Experimental Art Group discussion


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message 1: by Sheldon (new)

Sheldon Dustman (thruamiro) | 2 comments This thread is for reccomendations of literature about or pertaining to experimental art.

I would post some myself to get started, but experimental art, particularly the visual form, is a topic new to me~~ why I am seeking reccomendations!

message 2: by Sheldon (new)

Sheldon Dustman (thruamiro) | 2 comments I myself am particular looking for literature concerning Miró & also experimental art of the 1890s through the 1960s.

message 3: by Slackyb (new)

Slackyb (goodreadscomslackyb) | 6 comments Mod
Give me a couple of days and I will come up with a list of books to recommend.

message 4: by Agustina (new)

Agustina (ilovedick) | 2 comments I immediately would recommend Bourriaud's "Relational Aesthetics" (1998) and "Post-Production" (2001) which brings under the spotlight with few but consistent words, the debate of new (both aesthetic/politic) problems of arts surrounding the radical changes that have ocurred ever since Duchamp and continued reaching higher points, about not only the way art is experimented by the "receptor" (see: Sontag's Against interpretation, 1966) but also and mostly how urgent is to replace a lot of notions and terms about the very sense of "reception":

art has become experimental sofar that its changes are not relying only "inside of the work": they trascend the objectivity of a work of art, to start speaking of the subjectivity of the relations implied in the experimentation with new forms of exhibition and participation, and in the larger artistic dispositif.

I would recommend to start with these two books of Bourriaud because they're short, introductory but clever at the same time. A myriad of artists and works of art (mostly exhibitions on art galleries) are noted on the books, so there's good material to start "googling" and expanding the investigation. The first of the two mentioned books is said (by some artists themselves who were commented in it) to be a response to a debate that was allready "hot" among experimental artists, on which he had to "clear his position":

Since Bourriaud was a curator, editor, and director of the Palais de Tokyo, the artists who are mentioned in the books and himself had worked in close collaboration. After these two books it's interesting to read Liam Gillick's response to Claire Bishop's book about relational aesthetics (some years after the influential publication of that of Bourriaud). Gillick's statement is raw about Bishop. He notes several ( eerie ! ) errors in Bishop's text, which Gillick considers to be wilful and unacceptable. He is also critical about Bourriaud's (of course, it's not the polemical case of Bishop...) , so reading these four texts in chronological order it's like reaching a climax along with this contemporary debate.

(I got them in pdf easily).

(im just breaking in without having asked ~~~ so... hi )

message 5: by Agustina (new)

Agustina (ilovedick) | 2 comments want to add: it's good as an introductory way to more or less actual problems regarding the art experimentations of XX's, by means of saying it's not deep enough. It focuses on 90's exhibitions (mostly installations). Experimental cinema should not be dismissed! (from Vertov, Eisenstein, Maya Derens, Medvedkin to Marker, Godard, Farocki (essay-film, 60's, 70's, 80's)... to the 60's northamerican (jonas mekas, michael snow) or easteuropean (paradjanov, pellechyan)...

And now, at this very moment, i'd say it's music the most experimental about its own disciplinary limits. it's bursting forth really different uses and fountains of the sound. (say from brian eno to arca, hughe experimentation along there).

message 6: by Slackyb (new)

Slackyb (goodreadscomslackyb) | 6 comments Mod
I think this discussion is actually going on on two different threads. So let me right away put up the names of some texts that should be of interest to Sheldon, Ludwig and Agustina.

The discussion seems to be going in two directions: first, the destructions of old art forms and the creation of new art forms; second, the varieties of contemporary subjective and objective perceptions of art. There is some overlap here. As Ludwig puts it, "the work of art isn't the protagonist" in contemporary experimental art. The subject decides what the work of art is. He can make experimental art anti-art (Manet, Miro, Dadaists, punk) or the absence of conventional concepts of art or the absence of art entirely (certain "works" of conceptional art).

So anyway, these texts come right to mind:

Miro — Miro: The Masterworks (Masters of Art Series) by Georges Raillard. This book gives a good selection of Miro's statements about art, such as, I'm paraphrasing, I don't care what my art looks like as long as it's totally opposed to art. And if you get this book used, it's cheap, cheap, cheap.

Miro by Janis Mink. This is one of the small Taschen paperbacks on artists. It gives background info on Miro and a unique assortment of reproductions.

Dada: Paradox, Mystification, and Ambiguity in European Literature by Manuel L. Grossman. A thorough, readable examination of dadaist ideas about opposition to traditional concepts of art.

Dialogues with Marcel Duchamp by Pierre Cabanne. Duchamp was strident when it came to making art and living in a manner that worked against or played with traditional art. In this book, he calmly lays out a path for living in a marginal way; for not following conventional notions of how a person should live.

Seven Dada Manifestos and Lampisteries by Tristan Tzara. Tzara takes the position that all art and all forms of organized human behavior are idiotic. It follows that it doesn't much matter what form art takes or doesn't take.

I'll Be Your Mirror: The Selected Andy Warhol Interviews by Kenneth Goldsmith. Warhol was famous for ignoring the distinction between subjective and objective. His position was that (again I'm paraphrasing) he was nothing more than his works of art, and more than that, he was nothing more than the surface of his works of art. In short, he felt that there was no substance to his subjectivity. He seems to have followed a subjective inclination by making art works that obviously say something about mass-produced consumer goods. But ultimately, he wants to downplay the subjective. It's as if he wants to say, "The artist doesn't exist and isn't special. Things exist. That's all."

Conceptual Art (Basic Art) by Daniel Marzona. This is another of the small Taschen paperbacks. It provides a great sampling of artists' statements about conceptual art. It also provides solid summaries of works in which artists try to abandon art altogether (for example, by simply having a conversation in front of an audience).

I'll try to come up with some other titles this weekend when I can get access to my home library.

message 7: by Slackyb (new)

Slackyb (goodreadscomslackyb) | 6 comments Mod
Hi Agustina. One of the experimental films that made an impression on me was Syberburg's Hitler. He seemed to be trying radical things with setting, appearance of characters, use of language, speed and pacing.

I'll get started on this Bourriaud book as soon as I can. That name is new to me.

-- Best wishes, Brad

message 8: by Lee (new)

Lee (pebbl) | 1 comments Anyone enjoy the work of Matthew Barney? He is an American video artist who implements some really interesting themes into his works. There are a few books based on his larger scale projects.

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