Call Me by Your Name
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Question about the ending (spoiler inside)
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Victor
(last edited Jan 30, 2018 01:53AM)
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Jan 30, 2018 01:52AM
Oliver's a professional. hahhaha. That was the way I call him because, he was an overachiever and by the time he had family, he did not turn his back on his responsibility.
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After 15 years, Oliver and Elio saw each other in the States and had a drink at the hotel bar where they talked about things. The another five years- 20 years in total, Oliver went back to the Villa-in Elio's house and Elio's Father has died already. You have to read the book or listen to the full book audio.
Marc wrote: "Anna (the anonanimal) wrote: "I just finished this book and absolutely adored it. One question that I am left with is this: throughout the story there seems to be an implicit understanding between ..."Marc, in what part is when Elio wanted to have threesome with a girl then Oliver did not want it. Please guys tell me. Seemed like my eyes havent walked through that page. Im sorry
Aciman, in short, has given us pain. He just let Elio narrates. hahahha. I love Aciman. He is effective.
I think, Elio just did not care about everything, only and only that he loved Oliver- as what a young mind could think. But Oliver was mature to think deeply about the possible future and held back. However, Oliver did not resist, he gave in then. He showed, even not his best, because of some reasons, at least he knew in himself that he loved Elio. We are not Oliver nor Elio but it was obvious. I think if Aciman just wrote Oliver's POV, it might be clearer but he made the love obvious still.
Victor wrote: "“And on that evening when we grow older still we'll speak about these two young men as though they were two strangers we met on the train and whom we admire and want to help along. And we'll want t..."Isn't Elio admitting he'll never be too old to care? Is it a long winded rebuttal to Oliver's argument, how Elio will only visit when too old to care. I sent you a more long winded response Victor.
Victor wrote: "Marc wrote: "Anna (the anonanimal) wrote: "I just finished this book and absolutely adored it. One question that I am left with is this: throughout the story there seems to be an implicit understan..."Victor, It was during Ghost Spots, the story briefly touched on Rome, Oliver's fond memory of his beloved Elio.
Marc wrote: "Victor wrote: "“And on that evening when we grow older still we'll speak about these two young men as though they were two strangers we met on the train and whom we admire and want to help along. A..."Thank you Dear! and also about the threesome, i dont think it was explained in the book because they just saw a girl stranger and Elio invited her but they just sat altogether. No certain meaning that it would happen. :)
Guys, can anyone please explain to me what this question of oliver to elio, means?“Would you start again if you could?” I looked at him. “Why are you asking?” “Because. Just answer.” “Would I start again if I could? In a second. But I’ve had two of these, and I’m about to order a third.” He smiled. It was obviously my turn to ask the same question, but I didn’t want to embarrass him. This was my favorite Oliver: the one who thought exactly like me."
Is he asking elio if maybe elio is willing to start again his life by moving on, or is it to start again to have a relatio ship with oliver, not sure. i also coulnt understand how elio answers the question. thanks so much guys. i love reading all of your insights above by the way.
Jade wrote: "Guys, can anyone please explain to me what this question of oliver to elio, means?“Would you start again if you could?” I looked at him. “Why are you asking?” “Because. Just answer.” “Would I star..."
I am not sure how to answer this too, but I was thinking about the relationship. The book is really ambiguous. I hope somewhat would clear this.
Victor wrote: "Marc wrote: "Victor wrote: "“And on that evening when we grow older still we'll speak about these two young men as though they were two strangers we met on the train and whom we admire and want to ..."Nothing is certain in Elio's head is it? :-) Yet this is what Oliver remembered, Elio wanting to take the girl to their room. Maybe they would go there and play the guitar. You are correct. We don't know for sure.
Victor wrote: "Marc wrote: "Victor wrote: "“And on that evening when we grow older still we'll speak about these two young men as though they were two strangers we met on the train and whom we admire and want to ..."I agree with Victor, that part is confusing. I need to go read it again. What are the possibilities for the meaning? Choosing to act on their desire in Italy? Choosing to have another round of drinks? Choosing to stop at the bar?
I am just confused with this part but all I can see is REGRET more in Oliver's side. But you cant blame him, how sad! Society was judgmental, even closed minded parents thought being gay was a mental illness. Though we know that Elio was badly broken, but so was Oliver. Being inlove even in a short time would never be a mistake. It was never a mistake to love someone you were not sure to be with you forever, because you were feeling that way. For Oliver, I think, it was not his mistake to fell for Elio, though he knew he would leave and not be sure to come back because, he was just human who could not stop what was flaming inside. The story was realistic. Very. Though it's just a fiction but still, it would hook us. Though Elio would assume something with Oliver and his assumptions might be unreliable but still the way we put ourselves in Oliver's shoes would be enough to understand him and know him. We could also use our instincts as humans to read Oliver from Elio's assumption and Even Elio knew that- that Oliver still has not moved on. It was not clear as what Aciman had written , well, because it was all Elio's observation and POV but I know that if Oliver was given the chance to explain, it would be worth it and we would understand him but he was just fictional. We also could not blame Elio because it was the way he saw everything. Aciman used Elio and Oliver to hurt us but also to give us the wake to reality of life.
Even Elio, after 15 years, admitted to Oliver that his best moment was when He kissed him in Rome, the billowy, and he also said he did not want to see Oliver's family because he did not want to feel bad about them coz (he still loved Oliver) Only after 20 years that he did not open everything up to Oliver- when he came back to the Villa,because he assumed Oliver has already moved on but Elio was wrong, Oliver, as we know, wasnt able to move on. He sill loved him.
And about outside the post office, Oliver liked Elio already but what was it that he couldn't figure out and made him feel scared-something more than just a 17 year old-fun-and-game? What was it? Was it an excuse but he knew he loved him already? I know he liked him even from the start but what was that? He looked at the ''sex'' more than fun and games because Elio was important to him but why did he say he couldn't figure out what he felt?
Marc wrote: ".. I agree with Victor, that part is confusing. I need to go read it again. What are the possibilities for the meaning? Choosing to act on their desire in Italy? Choosing to have another round of drinks? Choosing to stop at the bar? ."Hi marc. May i ask if this response is for my question ive posted above, regarding olivers question to elio on starting again
Jade wrote: "Marc wrote: ".. I agree with Victor, that part is confusing. I need to go read it again. What are the possibilities for the meaning? Choosing to act on their desire in Italy? Choosing to have anoth..."Jade, Marc is not sure too, He will read it again. I am also looking for explanation and He too. Hopefully, we can get to you ASAP.
Victor wrote: "Jade, Marc is not sure too, He will read it again. I am also looking for explanation and He too. Hopefully, we can get to you ASAP. ..."Alright thanks i thought he was answering to some of your comments. Haha. Looking forward to his answer. Thanks guys
Jade wrote: "Victor wrote: "Jade, Marc is not sure too, He will read it again. I am also looking for explanation and He too. Hopefully, we can get to you ASAP. ..."Alright thanks i thought he was answering to..."
The book really has more than one interpretation as it was written to be ambiguous.
And also about the post office when Oliver said to Elio, '' for you, however, you think of it still fun and games ,which it should be. For me it's something else I haven't figured out and the fact that I can't scares me'' Please explain this to me guys, I have already had something in my mind. Was it about serious consequences because this was in the post office when Oliver said to Elio, '' I dont want either of us to pay for this''. Maybe he was overthinking too much about consequences then he said that he couldn't figure it out.
Please help guys.
Jade wrote: "Marc wrote: ".. I agree with Victor, that part is confusing. I need to go read it again. What are the possibilities for the meaning? Choosing to act on their desire in Italy? Choosing to have anoth..."Hi Jade, Yes. I was answering you, because I had the same question. What exactly was the meaning of "start again". Do you think it means how they started talking about Italy, whether they should have started bringing it up? Or...? What do you think Jade? Might even mean how they originally acted on their desire in Italy. I don't know.
Marc wrote: "Jade wrote: "Marc wrote: ".. I agree with Victor, that part is confusing. I need to go read it again. What are the possibilities for the meaning? Choosing to act on their desire in Italy? Choosing ..."DEAR Marc, I was thinking about Italy and regrets.
Victor, Yet in that same sequence was discussed how framing Italy with regrets would break their hearts. Elio was good at denying his feelings in that way. So I don't know if he would deliberately air his regrets.
Marc wrote: "Victor, Yet in that same sequence was discussed how framing Italy with regrets would break their hearts. Elio was good at denying his feelings in that way. So I don't know if he would deliberately ..."Yes, You are right, which meant, Oliver could read his mind that he could not answer the question he asked him. And he did not want to ask him the same because Elio could read Oliver's mind too and he did not want to start bringing up the past.
Yet, a character flaw Aciman revisits over and over in this book and Enigma variations is trying to figure out what's going on in someone else's head. It never turns out well.
Marc wrote: "Yet, a character flaw Aciman revisits over and over in this book and Enigma variations is trying to figure out what's going on in someone else's head. It never turns out well."Yeah right Dear. Even some conversations are very hard to understand. Maybe ''starting back again'' conversation is about in Italy and regret but Elio's answer was '' I have these two...I am about to order third. Maybe he diverted his answer into his drinks and did not ask Oliver that question back because he did not want to embarrass him. But why embarrass????
Mymymble wrote: "I though Elio was afraid. Not to reveal himself but of what might follow.Hello by the way. This is a great thread."
Hi Mymymble,
Yes! That is a key theme of this book, how fear interrupts desire. I think you've hit on it.
Mymymble wrote: "I though Elio was afraid. Not to reveal himself but of what might follow.Hello by the way. This is a great thread."
You mean Elio was afraid to answer the question ''start again'' directly? and Why did he think Oliver might be embarrassed after he asked that to Oliver?
Hi Mymymble I'm not connecting these comments.
That part about "not reveal himself". Reveal himself about......?
Also "the answer would be no". The answer to.....?
The one thing I'm pretty sure about is Elio was very drunk in Rome and wanted to share that girl back in their room.
Alex wrote: "I think their relationship can't precede due to outside circumstances, mostly on Oliver's part. Oliver chose a simpler life with a wife and his occupation as a professor. Elio was always ready and ..."Thank you so much for this Alex. I needed that closure you helped give me to the book.
Mymymble wrote: "Mymymble wrote: "Mymymble wrote: "Victor wrote: "Mymymble wrote: "I though Elio was afraid. Not to reveal himself but of what might follow.Hello by the way. This is a great thread."
You mean Elio..."
I think you have a point. The way Oliver asked that showed he still had feelings for Elio. But I think Elio hasnt totally forgotten Oliver for years and we just dont know if he had really relationships in 20 years. If yes then still, it would not make him forget Oliver totally. Just at times, ad you said and I so agree. In Elio's mind, he didnt have to answer because still, got no chance to start again so. He did not want to ask that to Oliver because he didnt want Oliver to make a choice to and embarrass himself.
It has been said before that you should not be here if you have not seen the movie or even read the book. The movie will be released in the next week where I live, and due to the hype around Oscar nominations I have not been able to stay away from the spoilers and the videos on Youtube. I have a developed a completely different perspective on how the movie was directed. It has been mentioned that the two stars were given the opportunity to get to know each other before shooting started. It is also mentioned that there is chemistry between them and they themselves have commented on the fact that they had never been in the position to have such a close relationship with their "dance partner" before.
Is this not another brilliant move from the director? We know that he intends to do follow up movies. The two actors are the same people in real life, if you exclude the sexuality issue. Armie Hammer, a father of two and Timothée Chalamet, the young artistic guy that shows emotion openly and has the ability to articulate his experiences very well.
Clearly there is a bond between them and I am sure they will work on their friendship and stay close for a long time. How brilliant would that be if they can return with the same magic that you can see in even the youtube videos? If this is the case, I feel that we do not even have a clue how brilliant Luca Guadagnino really is. I read in an article that the director and Andre Aciman are meeting to discuss plot for the sequal. These actors were chosen for more than just reading the script. I can definitely see that he is going to make this movie journey one that movie lovers everywhere will never forget. In many instances, the actors get all the praise, but this director is truely brilliant...
Mymymble, Perhaps that quote tells us not to worry too much, that Elio did not remain stuck. Yet we know how and why his story of a man named Oliver will always hold remarkable meaning to him.The whole idea of the unreliable narrator to me just means how we deal with Elio's emotions, that they have effected his thinking and sometimes his actions. That's our job to see through that.
The quote still says, Oliver still matters. That Oliver had a great impact to him as a human. He had forgotten Oliver for a while but still, life without him was still incomplete. Without the Oliver-, with thinking about those who eclipsed him for a while, his life was still not the same as Oliver did to it. . It didn't matter whom he was with, after Oliver- Just Oliver had mattered.
The quote Elio said was a total opposite to what he felt. Trying to cover up what he felt.
Just finished the book and I understand why Oliver chose to live a simpler life but at the end why not be with Elio? His kids are grown up being gay isn't a stigma why not be with your love and enjoy the rest of your years and I know they will keep seeing each other and it might happen one day but it makes me sad that Elio kind of lived a life on hold in a sense waiting for Oliver. Sorry for the rumbling
Victor wrote: "The quote Elio said was a total opposite to what he felt. Trying to cover up what he felt." That was part of his approach, to cover up what he felt at times. Like when he felt his throat would explode so he dove under the water. Or when Vimini told Elio how Oliver liked him more, which was difficult to fathom for Elio, yet a consequence of covering his feelings with contrary actions.
Marc wrote: "Victor wrote: "The quote Elio said was a total opposite to what he felt. Trying to cover up what he felt." That was part of his approach, to cover up what he felt at times. Like when he felt his th..."I thought, it was her Mum who told him, Oliver liked him more.
It was in the film that Elio's mother told him that Oliver liked him more. In the book, it was Vimini.
Oh yes, My mistake. It was Vimini in the book.
I didn't get how Elio's father died. any help?
Elio said something like Oliver should tell about his present because his mother trusted no one after his father's death. It's just a thought.
Maybe he received something from someone and that caused the mishap. And this someone could be that 'friend' his father vaguely mentioned while discussing Oliver after Elio's Rome trip.
I don't know I thought about Oliver's son delivering stuff to Elio after Oliver's death and replaced Elio with Elio's dad and the parcel with something from that special man.
Mandira wrote: "Elio said something like Oliver should tell about his present because his mother trusted no one after his father's death. It's just a thought.
Maybe he received something from someone and that ca..."
I never thought you could gather these thoughts of yours, I just dont understand fully. Im sorry. I just dont like myself reacting too much to new little discoveries in the story, after reading, I thought I know all, but tiny by tiny, there are still small details missed possibly.
Victor wrote: "“At one hundred, surely you learn to overcome loss and grief—or do they hound you till the bitter end?” Is it in Piazzetta and who said this?"i feel this 100%
Aciman admits he wrote the book quickly so perhaps he is giving a clue by saying so that there are loose ends.
After reading the book a couple of times, I have a theory I feel comfortable with. I could not accept an unhappy end when we have two people who obviously still feel a lot of affection for each other, so I kept looking for an alternative outcome. Aciman’s surprise about the general interpretation helped as well. During the book I had the feeling that both Elio and Oliver had doubts about the depth and sincerity of the feelings of the other.
Why would Oliver have doubts (from Oliver’s point of view):
1. Elio is sleeping with Marzia during their summer romance. I get the vibe that Oliver cared about it but held himself back. When Elio comes back from Marzia the day of the peach scene, Oliver says he thought Elio did not want it/him any more. The only thing that could have made him think so is Elio going to Marzia because they already had sex earlier that day.
2. After their breakup, Elio keeps his distance and never initiates contact again. He does not grovel, does not beg, does not chase. He goes angry and then cold turkey for many many years.
3. On the back of the postcard, there is a message from a guy who must have had feelings for Elio. Maybe it was all a game for Elio and Oliver was not the first one.
4. Oliver knows that Elio lives close to him at a point in his life without letting him know.
5. When Oliver visits the house with his family, Elio cannot figure out who the special visitor is. (He is pretending but Oliver does not know that.)
Why would Elio have doubts (from Elio’s point of view):
1. Elio wonders if Oliver slept around during the summer.
2. Oliver marries someone else which is quite an unequivocal rejection.
3. Elio knows nothing about Oliver’s life outside of the house. Not even of the other people he meets during the summer.
4. Oliver has chosen to keep it to himself that he is in a relationship with someone back home.
There is no reason for Elio or Oliver to think that the other person has been agonizing over them years after.
Everything changes when Elio goes to Oliver’s university and confesses his love. Fifteen years later. Oliver essentially does the same. So, after Oliver reveals that Elio is his “cor cordium,” both of them become fully aware of the reality of their situation. No misunderstandings, no doubts, no guesses. This is also why Elio is overcome by an enormous sorrow in that scene.
Why it takes Oliver five years to take the next step, I do not know. Let’s say he needs the time to sort his life and figure out what he wants to do now that he knows about Elio’s feelings.
But Oliver going to the house alone (and communicating with Elio about it per email beforehand), is the result of the clarity they now both have. In the final scene in the car, they seem to be flirting and Oliver seems very comfortable being next to Elio. This can only mean that he is back to give this relationship a try.
What do you all think? Am I simply seeing what I want to see? :-)
I am sorry that I add my thought so late, because I think that the discussion here has already have come to an end. But I have already finished the book and also saw the movie and I can't get it out of my mind. So I need to write/speak about it and specially about the "what could be".I think the movie give a lot more choices "how it could be", then the book. In the Movie anything can happen afterwards, they can decide that it was only a "summer-love", they can fight for it or they can be life a "parallel life".
But I think this thought about the Book quite interesting:
Elio and Oliver are the same person and as by everyone of us there are always to parts in personality. While Oliver is the thoughtful and realistic part, is Elio the naïve part which always listen to his heart.
Elio and Oliver did never really mention how their relationship could look like. Specially in this point of time in human history they lived. Because of this after their summer together they both take their own decisions, while Elio was still naïve and full of hope he thought that they will end up together one day, without really having a clue about the “how it could be”. While Oliver had known that they will not get a chance to live an open and happy live together and was also frightened to give it a try (and maybe fail with it and stay there alone as an openly gay man). That's why he has decided to get married with a woman and getting kids.
In the “blank years” both of them accept things and memories of this summer changed. With the years they told themselves that the feelings they had for each other this summer, were only dedicated to the atmosphere in this summer and that they are not real “soulmates” – surely to protect their selves with this. But they started to believe it. Clearly, nevertheless they do both remember these days (specially in rome) with love and they ask their selves "what had could be".
But I do not think that they are completely in love with each other over all this years. If this would have been, then they would have been unhappy and depressed all the years – and to be honest - even in this point of history - they would have come to a point in 15 years where they just wrote a letter to the other one and talk about the real feeling or try to get a deeper friendship, because you want this person in your live. No human can be quite so long.
BUT I also think that the things have changed after they have met 15 years later and had some drinks.
In their kind of "talking" they were really honest to each other. Oliver told him about the postcard, which shows that he has always think back to this summer. And Elio told him that he wants to talk to him before he will die, to complete things. I think this shows that he told himself of all these years that the feelings of this summer were dedicated to the atmosphere of the summer. But he has also always asked himself if there could be something more behind his memories. And this was a thing that he wants to clarify before he dies. He has decided to speak (instead of die).
At this point I think both did realize that they woke up from a coma. A coma where they had told themselves that the feelings and memories of this summer were not what it was.
But know 15 years later they are on another point of life and see that this kind of thoughts were wrong and that everything what happened and they have feel in this summer is still there and is real.
They both realize that they are completely in love with each other.
But Oliver knows that he has already taken his decision a long time ago and is married with kids now.
He cannot be with Elio. That’s also why he wants to go seconds after he was honest about his feelings. I know that when he will talk longer about this, he will hurt himself.
BUT he cannot get loose of this thought and that’s why he taken the decision to meet Elio 5 years later in the villa everything has begun. His kids are grown up now and his marriage maybe is not as happy as 20 years ago – he is now “old enough to don’t care”.
Again they do not talk openly about their feelings, but they “are one”, they are far behind a simple “I love you” or a simple “can we be?”. They do not need to talk about it because both of them know what the other feels. Elios thought at the end “…and call me by your name” need not to be spoken out, because Oliver understands and he do not contradict.
Maybe this would/can be a start of them. The book has shown what happen when you do not speak about your feelings – living 15/20 years in a coma and lying to yourself. But in their special kind they have spoken to each other after 15 years and see that they do not have to talk anymore because they are so equal, they need only to try and be honest to themselves and so maybe get now their chance – 20 years later.
So I don't know - maybe I will only keep my self calm and give them a happy end. What do you think about my thought.
Thank you Don.well said the book an movie both hurt me so bad.tgen I had to remind my self that I was Oliver's age in 1983.an while people now see they that they have choices back then it was really limited.i think they were in a comma but more like different cell blocks in a prison where the love they felt and the belief they were the same person was really important.the author did say in interview that the ending he felt like Oliver didn't leave the next day.that they stayed and we're finally together.i also remembered elio telling Oliver when they were first together that they had waisted so many day before the knew their true telling.an Oliver says something like things happen when they are suppose to.i believe that in life.elio is unreliable narrator and he does give us or Oliver any information on his life in the 15 years.to me it was like elio had become Oliver in beginning of the book where we don't know. Anything about his family.i believe in my mind that in those 15 years elio did may either get married had kids or else fall in love with another man that maybe died from side and that is why he is so concerned about what was his life all about .that what was the point of living if they just die.after they meet something changes in elio an Oliver where they talk during the 5 years before he visits.they might have gotten together during before Oliver comes to the villa.we don't know.i think Oliver was probably divorced by then.the other thing is when elio has sex with marza and then Oliver he describes it as being different that the relationship with a woman was different than the relationship with a man.so I don't understand how Oliver could not have been tempted during those 15 years.i just don't see it.i think what it hard to take is how this story was fiction and yet so true for so many people an that they have to come to terms with choices they made in there life an be happy.i think the author is great writer but he is very ambiguous in his writing an sometime you just want clear meaning.i also had a feeling that there wasn't a clear closure an in life most times there is not.i hope the sequel anwsers these but has a feeling of happiness.he wants to do couple more movies that's great but if it's just one more please have them together.
Yes to guys.is what I meant.i also think maybe elio was Oliver's first guy.unless he had experimented with guy before unsure though.i just don't know how brave Oliver would have been to try before he got to italy.im sure he had sex with girls but guys I don't know.he was worried about his family finding out.what are your thoughts
Scott wrote: "Thank you Don.well said the book an movie both hurt me so bad.tgen I had to remind my self that I was Oliver's age in 1983.an while people now see they that they have choices back then it was reall..."What you said Scott is completely true. Aciman is an awesome writer, but in some points, I would also have love to get more information. Specially the last part of the book, where he shows us that they are still in love after 15 up to 20 years, but in this small number of pages he gave us no information about their actual life. We do not know if they are happy or not. But in the other case he gave us some space to think about the “what could be”.
But I think that they are both happy in their “coma”. I think also that they both have decided to use “this form” of life. Prof. Perlman told Elio that it is his choice how he will life his life and that he be careful whom or how many people he will give his heart. For me he told Elio here to try anything to be with Oliver, with whom he has something so special and unique. But Elio had decided to do nothing. Maybe because he has also known (as Oliver did) that there is not future for them in this special point of time. They are young and the society would not accept their relationship.
And thanks Scott for reminding on this. Like you said Oliver said to Elio that things always happen when they supposed to. I think both know these. But Elio had the hope that they will stay close until their time comes. When Oliver announced his wedding, he sees all his hopes drift away.
With the times I really thing that their memories have changed. They tried to protect themselves and life in their coma. Surely happily, but in lovely memories to this summer. It would be nice to know more about this years of their life. It is sad that Aciman only give us such a little number of pages for this.
After they have met 15 years later they both wake up from their coma and realize that there is still a great and unique love. And in the upcoming 5 years to come closer. That’s the only reason for me why Oliver visits Elio in the villa. If not, why would he have wait 20 years to visit him?!
I think Oliver had to wait until his kids are grown up and maybe he has a divorce (I like that thought).
And 20 years later, in 2003 times have changed, they are older and wiser and they are “old enough to don’t care” – and exactly this is their time to come up together and figure things out.
In this way the author shows us so many things, that the times they started their love were intolerant and such a hard time for gay people, he also shows us what happens when you did not fight for what / whom you love (life 20 years without this person) and either that things that should happen, will happen (in my version of the “end”). Great!
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