Which do you enlist first: CPs or Beta Readers?

[Zachary]

I'm in the middle of my second draft at the moment, and I'm shipping it off to a paid beta reader once its done. I plan on having other (free) betas while it's out with the paid one, but I also want to get some CPs, too.

Which is usually done first? Sorry if my question is hard to follow!

CP = critique partner

[Steve]

CPs? Sorry, I don't know that term.
Can you explain?

[Anniken]

Following this, that I don't know what CP means either

[Roughseasinthemed]

Critique Partner

[Shan]

Your CPs come before your beta readers. A beta reader reads from the perspective of a random reader picking up a mostly complete novel. A critique partner (CP) is your writing partner, and approaches your novel from the perspective of a writer. They help you figure out plot points, talk about characterization, tell you when you're slacking off on writing, etc.

A good CP keeps your first draft and subsequent drafts moving forward. Often you'll give them your work as you write or edit. So chapter by chapter. You do the same for their novel in exchange. Usually it's tricky to find a CP who matches your writing and working style.

[Keith]

Getting the right CP is tricky. You both have to care enough about each other's work to devote almost as much time and energy as your own. You don't have to be friends, but you have to be friendly. You don't have to write in the same genre, but you have to enjoy each other's work and have strong sympathy for the other's genre so you can offer useful critique.

I may have found one now, but have felt so in the past and nothing came of it. If you find one, you need to understand how rare that is and work to maintain it.

[Anniken]

I haven't used a CP for my other books, but my beta readers have usually worked as CPs as well, we just didn't know it was a separate thing

[Keith]

You may get lucky with a beta or two, but the idea of a CP is it's a long-term (multiple book, potentially career length) relationship. Someone with whom each can motivate the other, discuss ideas that may turn into a story at some point, commiserate regarding echoing silence from agents, congratulate when one get the publishing deal, that sort of thing.

If you're ever only going to write one novel, then there's probably no value in searching for one. However, if you're considering a career and expect to put out dozens of novels, having someone you can count on to give you useful, honest feedback is going to make that process a whole lot more enjoyable.

[Zachary]

Keith wrote: "You may get lucky with a beta or two, but the idea of a CP is it's a long-term (multiple book, potentially career length) relationship. Someone with whom each can motivate the other, discuss ideas ..."

This is my second manuscript, but it's the one I'm pursuing to publish first. This is definitely not a one-time thing--I've been writing since elementary school. Is it too late to get a CP for this book, even though it's very far along?

[Keith]

It's never too late if you intend to continue writing. Perhaps they'll read your current book and give you all sorts of ideas for a next one.

[Dakota]

I second Keith's opinion. It's never too late to get a critique partner. Finding one that can honestly tell you that what works, what doesn't, and is okay with being told (and telling you) thoughts, suggestions, even a "WTF were you thinking here" <> is the hardest part that I've found. But having someone that gets all that is definitely worth the time.

[Cimone]

I don't think there's a standard order. I recommend betas, then CPs, then more betas. That's sort of what I'm doing, but I'll need sensitivity readers, too.

Here's my theory: Your first round betas can tell you of any problems that are obvious or on the surface. You try to fix those, and then you get CPs to take a closer look and help you with deeper problems, since CPs have some understanding of writing as a craft. Hopefully, like Keith and Dakota said, you can keep your critique partners for a while. Then, after you've reached a good point in revisions, you can find new beta readers. They'll help you figure out how entertaining your story is. Or you can always loosely alternate betas and CPs. I'd say do what works for you. :)

[Quantum]

Keith wrote: "Someone with whom each can motivate the other, discuss ideas that may turn into a story at some point, commiserate regarding echoing silence from agents, congratulate when one get the publishing deal, that sort of thing."

Cimone wrote: since CPs have some understanding of writing as a craft. Hopefully, like Keith and Dakota said, you can keep your critique partners for a while. "

@_@ being a critique partner is a big commitment. (this definition of a critique partner almost sounds like a mentor.) at my level, i don't know that i could ever ask anyone to do that much work for me. ^_^ i just have a few solid beta readers that give me their WTF critical responses (as well as some writerly feedback, which is useful at this stage in my writing development).

[Cimone]

Alex wrote: "Keith wrote: "Someone with whom each can motivate the other, discuss ideas that may turn into a story at some point, commiserate regarding echoing silence from agents, congratulate when one get the..."

CPs usually trade. You help with their manuscripts while they help with yours. It's work, but it's mutually beneficial.

[Vanessa]

I have a critique group that reads my book chapter by chapter in a schedule. When I'm done polishing the book then I send it out to my beta readers. Sometimes these might be the same people, usually they are different.

[Zachary]

Vanessa wrote: "I have a critique group that reads my book chapter by chapter in a schedule. When I'm done polishing the book then I send it out to my beta readers. Sometimes these might be the same people, usuall..."

Is the group online?

[Elisa]

Beta readers because I'm a horrible CP