THE Group for Authors! discussion
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Publishing and Promoting
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Submitting Indie Novels for Review
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Hi Tony. The best way to get reviews prior to publication is to have a firm pub date, a final polished manuscript, and offer ARC (advance reading copy) to reviewers via a personal email request. I have found that most reviewers want a Kindle format or hard copy book and not an advance copy unless they are a big review site that works with publishers. You may have better luck offering books after publication. Good for you for trying to get reviews lined up. Good luck!
Carmen makes a good point. I had trouble getting reviewers for the ARC. However, once the book was published I found that book bloggers were willing to review my book and take part of my blog tour.
I have a list on my blog. Not all sites will read every genre but you could go through the list. Sorry some might have closed.
http://brinabrady.wordpress.com/2014/...
http://brinabrady.wordpress.com/2014/...
My experience has been similar to Suzanne's (and I didn't even bother with paid review sites). It's a lot of work finding someone who will commit to reading and reviewing a book, even though many may offer. It's understandable, though--I have a long reading list myself and I decline most review requests these days.Keep at it and eventually, a few will click.
Good points, Suzanne and Ken. As fellow writers, maybe we need to work out something.
I sold 300 copies of a book when it had zero reviews. Then as reviews started coming in (4 & 5 stars) sales tapered off. I think exposure is far more important than reviews. I buy books that I discover and want to read, regardless of the reviews - unless they say the writing is really bad.
Edward wrote: "I sold 300 copies of a book when it had zero reviews. Then as reviews started coming in (4 & 5 stars) sales tapered off.
I think exposure is far more important than reviews. I buy books that I di..."
I agree with you. I am and was in #2 of Gay M/M Erotica on Amazon and I had 2 reviews when I hit #2. I don't want too many reviews for fear someone else might hate my book. I agree exposure is more important than reviews for sales.
I think exposure is far more important than reviews. I buy books that I di..."
I agree with you. I am and was in #2 of Gay M/M Erotica on Amazon and I had 2 reviews when I hit #2. I don't want too many reviews for fear someone else might hate my book. I agree exposure is more important than reviews for sales.
Even if they don't hate it, they can love it and still give the wrong impression. My newest book has a 5 star review, but it says the book is science fiction. That could be killing sales from the romance readers I was hoping for. :\
Edward wrote: "Even if they don't hate it, they can love it and still give the wrong impression. My newest book has a 5 star review, but it says the book is science fiction. That could be killing sales from the r..."
The reviewer said it was science fiction? When I uploaded my book to Amazon, I chose what kind of book it was. Well, it was a 5 star so that part helped but I know what you mean. I just read a review on an excellent BDSM author. The reviewer said she hated BDSM so she gave the book a 1 star. Why did she read a BDSM author then to give a 1 star? I don't get it at all.
The reviewer said it was science fiction? When I uploaded my book to Amazon, I chose what kind of book it was. Well, it was a 5 star so that part helped but I know what you mean. I just read a review on an excellent BDSM author. The reviewer said she hated BDSM so she gave the book a 1 star. Why did she read a BDSM author then to give a 1 star? I don't get it at all.
With the risk of sounding foolish, I have to ask: How does a first time self-publishing author get exposure?I have yet to publish my book, and I am blissfully unaware of many processes related to publishing and book promotion.
There are Facebook groups where you can post a book and offer a free copy for reviews. Plus there are groups on Goodreads where you can offer to exchange reviews. Good places to get started.
Carmen wrote: "There are Facebook groups where you can post a book and offer a free copy for reviews. Plus there are groups on Goodreads where you can offer to exchange reviews. Good places to get started."Thank you!
Carmen wrote: "There are Facebook groups where you can post a book and offer a free copy for reviews. Plus there are groups on Goodreads where you can offer to exchange reviews. Good places to get started."
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
I've scored only additional expense by sending free paperbacks to those who say they will write a review. In future, I will only offer the ebook version, and skip people who say they can't bear reading a book on a screen.
Janene, how do your reviews look from eBook reviewers?
I had good luck getting reviews using Story Cartel.
I no longer seek reviews.Everyone is backed up and so they speed-read. My writing style doesn't blend well with the rushed reviewer. They miss the fine detail I weave into my novels. I scatter pearls and sharks teeth along the beach waiting to be discovered. The reviewers race past the beach in their speedboats, bitching because they can't find any treasure.
They won't change the way they read books and I won't change the way I write them. Some things just don't mix very well.
C. wrote: "I no longer seek reviews.Everyone is backed up and so they speed-read. My writing style doesn't blend well with the rushed reviewer. They miss the fine detail I weave into my novels. I scatter pe..."
Slainte! That's the way it's done, buddy!
Richard wrote: "Janene, how do your reviews look from eBook reviewers?"Better. Probably end up about half do? But I haven't sent many out. Australians are not yet as keen on ebooks as people in the US, and neither is my demographic, middle-aged plus - the book is narrative nonfiction stories about caring for someone dying at home.
I would just advise that requests for reviews and/or freebies should ONLY go out, in any form, to your target readers. It's a narrow niche you're describing, so you've gotta do your homework and find your actual market carefully. Think of those people who are dealing with these issues themselves, and medical care professionals who need material for their own practices. Those are the only readers whose reviews really matter to your sales. Good luck developing your marketing. Don't worry. It takes time.
C. wrote: "I no longer seek reviews.Everyone is backed up and so they speed-read. My writing style doesn't blend well with the rushed reviewer. They miss the fine detail I weave into my novels..."
This, exactly.
I added a line on the Acknowledgements page at the end of my book thanking the reader for taking a chance on a new author, and asking if'd they leave a review on their favorite website or retailer if they enjoyed the book. So far it's worked well. I have 12 reviews across Amazon, Goodreads, and B&N, most from people I don't know, none from professional reviewers, and close to a five star average.
Don wrote: "So you are playing both sides of the fieldLinda. You are the airhead I was referring to in my last posting here.Be advised authors that Linda is one of the supposed readers on the "readers" list a..."
Don, I would seriously suggest that you take some time to look around this site and read some of the rules, guidelines and group descriptions.
What is a 'reader list'? The discussion you're referring to took place in the official GRs author feedback group. The same group you're posting in right now.
There are things called Listopia's that members can create to list books and any other member can vote or comment on the list. That is not what this is.
There are various groups, most of which are open to authors and readers, depending. Some are official GRs groups, created and moderated by GRs, like this one, and they are open to any member and they are public. (Public meaning anyone can see what is written here, group member or not)
They also have rules. One you should already be aware of since you broke it yesterday and had your post removed, and that is no spamming. Another is that you are not allowed to link to another members reviews, statuses, ratings or profiles nor are you allowed to call them out by name or single out another user. Author or non-author.
Linda is not the one confused in this situation. She also didn't comment anywhere about the price of Stephen King, or any other authors, novels.
You are not only breaking several rules, you're being childish, offensive, rude, and making yourself look pretty foolish (and straight-up clueless) in the process.
You don't get to decide who reviews your books here, nor how they review them or what they choose to talk about.
Again, I would seriously advise you to go read a little a bit about this site, the rules and how it's used before you continue posting.
In regards to the OP:From a strictly reader/reviewer perspective, I think there has been some solid advice given here already.
Most importantly that reviews will not necessarily sell your book. In fact, with the influx of paid, shills and friends and family reviews, readers are often wary of a book that has only glowing five-star reviews. You'd likely be better off having no reviews than having several from reviewers who aren't active or haven't reviewed anything but your book.
Also, don't be scared of negative reviews. Readers are usually pretty intelligent people and they'll know what is helpful to them, what is useless, what is ridiculous and so on and most will just ignore anything that doesn't help them personally.
A lot of readers often buy based on negative reviews as well. Not a review that offers examples of typos, poor grammar, editing or formatting, of course, but what causes someone to give a poor review could be something that entices another to buy.
I only read negative reviews. I look for the things I mentioned above in regards to writing, editing, etc., but a review complaining about profanity, sex, violence or certain reasons for not liking a character is not going to dissuade me from buying. Just the opposite actually. :)
It is true that bloggers are getting inundated with review requests and most of them do have extensive TBR lists. The good thing about being an independent blogger though, is that you get decide what you read and when. So, I'd advise making sure you have an attractive, professional looking cover, a spotless, interesting but not overly descriptive blurb and that the sample is enticing and would make them want to push your book up the pile.
Just be sure to follow that blogger/reviewers rules for requests. Seriously. Read them and follow them. You don't want to piss off the blogging community over something so easily avoided. And if they accept your book, don't hound them for the review.
There are also a lot of R2R groups here on GRs where you can not only post in the self-promo threads to advertise, but you can connect with readers and bloggers who will be interested.
As someone mentioned, stick to readers and groups in your genre. It seems like a no duh kind of thing, but you'd be surprised how many authors will jump into a romance group and spam their sci-fi murder mystery. Don't do that.
Join groups. Not to just to promote your work, but to interact. And be sincere. If readers like you, are impressed by your posts, find things in common with you and your reading tastes, they'll be more likely to search out your books and, review them and recommend them to their friends and followers.
Facebook and twitter are also a good way to connect with readers without having to spend any money. But like the groups here, it's best to interact with them as a reader and an author. Post about your books, but also post about books you loved, liked, loathed or are interested in. People will get tired of seeing only ads for your books in their feeds and will likely unfollow.
Some things not to do: Do not spam. Do not comment or send pm's to everyone who shelves your book. Do not argue with or complain about reviews/reviewers in a public forum. Especially a forum where readers are prevalent. If readers don't like you, or fear retaliation, or feel you're hovering or badgering them, they most likely will not leave reviews and may not even look at your book.
And always, always, make sure your posts on any public forum are well-written. Text speak, glaring typos, no punctuation, or incoherency is not going give readers much faith in the quality of writing in your novel.
This site has a lot to offer authors who are willing to take the time and make the effort.
But most importantly, write a damn good book. If the book is good, it'll gain an audience and with them, reviews. Good and bad, but hopefully honest.
Well, that's my opinion, anyway. Best to luck to all of you. :)
TinaNicole ☠ Le Book Nikita ☠ wrote: "In regards to the OP:From a strictly reader/reviewer perspective, I think there has been some solid advice given here already.
Most importantly that reviews will not necessarily sell your book...."
Best. Advice. Ever.
Negative reviews are helpful. When I'm thinking of buying a product like a vacuum, I go to the Amazon reviews and the first place I go are the critical ones. Someone may give a very low rating because she has a baby and the vacuum is too loud and wakes the baby up. I have no baby, and can only vacuum after 8AM (condo quiet hours), how much noise the vacuum makes isn't an issue with me.
Don, I've removed one of your previous comments. The guidelines of this group don't allow users to call out others by name for actions elsewhere on the site. If you believe you were attacked or were the victim of suspicious behavior, please flag the comments in question and we will look into it on our end.Also, generally, this discussion is starting to move out of the Debate Zone and into the Flame War Zone, so let's avoid the personal attacks.
Misfit wrote: "TinaNicole ☠ Le Book Nikita ☠ wrote: "In regards to the OP:From a strictly reader/reviewer perspective, I think there has been some solid advice given here already.
Most importantly that review..."
good point. People sell books. That's what I learned early in my marketing of my first novel, and there's a lot of truth to it. When reading at book parties (my best source) many books sell, but then again, reviews have sold my novels as stated by some who left a review or comment on Amazon & Goodreads. I too look at the lower reviews but take in account how they are presented. Books are a difficult sell and more so for Indie writers, still, books do sell.
Aaron wrote: "Don, I've removed one of your previous comments. The guidelines of this group don't allow users to call out others by name for actions elsewhere on the site. If you believe you were attacked or wer..."thank you for monitoring. When it becomes a "war" for me, it's a turn-off and I leave debates and/or dialogues. I wish there were more monitoring of subjects that turn ugly (name calling.)
A lot of good advice for authors here :)In addition to the desire to sell their books, it’s wise (in my opinion) for an author to be able to consider the perspective of the consumer.
In general I don’t really think there are “sides” with readers vs. authors. I see it as a mutually beneficial relationship. An author who presents an antagonistic view of consumers of books on a public forum, particularly one overwhelmingly used by readers, is not acting in their own best interest.
Certainly authors want to sell their books, and there is much that reasonably goes along with that effort. However, in my perspective as a reader and consumer, I think the wisest don’t simply want to sell books, but rather want to sell books to those likely to enjoy them, and don’t want people to waste their money buying a book they are likely to not enjoy. This means I have a hard time understanding, or having much respect for, authors who appear displeased with efforts by readers and reviewers in assisting consumers determine if a book will be enjoyable to them specifically. A significant number of sales to people who end up not enjoying a book may increase sales in the short term, but it doesn’t sound like a plan sustainable over the long term.
For example, I typically do not enjoy Romance novels. I would hope most authors of Romance novels would want me to at least be aware their novel was a Romance novel, and would not want me to purchase their book mistakenly thinking it was not.
I must agree with the other comments, negative reviews are not as damaging as some authors think. Negative reviews often serve to help a book find the right audience. I also typically will read negative reviews in addition to positive reviews, and hold positive reviews from reviewers I am unfamiliar with as suspect. What one reader enjoys another does not, and I have often put a book on my “to read” list after reading negative reviews.
I will also say that calling a reader an "airhead" on a public forum in a community of readers seems a pretty self-defeating move for an author. Particularly for simply for making the comment that I (and yes, that was directed at me, not Linda) felt $17 for a paperback novel by an unknown author was overpriced.
The author in question might feel his novel equal to that of a decades long best-selling author, who's work a great many people are well familiar with. Personally, as a consumer, I think that's not very likely.
Suzanne wrote: "...4. Then there are the individuals who charge a fee, even a small one...."Of course, those "for a small fee" reviews still all have to disclose the payment received in the reviews posted on all sites with consumer reviews based in or subject to U.S. FTC regulations or face fines and legal actions.
Even if payment is just a free book or an exchange review.
For example, both goodreads and amazon.com are subject to FTC rules.
Of course, even when payment is properly disclosed, not all sites with reader reviews allow paid reviews. At this time, for example, goodreads does not allow paid review nor any other commercial use of their site.
As near as I can tell from public posts, the FTC usually initially asks violating reviewers to just either remove the review or add the payment disclosure while going after the offenders and the business entities (e.g., authors) paying for the consumer product opinions. Reviewers complying with an FTC request likely causes further action for them as well (I've not heard of anyone not complying other than one who pulled review then created a sockpuppet to review it again; that a site removed rather than face FTC issues).
Plus all the paid or suspected undisclosed payment reviews, reviews not disclosing material connections like relationship to author or involvement in book process, fellow authors making so very obviously fake sock accounts to drip more 5-star praise reviews on a book not likely to have even their buy/shelve pages browsed by that large a number — makes it very discouraging for bloggers, readers and authors alike.
Somewhere in the "polish" process of your book, you might want to round up some beta readers for input before sending out to reviewers. Asking for reader input about your blurb can help sell a book since not everyone judges by or just by the book cover (and is a much smaller time commitment to ask).
One of my author friends found it helpful to deliberately chat up groups and bloggers in a completely unrelated genre being up front that they absolutely would not be soliciting reviews from them because the book would not be of interest nor well-received/reviewed; that they were seriously just looking to chat about the process in general and get advice. No one wants to be just your marketing target.
Checkout the book discussions at bottom of the book page of something popular that might be in a similar vein to your book. Just lurking to find reader complaints might help you edit out common annoyances and avoid reviews that would point out. Read the reviews on both well-loved and well-hated competitors for things to avoid, to get used to both types of reviews, to get an idea of what sort of reviews a site's community has.
Always keep in mind like Tina and others have said that if you think it was a fake, uselessly vague or attack review then so will most readers; and that a negative review pointing out specifics (other than bad writing or editing) can be pointing out the very thing another reader wants to read. (Bad idea to ask a reviewer to "prove it" or "justify it.")
Be careful, too, of how many conditions you put on any free for review offers (anything other than "an honest review" can lose you reviewers plus has those pesky FTC disclosure rules so will be made public in the review).
Or worse, don't try to get reviewers to alter an already posted review to meet your idea of what a review must be "expectations" or "standards"—that has happened to me when I did review on goodreads and goodreads (over a book I gave 4½ stars oddly enough). The most I will personally change in a posted book review is to add "Since my review, a new edition has been released" or "A sequel has been announced due out..."
I'll happily correct any politely pointed out typos or character/place misspellings or confusions. But, that's me and partly because I tend to stay up too late reading and know I make typos when I review half asleep. For some touchier reviewers, even if you wanted to point out something like "Danny" should be spelled "Denny," it's a good idea to ignore it or have a non-author friend do the pointing out.
Some of it is just common sense; it gets very hard to get real reviewers and readers if you are perceived as being rude or attacking. The reviewers that will review indies and have larger followings are generally experienced enough to do a little research. Even if a clearer head removed a post—it's cached somewhere and plenty of readers/bloggers may have already shared screenshots.
Aaron wrote: "Don, I've removed one of your previous comments. The guidelines of this group don't allow users to call out others by name for actions elsewhere on the site. If you believe you were attacked or wer..."It is not me who has moved it from the debate zone. I'm an author but I'm not comfortable with so called readers from another group which claims bullied another author but I find them lurking on this group as well. This is supposed to be authors discussing author and write problems not some place for these people to comment on a side of the industry with which they have no real experience, especially disparaging remarks about indie authors.
I left their group which I stumbled into as one of the categories on GoodReads and suggested my book as a possibility for them to read. Three of those submitter went ballistic and those same three are in this group.
BTW-I flagged Mahala.
Mahala wrote: "Don wrote: "So you are playing both sides of the fieldLinda. You are the airhead I was referring to in my last posting here.Be advised authors that Linda is one of the supposed readers on the "rea..."
I can't get much older and grow up, Mahala. Suggest you try it. I flagged you, BTW.
Linda wrote: "Mr. Ledger -- The discussion you refer to took place on this same "list," the official Goodreads Authors Feedback Group. That group is open to both readers and authors. It is a public group, view..."My apologies for mistaking you for the other Linda.But you mention you are on the readers' list yet they got annoyed with me for being an author. I know that I mentioned my book with an abbreviated blurb, but at that time I was unaware of that that was a no-no on the readers' list. And BTW-you can put a URL in the comments section. Top right hand corner of the box says, 'some HTML is ok".
I don't think there is any real value to being on these lists in any event. I'm just looking for advice and feedback. I don't have time to play an online version of The View.
Back to work.
June wrote: "Aaron wrote: "Don, I've removed one of your previous comments. The guidelines of this group don't allow users to call out others by name for actions elsewhere on the site. If you believe you were a..."Hi June,I am leaving too. Try to understand. There are a few malignant posters on these lists whose only object is to be disruptive. They offer nothing but vindictive.
As for me, I don't see any value for me as a writer on Good Reads. I'm unsubscribing from GS.Too destructive. When it cleans up its act perhaps then it will be worth monitoring. But not now.
Don people did not get annoyed with you for being an author - that got annoyed at you for spamming your book.You admitted you didn't even bother to read the thread to ascertain what was being discussed, you simply assumed you could drop in a spam mention of your book because you're an author.
If you want reviews there are plenty of Read for Review groups on GR, try participating in some.
It is properly called marketing my book which is my job.I didn't do it repeatedly, it was just one email advising of the availability of my book. That was it. And I did that out of ignorance, stop making a big deal out of it. All that group had to do is say that that is verboten on their list; not behave like a bunch of children.
That was on the readers' list and this is an Authors' Feedback list, and I'm still getting the same crap.
I unsubscribed from GoodReads, not sure why I got this one unless it came through before I hit YES.
Hope it works for you.
Don wrote: "It is properly called marketing my book which is my job.I didn't do it repeatedly, it was just one email advising of the availability of my book. That was it. And I did that out of ignorance, stop making a big deal out of it. All that group had to do is say that that is verboten on their list; not behave like a bunch of children.
That was on the readers' list and this is an Authors' Feedback list, and I'm still getting the same crap.
I unsubscribed from GoodReads, not sure why I got this one unless it came through before I hit YES.
Hope it works for you. "
Don, as has already been explained, you are posting in the same group where you 'marketed' your book yesterday. This group does not allow authors to self-promote. Period.
The group does say that, it's verboten, under the groups description and in a thread labeled A Warning About Self-Promotion. It's here. <-- And that is the kind of html that is okay, btw.
You can find the groups description on the group home page and it explains what the group is for, who can be members and what you are and aren't allowed to do.
Again, you are posting in the same group you were posting in yesterday. It's just a different thread. Neither thread was specifically for authors or readers. These things were also explained to you yesterday. Once by a GRs employee and moderator.
There are many, many, groups where you can find readers who may be interested in your book and that have designated threads for marketing your book . This is not one of them.
There are also author only groups. This is not one of those either.
You are also still a GRs author so if you really do want to remove yourself from the site, I'd suggest sending an email directly to GRs customer service here and I'm sure they'll help you do that. If not, you should familiarize yourself with the author guidelines that you agreed to abide by when you became a member and GRs author.
Sorry you feel that GRs is such a terrible place. Most have pretty good experiences here and enjoy themselves.
And just a word of advice: a simple apology goes a long way when you upset people.
It says he's still a GRs author. Or do you mean he left the group?
That's too bad.
Snowflake is no more.As far as Blood Shock goes...
CAVU
What does CAVU mean?
Unless a rare-collectible-edition, required textbook or technical/certification guide (i.e., nonfiction)—no offense to Don or any other author—$18 is too much. I don't pay $18 for new release hardcovers from my absolute very favorite authors.
An exception is that I'm likely to get giddy and buy anything full price at a booksigning (particularly if running around inebriated at a convention with lots of authors); but, even then the signed by people I am a fan poodle for books are more likely to be in the $5-$25 range. Again, goes back to my considering the purchase a "collectible" or special edition.
$18 for a fiction read from a new to me author (independent or traditional published) isn't going to happen even if my own mother wrote the book.
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
I'm not lazy. Well, I am, but not in this case. I have done a fair bit of Googling and browsing around Goodreads and I have seen a lot (a LOT) of people offering to review novels on their blogs (eg, Crime Fiction Lover).
However, I was hoping for some first-hand recommendations before taking the scatter-gun approach. My crime novel, Never the Sinner, is out at the end of June and I wanted to start pinging out my edited manuscript as soon as it has been polished.
Regards,
Tony
http://is.gd/Wrk16a