Indie Authors Monthly Magazine For Authors and Readers discussion
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"I write for readers, not for myself"
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S. Usher wrote: (My personal thought is that we need to write what's in our hearts and if the passion is there, it will resonate with readers. I also could be completely wrong.) "I'm with you on that. I think it's the lucky writers though who write what they love and it ends up being what the readers love as well.
It might be possible to write something you hate just to please readers...if you needed the money. I would think it would fail to be brilliant, but maybe some people are really good at faking it?
I wonder if there's a case of a book being very popular and well loved; then the author confessing that they hated it. ????
Dina wrote: "I wonder if there's a case of a book being very popular and well loved; then the author confessing that they hated it"Twilight? (No, just kidding. Couldn't resist. Love to all Twilight fans)
I really feel bad for this person because I think she's headed straight to a camel (horse by committee). I want to hear what authors have to say - not what they think I want to read. I can write my own books for that thx.
My feeling is that authors write because they have to - because they've got a story inside them that has to get out. If they're polling for suggestions, what does that tell me about the quality of eventual book?
That being said, I write stuff I hate all the time for money - it's called working (BOOM!).
I've discovered that I write for the story and the characters. I don't think I could write for readers, specifically. That kind of premeditation would, for me, result in a story that didn't feel honest and, well . . . real. I did the writing to order thing for awhile, hundreds — probably well over a thousand web articles. Kept me from writing anything worthwhile.
It's a fine line, I admit, but I write the stories I'd like to read and hope my readers like them, too. I do think of them as I write. I earn my living writing books and there is always the temptation to write what sells, particularly in PNR, but my stories evolve as I write and if I added more sex scenes (My books contain a few), they'd definitely feel like insert-sex-here stories to me or end up as carbon copies of those other books. Can't do it. Won't do it. But I do understand those who do and if it works for them, more power to them. They're laughing all the way to the bank!
Good on you for staying true to your story. I so believe that a writer needs to be true to the story; an un-honest story isn't worth telling, or reading. This one I'm working on has some vivid sex scenes. I definitely never expected to be writing a story like this, thought I'd be crafting gorgeously ethereal fantasy in the vein of Patricia McKillip, Juliet Marillier, Patricia Kennealy Morrison. . . . I was horribly dis-comforted and placated myself, telling myself I could edit the scenes out, but the story won't let go of them. They're an integral part of the characters and their relationship, so in it stays, even though it's going to make some readers skittish.
Mixing genres is risky so it's tempting to stick with what's popular, but then, why write it when all you have to do is open a book and read it? That's why, like Jacqueline, I write what I'd like to read and hope someone else will want to read it too.
@Renee I agree. Some scenes fight to stay. Whatever you try, they end up creeping back in because they have their place. For instance, I have a scene in my sequel that has been qualified as 'awkward and cringe-worthy'. I wondered about removing it so I turned back to my betas to see if I should and the answer was 'No, it serves a purpose; the whole feel of the story wouldn't be the same without it'.
So here I am gnawing at my nails every time I think about it, yet I'm sticking with it.
@G.G. Writing has to evolve — and sometimes mutate and cross-breed for the medium to be relevant. I know I can't categorize this thing I'm working on in any one genre; I refer to it as "trans-genred." :DAnd yeah, sometimes you have to just shut your eyes and go on with it and trust the story. Puts a whole new spin on the cliche, "that's my story and I'm sticking to it."
@Renee #9 I like that -"trans-genred". While most of my books are PNR, they aren't typical of the genre (Yah, I know, everyone says their books are different). I use a PNR setting to write stories about the human condition; finding your inner strengths, family, prejudice, etc., even about body image, since most women have problems with that. But there's a preconceived expectation for any sub-genre of romance that's hard to cross. I have several readers who don't read PNR, but read me! How do you promote or classify a book like that?
I write for me. And while I hope that the readers will also love it, it takes too many weeks and months of my life to write something for the sole purpose of another person enjoying it. I write the story I would love to read, and in doing so, have faith there is another person out there like me who will think it is the most amazing thing ever.
N.D. wrote: "I write for me. And while I hope that the readers will also love it, it takes too many weeks and months of my life to write something for the sole purpose of another person enjoying it. I write t..."Yep - that was the point I was trying to make; thank you for putting it much more eloquently :D
I figured. I understood what you meant right off the bat. I had a friend once who was very pushy and kept trying to put ideas on me of how I should write my book so it isn't cliché or like every other book. She would constantly send me links of overused tropes.Females as healers is overused
everyone is tired of pretty elves
not enough colored folk
not enough LBGT people
add this, add that, don't make the villain blonde that's overused.
Wait. Am I writing this story for me or for you? Write your own story!
I guess I'll provide something of a counterpoint to the general consensus. I do write what I enjoy writing. I can't imagine spending all the time and effort writing a novel with a plot or characters that I didn't enjoy. It take so much commitment to write a good novel.On the other hand, I certainly tried to find some info about readers in the genre I'm writing. If I found out that they were mostly male and didn't like romance, I'd tone that down. If I found out that they liked longer or shorter books, I'd adjust. If they liked a certain style of writing, and mine didn't fit, I'd have to figure out what to do. And if I knew that they did or didn't like book series, I'd consider whether I could accommodate that.
But, if what I love doesn't mesh with what the market dictates, I'll just go with what I love.
Oddly enough, I find that readers respond most positively to the work I consider my most selfish stuff (selfish as in written exclusively to satisfy my own curiosities, passions, and vision). Readers pick up on authenticity and passion, and I don't think you achieve that unless you're writing for yourself first and foremost.
Jacqueline wrote: "@Renee #9 I like that -"trans-genred". While most of my books are PNR, they aren't typical of the genre (Yah, I know, everyone says their books are different). I use a PNR setting to write stories ..."I think, to promote a book like that, I'd concentrate on the story and leave the classification stuff vague. Readers are going to decide — hopefully after they've read the book — where they think it belongs. If they like it, they're usually going to assign it to their favorite genre.
I've rarely found a book I loved that followed all the rules. Or a writer, for that matter.
S. Usher wrote: "Not sure this is the right folder, but I'm an author, so I'm chatting. I was trolling another discussion feed and I saw this author soliciting advice from the peanut gallery on whether she should..."
I seriously can't imagine a book being written that way and turning out well.
@Aaron Maybe you can't imagine it, Aaron, but Harlequin and Silhouette made a fortune in formula fiction and much of what's on the market today isn't much different. Find any popular pop fiction and you'll find hundreds of copycats. Believe me, they sell.
This is an old thread, but I feel compelled to add my two cents! I don't know why I was so surprised by what that writer said (about writing for readers, not herself), but I was. The best advice I have ever gotten is to Write the Book YOU Want to Read, and that's what I did with "Queen Mother" and all of my works of fiction. Writing for others is non-fiction, and while I can do it, I don't enjoy it, and I certainly don't want to turn fiction into a chore.
My genre is not super-popular right now, but I can't force myself to write in a genre that doesn't inspire my muse. I write the stories I want to read, and hope my fans will come along for the ride. It's rough sometimes to see other writers switching to the most popular genres and making scads of money, but I just can't write what's not in my heart.
It reminds me of this quote in response to the common question all writers are asked, "Do you have any advice for young writers starting out?"
"Don't be a whore!" Harlan Ellison answered.
I have a slew of fans who want me to continue a trilogy that I finished years ago, but is still gaining new devotees. I don't have anymore story to tell. The curtain has fallen. I've had so many writers tell me to just spew out whatever my fans want to make them happy. Yet, I know if my heart isn't in it, if I force the words, then my fans won't be happy.
*sigh*
Sometimes I find it hard hard to know what genre my book falls in- or which ones it's NOT in! I just write the story I want to read, and hope the right readers find it!
Once, many years ago I was lured into the whole 'write what publishers want and they'll publish it' spiel. This was because, apparently, that's what the reader wants. I was young and a bit naive, so I gave the idea the benefit of the doubt.It took me a shockingly long time to finish the book (because my heart wasn't in it) and once it was finished I realised that 1) it wasn't the book I wanted to write, and 2) that it was the biggest load of garbage I had ever written!
It was promptly disposed of and rewritten in the style and manner I had always found to be the best...writing from the heart and letting my characters take me on the journey with them.
Rhiannon wrote:] I have a slew of fans who want me to continue a trilogy that I finished years ago, but is still gaining new devotees. I don't have anymore story to tell. The curtain has fallen. I've had so many writers tell me to just spew out whatever my fans want to make them happy. Yet, I know if my heart isn't in it, if I force the words, then my fans won't be happy.
I see where you're coming from. Sometimes we want more of a story, but it's not about the story needing to continue. It's about us not wanting to let go.
Dina wrote: "Rhiannon wrote:] I have a slew of fans who want me to continue a trilogy that I finished years ago, but is still gaining new devotees. I don't have anymore story to tell. The curtain has fallen. I..."
What a nice "problem" to have: fans clamoring for more of your work!
Good advice.
I write what I want to write. I would never write something just to sell books. I have added scenes when I am told its needed but even then I write what I want.If you don't have any more story to tell then you shouldn't force it. Series that have gone on for too long and mutated into something they didn't start out as just to sell is a terrible thing. I know I've stopped reading when that happens.
Angela wrote: "Dina wrote: "Rhiannon wrote:] I have a slew of fans who want me to continue a trilogy that I finished years ago, but is still gaining new devotees. I don't have anymore story to tell. The curtain ..."
It's the BEST problem and the WORST problem. Because I feel great about it, but then I feel guilty for not having more story to tell.
Writing a novel was actually just one of several goals that made up a bucket list that my late wife insisted that I create upon retiring in 2001.I had often speculated upon what it would take to create and sustain the perfect social structure - a utopia. So I decided to create one.
It took me 14 months to produce a completed, polished manuscript and an additional 2 months working with and learning from the conceptual editor, assigned by the publisher, to convince this novice author that his manuscript was not yet complete nor polished by commercial standards.
The end result was the story I wanted to write. The quarterly sales report, accompanied by a royalty check is an added bonus.
I think it's a mix of both. I write the stories that interest me but the idea of people reading it and having the responsibility of doing it for someone else is what makes me actually sit down and write regularly, otherwise I would just jump from one thing to the next and never get anything done (I once made a list and have about 50 ideas in various forms of development bouncing around in my head).
I have always written content that I want to read first and foremost. It is a bonus when other enjoy it and it compels me to keep going.The thing I enjoy most about writing is surprising myself. As I write about a character for example, I keep finding more small details about the character that I never thought of before, small nuances and traits. It keeps me involved and interested to find out what will come out of my head next! The ever involving and living world is what keeps me coming back.
Mark
borderleinpublishing.squarespace.com
I've tried going through the "ask people what they'd want to read" phase, and found that it didn't work for me at all. Even if their ideas were good ones, using them felt like cheating. Like, my stories are MY creations, so I shouldn't be using anybody's ideas in them but mine, which made asking for opinions entirely pointless. It ended up hurting my stories in the long run, because I would actually go out of my way to avoid using those people's ideas in any way shape or form, even when they would have fit into what was happening perfectly.And then, of course, there were my friends who would insist that I include them in my story as a heroic side character that would draw all the attention away from the main character. These ones I never had any trouble ignoring :P
I wrote whatever the Muse delivers to me; i.e., the inspiration comes and I write what it is. With me, the story and the characters have a life of their own. All I do is act as a midwife, and bring them into the world.Now and then I ask my readers what they like, and I try to incorporate that into the story, if possible.
Writing is a form of communication. What I write is what I have to communicate. How I write it might be governed by what communicates best to readers.I have a lot of stories in my head though, so the order in which I write or release may also to some degree be dictated by the market.
Nonfiction is very different than fiction too. If I'm writing a "How to" manual that's far more for the readers benefit than for my own.
An author must write the story that is inside their head and anxious to be told. More often than not, it is intended to attract the specific genre preference and/or comfort zone of a particular segment of the reading population.That said; no author can know exactly for whom they write. Only the person who eventually reads and enjoys the writer's work will know with any degree of certainty; and only after they have read and passed judgement upon it.
You see, Im quite confused on how to answer this topic. As a writer, I write what I want.
But as an Editor, Reviewer, and Beta Reader, I am constantly thinking "How will this book work for the majority?" or "The book flows nicely but should I add/take away this in order to draw more attention from the readers?"
I feel that in the end, we, as human beings, tend to believe we write only for ourselves yet make adjustments to serve the needs of others...
Sorry for my rambling!
Jacqueline wrote: "@Renee #9 I like that -"trans-genred". While most of my books are PNR, they aren't typical of the genre (Yah, I know, everyone says their books are different). I use a PNR setting to write stories ..."Omg I am stealing 'trans-genred'!
But back to the OP: There are days I wished I wrote erotica or at least romance. Especially when my friend quit her job to write dragon-shifter porn and is making good money doing it.
The kicker is she enjoys writing it. I can't write what I don't enjoy. And while I can't ever see me asking people "What do you think I should I write? What would you like the characters to do next?" I'm not immune to suggestions either.
My betas wanted my FMC and her best male friend to hook up. I was shocked, because never in a million years would I have considered it. And I had the thought, "It would take a succubus to hook those two up." And then BOOM, I had story.
But it was a story that I wanted to write and enjoyed writing.
So I guess if it works for that author...
I think there's a difference between writing FOR the readers and writing what the readers WANT. As the author, the story and character lives with in us. We know more than the reader ever will. And while I don't think there's anything wrong with getting ideas from reader and reviews, the story is yours and you need to write what feels right.
Kate, I don't think there's anything wrong with waiting to introduce a the relationship in your work. The reason why your readers wanted that to happen is because you were doing a good job at balancing that sexual tension between the two characters. If that wasn't already in place, they would have never picked up on that idea.
Gina wrote: "I think there's a difference between writing FOR the readers and writing what the readers WANT. Exactly, I think there's a difference between taking advice from people who know your work and crafting a story based on reader suggestions.
This is not to say that writing such a story doesn't take talent. First off, this person has fans who give suggestions, so clearly something is working there.
I don't know that I could do it. Then again, I can't usually keep to MY outlines.
Kate - I started out as a journalist, and as such was taught to write without outlines. That, actually, is why adding things to the story that the readers want to see is so difficult. I follow my inspiration to produce the story. Then, if the story permits, I perform what is known as "retcon" (retroactive continuity) editing; changing or adding to the beginning and middle so that the additions appear normal.This can be challenging work, especially considering I work without an outline. As such, for you folks that do use them...well...I envy you a bit. ;-)
This is sort of a hard question (a little bit of a 'catch-22' if you will). I've thought about it though and I was writing even when I didn't think anyone would ever read it. I write stories I enjoy and that I think people might enjoy (which some might and others not so much) but at the end of the day... I write to get the story out of my head. If others/readers like it I am thrilled and humbled but I guess if I didn't like it in the first place it wouldn't be worth sharing with others in hopes of them liking it (at least in my opinion).
Daphne wrote: "Kate - I started out as a journalist, and as such was taught to write without outlines. That, actually, is why adding things to the story that the readers want to see is so difficult. I follow my i..."I wonder if that's my issue. Most of my writing training was in news writing classes and marketing. Outlines were more of a guideline than an actual rule.
But omg, I hate making the various plots match up at the end. And then pruning out what didn't work... oy, I hear Scrivener calling me even now.
I'm a little late to the conversation, but I'm not sure I could write to a specific word count. The voices in my head and the story they tell dictate how long or short the novel is. I've written some at 75K and some to 120K depending on how much is happening. I know there are writers who work to meet limits for submission standards. Each of Harlequin's lines has some pretty set numbers, but asking the readers is different. This sounds almost like a marketing study. What's the average length of a paranormal vs. a romance? Should I make my hero a vampire to capitalize on a trend in vamps? smh Just write the darn story, lady, and see where it takes you.
We're on the same page (wordcount?) Lynne :D
Lynne wrote: "I'm a little late to the conversation, but I'm not sure I could write to a specific word count. The voices in my head and the story they tell dictate how long or short the novel is. I've written so..."I try to balance between writing what I want and keeping the book relatively short. Since I'm self-published, my books cost more than a traditionally published book, and the longer they are the pricier they get. My latest book was a little over 500 pages, and it was $15, as opposed to the $9 I was able to charge for the first two in the trilogy. Since I'm self-published, which many readers will inherently look down at, a higher price tag can only work against me. That's why I've found that ebooks, generally, are a self-pubbed author's best friend.
If your first books capture the reader, the length/price of the later books won't matter to them. I know the books in my series are a bit longer each time, but there's more to catch up on and keep in mind when you're writing a series. Readers (I still think of myself more as a reader than an author) appreciate it when an author serves the story. The only time I even bother to look at word count is if I'm writing during NaNoWrite, and then it's just to make sure I passed the monthly limit. I consider that a goal, not a target.
It took me fourteen months to produce what I believed to be a completed, polished manuscript. However, several additional months, working with and learning from a conceptual editor and abridgement consultant, assigned by the publisher to help transform the manuscript into a commercially viable book, convinced me that the novel, of which I had been so proud, was not yet complete nor polished.By the time they were ready to be released for distribution, the original 126,000-word manuscript had been reduced to 111,000 words for the traditional print format and 85,000 words for the audio book format, so that listening time would not exceed eight hours.
Although skeptical during the early stages of the editoral and abridgement processes, I was completely satisfied with the end-results.
I was trolling another discussion feed and I saw this author soliciting advice from the peanut gallery on whether she should make her book a series or a stand-alone book, how many words it should be etc. I commented that she should probably just write the book she wants, and it'll go into whatever category (novella, novel, series) that it evolves into. Her response was the title of this thread, "I write for readers, I don't write for myself. That's why I'm getting feedback."
So, peanuts - what's your take?
(My personal thought is that we need to write what's in our hearts and if the passion is there, it will resonate with readers. I also could be completely wrong.)