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The Message of Salvation
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So how are infants and mentally handicapped saved by this Gospel? I have my answer- but hopefully everyone can share theirs.
Some call it prevenient grace. Grace applied prior to the mysterious "age of accountability".Having said that, I have known a number of mentally handicapped people who have had more faith than most people I know.
One thing I know for sure is that God is NOT unjust... and He knows everything...
I too have met some fascinating mentally handicapped people. I've also met some very nice people who are hellhound.
God is a God of love and he certainly would not condemn a innocent baby. So here is one , I have blessed many little ones who have been missed carried or stillborn as a chaplain. Are they in heaven?How would Jesus answer that?
Salvation is like a Rubick's cube. It comes, right out of the package, already solved. It's already perfect. But as soon as you set it out on the coffee table, somebody has to fuss with it, and then you've got a big puzzle to figure out.A lot of people haven't figured out that the salvation message can be summed up by three words:
"IT IS FINISHED!"
1 Peter 1:2 - "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father..."John 6:64-65
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
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Since salvation is based on the condition of God's foreknowledge of everything...
...is it possible that God even knows what a person would do if they had not been impacted by the ravages of sin?
Is it possible that God even knows these types of things?
Is it possible that there is anything that God doesn't know?
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One thing is for sure... God is NOT UNJUST... He is NOT a respecter of persons.
Robert wrote: "Some call it prevenient grace. Grace applied prior to the mysterious "age of accountability".Having said that, I have known a number of mentally handicapped people who have had more faith than mo..."
Robert:
Based upon the examples given in the scriptures, if a child has not reached the age of accountability (the age where the child can decided for him or herself), God judges that child by the behavior of its parent or parents (depending which parent has the greatest influence over the child). So if the parents are wicked and are destroyed by God for being wicked, the child will also suffer the same destruction.
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Alter2Ego wrote: "Based upon the examples given in the scriptures, if a child has not reached the age of accountability (the age where the child can decided for him or herself), God judges that child by the behavior of its parent or parents (depending which parent has the greatest influence over the child). So if the parents are wicked and are destroyed by God for being wicked, the child will also suffer the same destruction..."My response: I noticed that you did not offer any Scripture to support your OPINION ... do you have any Bible to back that up?
Robert wrote: "Alter2Ego wrote: "Robert:Based upon the examples given in the scriptures, if a child has not reached the age of accountability (the age where the child can decided for him or herself), God judges that child by the behavior of its parent or parents (depending which parent has the greatest influence over the child). So if the parents are wicked and are destroyed by God for being wicked, the child will also suffer the same destruction."
My response: I noticed that you did not offer any Scripture to support your OPINION ... do you have any Bible to back that up?
Robert:
I was not stating a mere opinion. My above comment is backed up by facts from within God's inspired Word, the Bible.
The Old Testament/Hebrew Scriptures has several examples of Jehovah instructing the ancient Israelites to destroy infants along with their wicked parents, from among the pagan nations. Below are a couple such examples:
"{16} But of the cities of these peoples which Jehovah thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, shalt save alive nothing that breatheth, {17} but shalt utterly devote them to destruction, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as Jehovah thy God hath commanded thee;" (Deuteronomy 20:16-17 -- Darby Bible)
"{17}And the city shall be devoted, even it and all that is therein, to Jehovah: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent. {21} And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, both young and old , and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." (Joshua 6:17 and 21 -- American Standard Version)
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Verse (Click for Chapter)New International Version
Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."
17For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.a b 21Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind.
Jehovah/Yahweh - the biblical "God of Love" drowned kiddies from cultures below the height of Mt Ararat, who had never heard of this insane, genocidal, mythological Jewish deity.
The mythological biblical "Flood" was 2,348 years before Jesus came bursting through the hymen of the Blessed Virgin Mary - right at the beginning of the Sixth Egyptian Dynasty.
No one had imagined the imaginary Jehovah/Yahweh before 1400 BCE at the very earliest.
We are dealing with mythology.
Not reality.
A "real" God would not drown little children.
Alter2Ego wrote: "I was not stating a mere opinion. My above comment is backed up by facts from within God's inspired Word, the Bible...."My response: Thanks for you OPINION. However, you have NOT quoted ANY Scripture thus far that says the parents and their choices decide the eternal fate of the children.
The verses you reference speak ONLY of the temporal fate of the wicked.
I don't suppose you have any passages that speak to the eternal torment in hell of infants because of their parents actions.
Stuart wrote: "A "real" God would not drown little children..."My response: A HOLY God DESTROYS ALL WICKEDNESS.
That is why you are TERRIFIED and OBSSESSED with God. You know you will face His HOLY JUDGMENT one day.
Robert wrote: "Alter2Ego wrote: "I was not stating a mere opinion. My above comment is backed up by facts from within God's inspired Word, the Bible...."My response: Thanks for you OPINION. However, you have NOT quoted ANY Scripture thus far that says the parents and their choices decide the eternal fate of the children.
The verses you reference speak ONLY of the temporal fate of the wicked.
I don't suppose you have any passages that speak to the eternal torment in hell of infants because of their parents actions."
Robert:
No doubt you have a credible explanation for why every single child was destroyed with the parents in the Biblical accounts I presented from Deuteronomy 20:16-17 and Joshua 6:17 and 21.
And no doubt you have a credible explanation for why every single child was destroyed along with its parents at the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah
Or perhaps you can provide this forum with a credible explanation for why every single child was destroyed during the global deluge of Noah's day.
Just so you know, your claims about "prevenient grace. Grace applied prior to the mysterious "age of accountability" went out the window with those Biblical accounts--unless you can provide scripture that says God will bring back to life those that He purposely destroyed, because he found them to be wicked.
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Robert wrote: "Stuart wrote: "A "real" God would not drown little children..."My response: A HOLY God DESTROYS ALL WICKEDNESS.
That is why you are
TERRIFIED
and
OBSSESSED
with God. You know you will fa..."
Misanthropic religionists write "scriptures" that other misanthropic religionists declare to be the "Word of God", and the human writing detail the baby-killing genocide of the mythological deity in question.
The biblical writings are NOT the word of Yahweh/Jehovah.
They are the word of very unpleasant humans.
"A HOLY God DESTROYS ALL WICKEDNESS"
What vile nonsense, Robert.
Even you cannot possibly believe that a real "God" would consider innocent children "wicked".
Especially a "God" you claim is full of love.
Even though, as i pointed out, the writers of the first four biblical books do not have Yahweh (or the Elohim) declare that they love ANYONE.
You are dealing with human writings.
You are not honest enough to admit it.
You still dishonestly dodging your claim for 1,600 years of biblical "scripture".
Alter2Ego wrote: "And no doubt you have a credible explanation for why every single child was destroyed along with its parents at the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah..."My response: Of course I do.
Stuart wrote: "The biblical writings are NOT the word of Yahweh/Jehovah...."My response: Thanks for you OPINION.
It is actually wishful thinking on your part. You are DESPERATELY HOPING that there is no God... in TERROR you spend hours in forums, talking about a God you claim not to believe in... trying to convince others... in a blind hope that you are right.
God is the Judge... and you KNOW that you will face him in your sins... and YOU will have to pay the debt for your sin.
A debt that true Christians do NOT have to pay, because Jesus PAID IT FOR US!
Wow, this is some of the worst theology out of context and out of scripture I've seen in years (you TOO Stewie).People, please read slower. Use a dictionary if you must.
Do children go to hell because of their parents???? No. Cain & Able are a good example. As is King David.
Don't worry - God is more than capable of dealing fairly with infants. The games not over. Hell won't be mostly empty ( it'll be just right. Yes, God has a plan - and He's working it... with angels AND demons)
Christian Theological/Philosophical Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Melchisedec: A Character Study (other topics)Baptisms: One? Many? Or Both? (other topics)
The Armor of God: Put it on, and Practice! (other topics)
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John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE ."
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John 11:25 - "Jesus said unto her, I am the RESURRECTION , and the life: he that BELIEVETH in me, though he were dead, yet SHALL HE LIVE :"
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John 3:36 - "He that BELIEVETH on the Son HATH EVERLASTING LIFE : and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
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Acts 16:30-31
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED ?
31 And they said, BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED , and thy house.
1 Corinthians 2:2 - "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him CRUCIFIED ."
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Acts 13:39 - "And by him ALL THAT BELIEVE ARE JUSTIFIED FROM ALL THINGS , from which ye COULD NOT BE justified by the law of Moses."
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Books from Robert W. Dallmann
Melchisedec - A Character Study
Baptisms - One? Many? Or Both?
The Armor of God - Put It On, And Practice!