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Martin Chuzzlewit
Martin Chuzzlewit
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Chuzzlewit, Chapters 16 - 17
Got to love the names of the newspapers. Dickens must have had his tongue so firmly planted in his cheek it must have hurt for weeks. The Sewer, Stabber, Family Spy, Private Listener, Peeper et. al. were great names. Do you think Chevy Slyme will turn up as the editor of one of these papers?Chapter 16 seemed to establish that America is the land of spittoons and buffoons. Dickens has spared little subtlety in chapter 16. MC jr continues to be self-centred as "It was characteristic ... that all this while [MC jr] had ... forgotten Mark Tapley as if there had been no such person in existence."
Mark Tapley does, however, look beyond his own nose when he comments about the slave girl that "[the slave owners were] so fond of Liberty in this part of the globe, that they buy her and sell her and carry her to market with 'em."
So far, America is not getting much of an endorsement from Dickens. But then again, the major characters are also very unlikeable, and they are all from England. Thank goodness for the minor characters who seem to be carrying the weight of goodness on their collective shoulders. Three cheers for Mark Tapley and Tom Pinch.
In Chapter 16 I was smiling when I read:'You have come to visit our country, sir, at a season of great commercial depression,' said the major.
'At an alarming crisis,' said the colonel.
'At a period of unprecedented stagnation,' said Mr Jefferson Brick.
'I am sorry to hear that,' returned Martin. 'It's not likely to last, I hope?'
Martin knew nothing about America, or he would have known perfectly well that if its individual citizens, to a man, are to be believed, it always IS depressed, and always IS stagnated, and always IS at an alarming crisis, and never was otherwise; though as a body they are ready to make oath upon the Evangelists at any hour of the day or night, that it is the most thriving and prosperous of all countries on the habitable globe.
I often think this, especially when someone, usually from our church, is telling me what terrible shape the country is in since whoever is President at the time became president, no matter who it is as near as I can tell he is to blame for everything that is wrong; anyway, after telling me for 15 minutes what terrible shape our country is in finish by telling me it is the greatest, richest, most prosperous country in the world.
I was also smiling when I read this:
Pursuing his inquiries Martin found that there were no fewer than four majors present, two colonels, one general, and a captain, so that he could not help thinking how strongly officered the American militia must be; and wondering very much whether the officers commanded each other; or if they did not, where on earth the privates came from.
If I were from Canada or England or Germany or Spain or anywhere but America and read Dickens description of America and Americans in MC and in American Notes there would have been nothing that could get me to visit this country.
Mr. Jefferson Brick proposes an appropriate sentiment
Chapter 16
Mr. Tapley succeeds in finding a jolly subject for contemplation
Chapter 17
Peter wrote: "Chapter 16 seemed to establish that America as the land of spittoons and buffoons."Dickens certainly hated the practice of chewing tobacco and spitting in America. I have totally agreed with him on this subject ever since I was about 14 years old. We had a "Valentine's Day" party for the youth group at our church of all places. We hung up red and white streamers, cut out hearts from red paper and taped them to the wall, then we played music, danced, played games, etc. One of the games we played was "Spin the Bottle", which thinking back on this now is a surprising game to be playing at a church youth activity, but nevertheless we played. I don't remember who spun the bottle, but I ended up having to kiss a boy about the same age as I was who I found out had a wad or whatever it's called, of chewing tobacco in his mouth. I still get nauseous just thinking of it.
I hope that it wasn't your first kiss, Kim!
Hilary wrote: "I hope that it wasn't your first kiss, Kim!"That I can't remember. The other "highlight" of the night was another boy that I knew dragged me into the kitchen of the church and begged me to teach him how to kiss before we started the game so he didn't embarrass himself in front of everyone. So he and I briefly kissed in the kitchen, although I am absolutely sure I was no expert and he just picked me because we grew up next door to each other. The thing about this story that amuses my kids is that this boy ended up being gay and as far as I know is living happily with the man he loves. My kids say kissing me is what did it. :-}
Kim wrote: "Hilary wrote: "I hope that it wasn't your first kiss, Kim!"That I can't remember. The other "highlight" of the night was another boy that I knew dragged me into the kitchen of the church and beg..."
Kim
I laughed out loud when I read this post ;>}
Haha Kim. I always think that we haven't fully lived until we can have some sort of claim on the influence of another's sexuality at least once in our lives. That's one more for my bucket list!
I love all the comments. I love your illustration, Kim, of how people begin with expressing all their doom and gloom ideas about America and then it switches to being the best country in the world. This, I think, is true to varying extents in most countries. In Ireland, people continually blame the governments (both North and South) for all the country's ills, but in our case, we can become desperately defensive if an 'outsider' criticises our wee land; human nature, I guess.Oh and btw, I love the States. I have family and friends there. We spent years taking our kids to America; going to Disneyworld, taking ridiculously long road trips and covering, I don't know how many states. So Dickens could not undermine that 'second home' feeling for me.
I found these two chapters toe-curlingly entertaining. There are just too many instances of irony to single out one. All in all, I think that Dickens has found himself again; his genius observations are without parallel.
Well, one thing comes to mind: the arrogant general entering the room and falling his length and on being helped to his feet being seemingly unperturbed!
Also, I do keep wondering where poor old Mark gets to on so many occasions. I wonder whether Dickens has forgotten to write him in and decides to pin the absentmindedness on Martin, who actually seems to be conducting himself, in general, with a degree of sensitivity. I wonder how long that will last!
Even though I was born and bred in England and have spent the last 16 years of my life in Australia, I was lucky enough to spend 15 months living in America (Connecticut), so Dickens hasn't been able to fool me. I also spent many weekends in New York, which I love and hope to visit again one day.I cringed reading those chapters because I was wondering what our American Pickwickians would be thinking. Although, I do have to agree with Dickens in that there are some bizarre folk in NYC, but that's part of the interest.
Also, I don't know why, but I've been visualising Daniel Day-Lewis's 'The Butcher' from Gangs of New York as the Colonel (the first one he met on the boat). A bit harsh perhaps (lol) but that's who comes to mind.
Ah yes, Kate. Good old Daniel! What an actor. I think I heard recently that he was to receive a knighthood, but then again I may have been dreaming.Yes, I too was cringing at the effect this may have on our fellow American Pickwickians. We spent only a couple of days in NYC and what an experience! We loved it and really hope to go back one day.
It is interesting to ponder what Dickens would have written if a detailed American Notes Volume Two would had appeared after his second visit to the United States in 1867. He travelled to the US for his second visit against the suggestions of his doctors and friends. Obviously, he wanted to return very much. I imagine he would have seen a much changed country in 1867.Being Canadian, and having lived my life in Toronto, and now Victoria, I have always been within sight of the US. It is a wonderful neighbour.
Peter wrote: "It is interesting to ponder what Dickens would have written if a detailed American Notes Volume Two would had appeared after his second visit to the United States in 1867. He travelled to the US fo..."I love these two stories about Dickens second trip to America:
Following a Dickens reading in Portland, Maine, on the 30th of March, 1868 12-year-old Kate Wiggin, having missed the Portland reading, encountered Charles Dickens on a train bound for Boston. Dickens was quite taken with this precocious child and spent considerable time talking with her during the journey. He was amused when she told him that she had read all of his books, skipping over some of the "lengthy dull parts." Kate grew up to be a novelist herself, publishing Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm in 1903. In 1912 she published her account of the meeting with Dickens as "A Child's Journey with Dickens." From her book:
"It seems to me that no child nowadays has time to love an author as the children and young people of that generation loved Dickens; nor do I think that any living author of to-day provokes love in exactly the same fashion. From our yellow dog, Pip, to the cat, the canary, the lamb, the cow, down to all the hens and cocks, almost every living thing was named, sooner or later, after one of Dickens characters; while my favorite sled, painted in brown, with the title in brillant red letters, was "The Artful Dodger."
And during the train ride with Dickens:
"Well, upon my word!" he said; "you do not mean to say that you have read them!"
"Of course I have," I replied; "every one of them but the two that we are going to buy in Boston, and some of them six times."
"Bless my soul!" he ejaculated again; "Those long thick books, and you such a slip of a thing."
"Of course," I explained conscientiously; "I do skip some of the very dull parts once in a while; not the short dull parts, but the long ones."
He laughed heartily; "Now, that is something that I hear little about." he said; " I distinctly want to hear more about those very dull parts."
This is something else that happened during his second American trip:
The Old Curiosity Shop in Braille
"During his 1867-68 reading tour in America Dickens was contacted by Dr. Samuel Gridley Howe, founder of the Perkins School for the Blind in Massachusetts, asking permission to publish The Old Curiosity Shop in braille. Dickens, who had visited the Perkins school in 1842 and had devoted 14 pages to it in American Notes, went even further. He paid $1700 to have 250 copies of the book printed in braille and distributed to all of the blind schools in America."
KimWhat great details and information you always come up with in your posts. I have never read, or even heard about, what you uncovered in your post.
If I may indulge in some personal history. I once had a wonderful Old English Sheepdog, a magnificent, albeit very hairy and high-maintenance brushing and grooming kind of dog that was named ... what else ... Dickens. He was the most loveable companion. All the children in the neighbourhood initially called him Mr. Magoo (after a cartoon character, I think). Poor kids, I would explain who Dickens was. I'm not sure it made much difference to the neighbourhood kids, but Dickens had lots of friends who eagerly waited for him to walk by their homes.
Thanks Kim for these insights. What great stories.Peter, how cool to have had a sheepdog called Dickens. A whole lot cooler than Mr Magoo! At least Dickens had an idea where he was headed.
That is a great name for a dog. If I ever get a male cocker spaniel I'll definitely have to name him that. For some reason I always get the girls. :-}
Kim wrote: "I often think this, especially when someone, usually from our church, is telling me what terrible shape the country is in since whoever is President at the time became president, no matter who it is as near as I can tell he is to blame for everything that is wrong; anyway, after telling me for 15 minutes what terrible shape our country is in finish by telling me it is the greatest, richest, most prosperous country in the world."Kim,
this is also a German phenomenon, at least the first part: Germans tend to moan about the present, pointing out that the country is going to pot, that politicians are liars and incompetant fools, which, to tell you the truth, they probably are, and that basically there is not much hope left for the next generations to enjoy a secure and prosperous life. However, Germans fail to notice that their country and economy are still comparatively well off.
Kim wrote: "Peter wrote: "Chapter 16 seemed to establish that America as the land of spittoons and buffoons."Dickens certainly hated the practice of chewing tobacco and spitting in America. I have totally a..."
Ahem, think about the coffee drinkers here, Kim! As to chewing tobacco, I have never actually seen anybody in Germany actually do this. And I cannot imagine that there is much pleasure in it as it definitely yuckifies my imagination.
Tristram wrote: "that politicians are liars and incompetant fools, which, to tell you the truth, they probably are,"I liked that part, it made me laugh. :-}
Tristram wrote: " As to chewing tobacco, I have never actually seen anybody in Germany actually do this"That is one of the best reasons for my moving to Germany I've ever seen. Chewing tobacco is the most disgusting think I can think of, of course I'm not sitting here trying to top it. Every year at my husband's Christmas party, which is held in a very nice hotel, there are men sitting there who came in carrying plastics cups they can spit into during the meal. They sit them on the table right next to their wine glasses. Oh, I'm getting nauseous all over again.
I actually asked my tobacconist, who is an eminent member of the profession and he said that there are actually one or two brands of chewing tobacco in Germany but he has neither of them since nobody ever wants to buy it. It seems to be gruesome custom that is mostly restricted to some remote areas of South Germany.
To give my 2 pence on the America chapters here, I'd say that Dickens really must have had it in for the U.S. Maybe one of the reasons he was so bitter about the United States, where he actually received a more than triumphant welcome, unless I am very much mistaken, was the fact that people there did not respect the copyright and printed and sold his novels without giving him any royalties. This, to a fully-fledged businessman like Dickens must have roused his ire the same way as his disappointment with American reality probably did.I remember some of Mark Twain's satires on journalism, but Colonel Diver is really worse than anything Mark Twain has come up with: He is a blackmailer and a bully and a browbeater of the coarsest fabric, and one might really question whether journalism was really that rowdyish at the time.
Then we have this passage, which is soooo cliché:
"It was rather barren of interest, to say the truth; and the greater part of it may be summed up in one word. Dollars. All their cares, hopes, joys, affections, virtues, and associations, seemed to be melted down into dollars. Whatever the chance contributions that fell into the slow cauldron of their talk, they made the gruel thick and slab with dollars. Men were weighed by their dollars, measures gauged by their dollars; life was auctioneered, appraised, put up, and knocked down for its dollars. The next respectable thing to dollars was any venture having their attainment for its end. The more of that worthless ballast, honour and fair-dealing, which any man cast overboard from the ship of his Good Name and Good Intent, the more ample stowage-room he had for dollars. Make commerce one huge lie and mighty theft. Deface the banner of the nation for an idle rag; pollute it star by star; and cut out stripe by stripe as from the arm of a degraded soldier. Do anything for dollars! What is a flag to them!"
I need not say anything about it since it is one of the oldest tricks in the book to slander your opponent by presenting him as mercantile and mean. By the way, is not England herself usually regarded as the cradle of modern industrialization and capitalism?
Then we have Martin visit the Norris family - for no apparent reason at all but just to give Dickens the opportunity to denounce average Americans as racist and bigoted. Here the plot is definitely sacrificed for the sake of message-mongering, and the whole chapter reads like a conte philosophique, or rather a conte colérique. There are some satirical gems in the America chapters, but here Dickens lets his personal disillusionment get the better of him.
Tristram wrote: "I actually asked my tobacconist, who is an eminent member of the profession and he said that there are actually one or two brands of chewing tobacco in Germany but he has neither of them since nobo..."You actually have a tobacconist? Just run out to the mini-market and buy a pack of cigarettes like every smoker around here does. :-}
Tristram wrote: "Then we have Martin visit the Norris family - for no apparent reason at all but just to give Dickens the opportunity to denounce average Americans"One of the things I found interesting about this chapter was the following:
"Night then coming on apace, Martin proposed that they should adjourn to Mrs Pawkins's establishment for coffee; but in this he was overruled by his new acquaintance, who seemed to have set his heart on carrying him, though it were only for an hour, to the house of a friend of his who lived hard by. Feeling (however disinclined he was, being weary) that it would be in bad taste, and not very gracious, to object that he was unintroduced, when this open-hearted gentleman was so ready to be his sponsor, Martin--for once in his life, at all events--sacrificed his own will and pleasure to the wishes of another, and consented with a fair grace. So travelling had done him that much good, already."
It sounds like Dickens thought Martin was as self-centered as we think he is.
Peter wrote: "Got to love the names of the newspapers. Dickens must have had his tongue so firmly planted in his cheek it must have hurt for weeks. The Sewer, Stabber, Family Spy, Private Listener, Peeper et. ..."Subtle he ain't.
Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: " As to chewing tobacco, I have never actually seen anybody in Germany actually do this"That is one of the best reasons for my moving to Germany I've ever seen. Chewing tobacco i..."
You must lead the very opposite of a sheltered life. I can't remember a single time in my 70 years of living where I saw anybody chewing tobacco.
Everyman wrote: "Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: " As to chewing tobacco, I have never actually seen anybody in Germany actually do this"That is one of the best reasons for my moving to Germany I've ever seen. Chewi..."
Then don't move here, my son says we're all hicks & hillbillies & farmers. Maybe it's a central Pennsylvania thing. A disgusting thing.
Kim wrote: "It sounds like Dickens thought Martin was as self-centered as we think he is."I, too, think that it was one of Dickens's intentions with this novel to show how an egoistic young man is slowly yet steadily brought around to change for the better by some dire experiences. From the very beginning, when Martin, for example, has Tom read out loud to him, expecting that he would go on even after he himself has fallen asleep, we get glimpses of his conceit and egocentrism, and in this passage you chose, Kim, it's probably really the first time we realize that Dickens is well aware of this lack of amiableness in his protagonist.
Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "I actually asked my tobacconist, who is an eminent member of the profession and he said that there are actually one or two brands of chewing tobacco in Germany but he has neither o..."You don't get pipe tobacco at a mini-market, at least not good pipe tobacco, which is probably quite good because this means that whenever I want some good tobacco I have to travel downtown.
Tristram wrote: "Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "I actually asked my tobacconist, who is an eminent member of the profession and he said that there are actually one or two brands of chewing tobacco in Germany but he h..."Ah good, at least you're a pipe smoker, that at least smells wonderful. Sort of like coffee, I love the smell and hate the taste, although I haven't tasted it in years. :-}
We do go birdwalking in the weirdest directions, don't we? Who would have thunk that a discussion of Dickens would have raised the issue of where to buy pipe tobacco in modern day Germany?
Love all of this ... Neither have I, at 56 years of age, ever seen anyone chewing tobacco. I thought that it was a thing of the past. I am glad though, in a strange way, that it still exists where you are, Kim. Variety is the spice of life. I do understand your aversion to it though, as I hate anything involving spittoons.Awh, pipe smoke, Trisrram. Das freut mir. I also love the smell of cigars. I have generally given up even having a puff of a cigar as I find that the taste lingers unpleasantly for at least the next day. It's a bit like eating onions. The French say about said aftertaste: J'ai mangé des oignons tout l'après-midi.
Tristram wrote: "Kim wrote: "It sounds like Dickens thought Martin was as self-centered as we think he is."I, too, think that it was one of Dickens's intentions with this novel to show how an egoistic young man ..."
Your statement about Dickens being aware about how unlikeable Martin is got me thinking. I wonder to what extent, or how long Dickens (or any other writer for that matter) has been in the process of writing a character and then suddenly realized "oh, oh, this is not what I want" or "yikes, what am I doing here."
I know with the serial format there would be lots of time to amend one's characters, and no doubt most modern writers change the course of their characters before their novels are finally published, but still wouldn't it be fun to be a fly on the wall when the author has a private "ouch" moment.
Peter wrote: "Your statement about Dickens being aware about how unlikeable Martin is got me thinking"It got me thinking, too, but in a different direction, which is to wonder, yet again, which Martin Chuzzlewit is the title character? Or should Dickens have made it plural?
Everyman wrote: "We do go birdwalking in the weirdest directions, don't we? Who would have thunk that a discussion of Dickens would have raised the issue of where to buy pipe tobacco in modern day Germany?"But, Everyman, the connection is soooo obvious!
Hilary wrote: "Love all of this ... Neither have I, at 56 years of age, ever seen anyone chewing tobacco. I thought that it was a thing of the past. I am glad though, in a strange way, that it still exists wher..."I started smoking by smoking cigars because when my grandfather died - not of anything related with smoking - he had a complete cabinet full of choicest cigars, most of them from the country people in America are not allowed to buy cigars from, and my grandmother wanted to throw them all away. So I said what was good enough for my grandfather will be good enough for me, and that's how I started ... always with moderation.
Later I switched to pipes, but with regard to my children I am smoking less and less - because I no longer do this in the house, and then I hate going outside just to smoke.
Peter wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Kim wrote: "It sounds like Dickens thought Martin was as self-centered as we think he is."I, too, think that it was one of Dickens's intentions with this novel to show how an eg..."
Peter,
I think that with regard to Martin Dickens was actually knowing what he was doing all the time. The Chuzzlewit family is so tainted with greed and egoism and Martin jr. in comparison is so harmless, though still not without stark traces of these vices that it must have been one of the plot features to have Martin become a better person. As matters stand, travelling seems to help him in this; the only thing I'm sometimes wondering about is what would have happened to him had it not been for Dickens's short-term decision to put the America chapters into his novel.
Everyman wrote: "Peter wrote: "Your statement about Dickens being aware about how unlikeable Martin is got me thinking"It got me thinking, too, but in a different direction, which is to wonder, yet again, which M..."
Everyman,
both Martins play an important role in the novel, the elder one probably even being the pivotal character as it is his money and, still more, his quirks and humours that set the whole thing going.
However, I read the novel with the unspoken assumption that Martin jr. is the eponymous hero of the book since the full title reads "The Life and Adventures of Martin Chuzzlewit", thereby promising something of a picaresque nature. Considering this and the fact that it is Martin jr. who travels and has to undergo certain adventures, I think the title refers to him.
In some thread Kim has also added the subtitle of the novel; one could have a look at it - I don't find it right now - and see which of the elements there go with Martin jr. and Martin sr. respectively.
let's just hope MC junior does not get married later in the novel and call his first-born son Martin the Third.
Oh no, Peter! Then you might have to write the sequel! ;-)
Tristram wrote: "I started smoking by smoking cigars because when my grandfather died - not of anything related with smoking - he had a complete cabinet full of choicest cigars..."You should have sold them on ebay. :-}
Tristram wrote: "In some thread Kim has also added the subtitle of the novel; one could have a look at it - I don't find it right now - "Here you go:
"The
Life and Adventures of Martin Chuzzlewit
His relatives, friends, and enemies.
Comprising all
His Wills and His Ways,
With an Historical record of what he did
and what he didn't;
Shewing moreover who inherited the Family Plate,
who came in for the Silver spoons,
and who for the Wooden Ladles.
The whole forming a complete key
to the House of Chuzzlewit."
Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "In some thread Kim has also added the subtitle of the novel; one could have a look at it - I don't find it right now - "Here you go:
"The
Life and Adventures of ..."
Kim
Wow! Is that a title or an entire chapter you're quoting here ;>}
Tristram wrote: "However, I read the novel with the unspoken assumption that Martin jr. is the eponymous hero of the book since the full title reads "The Life and Adventures of Martin Chuzzlewit", thereby promising something of a picaresque nature. Considering this and the fact that it is Martin jr. who travels and has to undergo certain adventures, I think the title refers to him."That's a good argument. But perhaps weakened a bit by the apparent problem that Dickens had titled the book from the start, but the American adventures apparently were not part of his original plan but were added in when interest from readers in keeping on buying installments began to flag. So those adventures, at least, if this is true, were not part of his thinking when he titled the work.
Kim wrote: "...Comprising all His Wills and His Ways, ..."That certainly sounds more like Martin Senior than Junior, at least so far.
Everyman wrote: "Kim wrote: "...Comprising all His Wills and His Ways, ..."That certainly sounds more like Martin Senior than Junior, at least so far."
I'd also very much agree that the version of the title Kim quoted refers very strongly to Chuzzlewit the Elder.
Everyman wrote: "Tristram wrote: "However, I read the novel with the unspoken assumption that Martin jr. is the eponymous hero of the book since the full title reads "The Life and Adventures of Martin Chuzzlewit", ..."Well, maybe Dickens had other, less exotic adventures in store for Martin junior before he realized that the decrease of instalment sales made it necessary for him to introduce the à la mode American subject. I mean something must have been supposed to be going to happen in the novel even if we were in doubt as when this "happening" bit would begin.
By the way, I would really like to know what Dickens had planned for Martin before he made him cross the Atlantic. Perhaps we'll never know unless Kim is able to bring something to light. :-)
in Chapters 16 and 17 the novel has opened on a completely new scene, again crushing our hopes for a coherent story-line because now there seem to be a lot of new conflicts, dangers etc. arising out of nowhere.
Before anyone starts to attribute grumpiness to me, let me remind you the MC is actually one of my favourite Dickens novels, and that I'm just playing the advocatus diaboli in trying to criticize it.
Maybe it's also to stir a discussion ...
... which could start with the next post by any one of my esteemed Fellow-Pickwickians.