with his wife and kids to a degree but we don't know enough of elios life so that his dad's talk with him anguidance he couldn't make long term commitment with anyone or is that how he paid for the initial relationship with elio.anciman always says Oliver was the egnima but to me elio was cause we don't know enough of his life ,hes not reliable an we never know that much about his life at times.like at the end where he is remembers Oliver's visit the year before.was it because Oliver in that time moved there to stay.did Oliver die an he's rembering the last time he saw him.anciman likes leaving it like that but I would have an still want a happy ending.and I think part of it's due to my age.53.i was elios age in 83.an most people coming up then that were gay or questioning especially with aids did not get happy ending it was a lot of sorry.an I think a lot of younger people identified with love Simon more.also another question when elio goes to the college to see Oliver he notices sun spots on his hands did he think it was aids or just acimans symbol of a summers past when they were young.because elio was sad when he saw it.thanks
Hey Scott.... Lot of your points you mentioned have already been discussed so I would ask you to check those comments out as they go into lot of details which will help you a lot.Novel and cinema are different mediums so they impact us differently. However, in my opinion Aciman is trying to convey this simple message: despite what what paths are taken, what we feel for each other, if it is true, doesn't change. You may not end up with that special person and live a happily ever after, but hey when you re-connect 10, 20 or 30 years latter, there is still something there. It might be at different levels and degrees but it is still there.
Romesh, thanks for posting the link to the article in Them, a while back. Just saw it.
Mymymble wrote: "Scott wrote: "I agree I also liked the happy ending on Maurice I wander if James had his way if the ending would have been different.and I don't understand why there s push back on nudity."It's ha..."
The book gives more hints about Oliver's doubts and hesitations than the movie does. He would spend hours at the rock by the beach considering their whole situation. The fact that he came back to the villa to tell Elio in person of his decision to marry also shows him as being more caring than in the movie. In the book, he says the relationship had been on and off for a couple of years. Somebody in here suggested it may have been a pre-arranged marriage. In the book, Oliver vindicates himself in the end by showing how deeply he cared and how he does remember 'everything.'
Mymymble wrote: "Lolz I was just talking to someone called Scott on the GRR Martin page. He was going on about atom feeds, rhs sites and urls and suddenly appears to be talking about weddings.I would be happy with..."
Really enjoyed the interview, especially that he points out that at their last meeting, at the villa, there is no reason for Oliver to leave. Also, he discusses the father's speech and points out how the father admits to having similar sexual inclinations. I had not seen that discussed anywhere and had wondered if I was making it up somehow.
Avidreader wrote: "Mymymble wrote: "Scott wrote: "I agree I also liked the happy ending on Maurice I wander if James had his way if the ending would have been different.and I don't understand why there s push back on..."I agree Avidreader. The fact that Oliver talks to Elio in person about getting married says a lot about Oliver's Character, which is lost in the movie. The fact that we, the reader, only find out in the middle of the book that Oliver really spends a lot of time on the rock thinking about things - which shows Oliver really contemplated before giving into his new found relationship. The way the narrative is told and the way Aciman writes, Oliver's personality/character is revealed all over the narrative in small chunks.
Avidreader wrote: "Mymymble wrote: "Lolz I was just talking to someone called Scott on the GRR Martin page. He was going on about atom feeds, rhs sites and urls and suddenly appears to be talking about weddings.I wo..."
In regard to Elio's father's speech, it is open to interpretation in my opinion. The father's says something like..I had an opportunity to have something like what you had... He could be referring to the type of friendship/relationship with a man or a woman.
Romesh wrote: "Avidreader wrote: "Mymymble wrote: "Lolz I was just talking to someone called Scott on the GRR Martin page. He was going on about atom feeds, rhs sites and urls and suddenly appears to be talking a..."Romesh: But Aciman in the interview says it was courageous of the father to admit that he had been attracted to men. It is not clear if the relation with his wife changed after that. When Oliver comes to the villa, he has a gift for the mother, and Elio tells Oliver that his mother will need to know what it is. That she now suspects everyone. Not clear on what that meant. Also, in the previous meeting at the college in New England, Elio says that Oliver seems to know about his parents, but he does not say what. Also when the two of them discuss a novel talking about a love story that repeats itself through generations, and Oliver jokes that he wouldn't want his children in bed with Elio, Elio agrees but says he doesn't know about their fathers. So it seems to me that there are enough clues to imply that a few things that we don't know of have happened in that front.
Avidreader wrote: "Romesh wrote: "Avidreader wrote: "Mymymble wrote: "Lolz I was just talking to someone called Scott on the GRR Martin page. He was going on about atom feeds, rhs sites and urls and suddenly appears ..."Thanks for that info Avidreader. I missed that interview. In regard to Elio's mother's speciousness, Aciman in an interview, when grilled by a report mentioned that speciousness is the first stage of dementia. I think between 15 and 20 years there has been email communication between Elio and Oliver since Oliver knew about Elio's parents etc.
The book you are referring to is called "The Well-Beloved" by Thomas Hardy. The whole conversation around this book is open to interpretation as well.
Scott wrote: "Thanks enjoy all the input"I'm relieved to see that I was not the only one depressed after seeing the movie. I think it left me with a lot of sadness for seeing lost opportunities. In 1983, I was half the way between Elio's and Oliver's age. The movie makes you revisit the choices you have made in life. Now after reading the book, some interviews and the comments here, I'm feeling better with the idea that although it takes them 20 years, they may finally be able to reunite and have a happy ending.
Avidreader wrote: "Scott wrote: "Thanks enjoy all the input"I'm relieved to see that I was not the only one depressed after seeing the movie. I think it left me with a lot of sadness for seeing lost opportunities. ..."
Same here. And I've read the book twice, listened to the audiobook 3 times, or more, and saw the movie 6 times! The movie, definitely, made me feel more sad than the book... I think that Aciman left the end open in the book, and I can totally see them together after all those years. One more thing, I was against the movie's sequel at first, but not now. Now I can't wait!
Galatea wrote: "Avidreader wrote: "Scott wrote: "Thanks enjoy all the input"I'm relieved to see that I was not the only one depressed after seeing the movie. I think it left me with a lot of sadness for seeing l..."
Galatea: I saw the movie twice in one week and bought the book and read it once. Now I'm going back to particular sections. Revisiting my choices...
Mymymble wrote: "Galatea wrote: "Avidreader wrote: "Scott wrote: "Thanks enjoy all the input"I'm relieved to see that I was not the only one depressed after seeing the movie. I think it left me with a lot of sadn..."
Mymymble: Enigma Variations sounds just as captivating. However, I will need time to feel I am done with CBYN.
In their encounter at the university in New England, Oliver tells Elio that he is his cor cordium, his heart of hearts. 'I've never said anything truer in my life to anyone.' I do believe that this meeting marks the beginning of their getting back together. Elio first tells Oliver that he still has feelings for him. Later, Elio says that to him seeing Oliver again is like waking up from a coma and Oliver says he has been living a parallel life. The book is very profound. It leaves a lot of things unsaid. Here is a poem entitled Cor Cordium:BY ALGERNON CHARLES SWINBURNE
O heart of hearts, the chalice of love's fire,
Hid round with flowers and all the bounty of bloom;
O wonderful and perfect heart, for whom
The lyrist liberty made life a lyre;
O heavenly heart, at whose most dear desire
Dead love, living and singing, cleft his tomb,
And with him risen and regent in death's room
All day thy choral pulses rang full choir;
O heart whose beating blood was running song,
O sole thing sweeter than thine own songs were,
Help us for thy free love's sake to be free,
True for thy truth's sake, for thy strength's sake strong,
Till very liberty make clean and fair
The nursing earth as the sepulchral sea.
And here is a more factual and less poetic explanation:
We are here referring to the absolute core of a person’s affective and desiderative and intentional being. The heart of hearts is the center in which what most need and want and hope to do or be in the world lives.
The metaphor here is center/periphery, innermost/outermost: it prioritizes perceived goods by their “centrality” within the person. That is one metaphor among many.
If you made a truly honest list of your wants and needs — hierarchy represented vertically — what’s at the top of the list of wants, desires, intentions would be the same as what’s in your heart of hearts.
With all this, they say good-bye to each other this time being fully aware that they are still very much in love with each other.
What do you folks make of this assertion from the last pages of the book, particularly the second sentence? "We had found the stars, you and I. And this is given once only."
Call Me By Your Name may be Aciman's extended illustration of this idea, but that's not what I'm asking. Do YOU think this accurately reflects the human condition -- "this is given once only"? Assuming you have more mileage than Elio at the start of the book, does it ring true to life?
I honestly don't know what to make of that idea. The stars... once only. Really?
Jimpanzee wrote: "What do you folks make of this assertion from the last pages of the book, particularly the second sentence? "We had found the stars, you and I. And this is given once only."
Call Me By Your Name..."
These are my five cents on your question, Jimpanzee: I think we fall in love a number of times over the course of our lives. But as we age, it may happen at times when we are in a committed relationship and we may choose not to pursue things. Thus, we always remember the first experiences as the most meaningful and always wonder what if.
Alex wrote: "I think their relationship can't precede due to outside circumstances, mostly on Oliver's part. Oliver chose a simpler life with a wife and his occupation as a professor. Elio was always ready and ..."You have wonderful insight. Lucky, the person, you love.
Robin: Thanks! To quote Oliver, that's the kindest thing anyone has said to me in a long time.
Since watching Call Me By Your Name for the second time, I've looked up the lyrics of Mystery of Love and Visions of Gideon, listened to the whole soundtrack, and read about Heraclitus and also about Hephaestion and Alexander -- mentioned in Visions of Gideon. I've also re-read the last part of the book and read about the meaning of cor cordium, heart of hearts. I think I'm ready to watch it for a third time. I feel that there are so many layers of meaning that I'm discovering them slowly. I think that at the end, Elio is reminiscing about the time when they met one year earlier at the villa and got back together again, after 20 years. One more fact that reinforces this theory is how he talks about the 'blank years,' implying that this was a phase that is now over. I really hope that the sequel does have a happy ending. Couldn't possibly put up with any more heartbreak.
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