Do you use non-English words/phrases from a character's cultural perspective?

[Quantum]

(This question and an answer were brought up on another thread.)

Here, as writers writing for the most part in English, we are concerned with how we depict non-dominant cultural perspectives of the characters and/or environment by using non-English or non-standard English words and/or phrases, idioms. In addition, how much explanation should be provided? How much dialect do you include in your stories?

How about pidgin English? In Murayami's All I Asking for Is My Body
,
he uses a lot of Hawaiian pidgin English.

[Quantum]

This is a cute story a and it uses some Japanese words and it takes place in Japan and at least one Japanese word "onigiri" isn't explained and not every English reader would know it.

Do you think it's sufficiently known through context?

http://dailysciencefiction.com/fantas...

[[deleted user]]

In most of my novels, the action happens in non-anglophone countries or settings, be it in Europe, the Middle East, Asia, etc. I try my best to reflect the local flavor by mostly using local place names according to the local language. If the meaning risks being lost on the reader, then I attach an end-of-page note to the name or expression, where I give its translation or nearest meaning in English. For example, I used in one novel old German Army expressions from WW2 to give a German flavor to the story and also to show a bit the mentality and spirit of the soldiers of the time. I did the same in another novel, when my heroines encountered a bunch of Australian soldiers in Papua-New Guinea in 1943. I am presently writing a novel where the action is in 1912 Paris. Now, would you spoil the charm of all those old French street names by translating them all. How could you translate the 'Rue de la Grande Truanderie' without losing all the poetry in the name?

[Elizabeth ♛Smart Girls Love Trashy Books♛]

I agree with what Michel said.

[Leonie]

Although this isn't totally about 'words' I'll just quote a few tweets from people sitting in a panel about 'whitewashing' spec fic films/books/TV programs at the Continuum Convention last weekend.

"I wish the world could see us more as we are, and not as tiny bits of exotic Oriental flavour in Western media."

"It's not about outrage, it's about wanting to be represented and hen being intensely disappointed."

"Devin points out the panel feels less anger over whitewashing than a desire to be represented."

"Mia feels Western readers need to get comfortable with not understanding everything. Not everything is about them."

"Stephanie points out unfamiliar engineering terms aren't italicised"

"Dumbing things down does a disservice to your audience. Expand their world."

[Faith]

If you write something that a reader has to look up, they're more likely to remember it. I use Latin expressions in text which I would have had to look up the first time I read them, so that's learning and adding to your toolbox of language. To help that along, it's a good idea to support putting phrases from other cultures in as they are, without explanation.

In the story I'm working on, I've used ancient Greek words in one passage with no translation (not even our alphabet). It's up to the reader whether they want to learn something that adds a small amount of cultural depth to the story or skip straight past.

I had heard that (for example) US culture and use of language has been promoted by gifting TV shows like Star Trek and Friends to developing countries. The suggestion was that this promoted one culture's identity over another and encouraged people learning the language to select the US version almost without being aware of the decision. Soft power can be used to influence the future direction of the world. If you believe in a more varied world, then bring out some different cultural identities and give them depth by letting them say things that might be outside your other characters' experiences.

[Graeme]

One of my characters swears in French when particularly stressed out.

[Nik]

I use some Russian curses in the book, not even when stressed out, and write with heavy Russian accent here and in the books -:) Not sure whether editors are capable to weed all of it out

[Quantum]

Good points,Leonie and Faith.

On the kindle, it automatically searches Wikipedia and it has a bunch of non-English dictionaries. I'm sure some websites have similar features.

You can also biuld you own custom glossary for your kindle book.

[Justin]

I know we tend to use a lot of words that have latin and or french origins. I know sometimes I write a word and it comes up as underlined but that's only because while it's commonly used in English it's a french word.

I use several Chinese words in my book Opium Warfare which is set in Shanghai. I made sure I looked up the words before I used them and I have them spread out throughout the book but I don't use them a whole lot but usually to stress a point or when I feel the language is in need.

[Ian]

I try to avoid words that nobody will know the meaning of, although as Michel notes, you have to properly write street names (and other names, for that matter). I also think it depends on how familiar your re with the culture. If you are really familiar, yes, you can insert something, but if you are not, then you run the risk of being seen to be little more than a smart-arse.

Curses are a particular curse - if you know you can get them right, fine. If you don't, you can't really write an English curse, soon my opinion, you have to find a way to represent the dire straights without cursing. As Michel said, it is good to get the atmosphere, but make sure you get it right.

[Mehreen]

Ian wrote: "I try to avoid words that nobody will know the meaning of, although as Michel notes, you have to properly write street names (and other names, for that matter). I also think it depends on how famil..."

For my stream of consciousness book, Moirae, I have presented the thoughts of illiterate people. It was written from their point of view. In depicting that I have used non standard syntax and diction for authenticity. It resonates Faulkner's As I lay dying to a certain extent.

[Daniel J.]

Using non-English words and phrases used to be much more common. Novels from the eighteenth or nineteenth century often have characters saying whole sentences in German, French, Italian, etc. I recently read a novel that incorporated many Algonquin words and phrases; no translation was offered, but the author was pretty good about allowing the gist of the words to come through based off context. Unless the meaning of a foreign phrase is important to the plot, I don’t think clarification is necessary. Footnotes are nice, but not essential. And as Faith said, readers can look something up if they so choose (I don’t really buy into the idea that needing to look something up interrupts, or takes a reader out of, the narrative… within reason, of course).

I also believe that exposure to other languages can make for better writing. The different ways languages are constructed gets a person to think more critically about their own language(s). There is something very beautiful about the way German combines words to make new words with abstract meanings, or the way Greek uses prefixes and suffixes to give the language a unique “on the one hand, but on the other hand” feeling.

[Nik]

Daniel J. wrote: "And as Faith said, readers can look something up if they so choose..."

I also think it's cool when a book spurs looking something up on the net, whether an expression, event or person...

[Roughseasinthemed]

I agree with Daniel. Part of the skill in understanding foreign languages is to gain the gist rather than translating every word. I often use some Spanish, (on my blog), although I do translate the more esoteric if the context doesn't make it clear.

What drives me up the wall is reading:

Buenos días, Señor Gonzalez (Good morning Mr Gonzalez).

Really? What is the need for that? There are ways round translating everything eg he wished me a good day too and I went on my way.

[Philip]

In one of my stories I had an English character trying to speak bad French to a French audience. I then wanted to translate the book into French - got lost in how to convey the scene.

The French dialogue is correct when spoken and I do not offer a translation except for when the lead asks his French partner what the right words are.

None of this is helped by my own poor French but Google Translate and other sites are your friend.

I have done the same with Mandarin, Arabic (written) and other languages.

IMHO Hollywood misses huge opportunities to use more foreign languages with sub-titles limited to a few phrases as the key foreign character always seems to speak English.