Beginner's Goodbye Recap

[Long Before the End Book Group]

DM: Don't we wish we could go back and "fix" things? If only we could rewind sometimes after we reflect back on how the relationship would have been had we only known. Fortunately, I think he grew through the relationship with Dorothy.
 
Sophie Glazer: At least, he grew AFTER the relationship with Dorothy.
 
ES: Maybe I'm just feeling mean tonight, but I found myself much more sympathetic to Dorothy than to Aaron.
 
MM:  I wasn't sympathetic to either. I felt like an observer.
 
Sophie Glazer: His very final speech to her describes the happy anniversary dinner they should have had: "Dorothy was smiling, for real now, and her face seemed to be shining. In fact she was shining all over, and growing shimmery and transparent . . . " Up until that moment her visits to him had seemed to much the real Dorothy, so human and real, and now, even as he says the words "for real," she is dissolving, she is leaving him. At the very end he had come (the long way around) to understanding what he needed to be, what he needed to do. Too late for poor Dorothy, but didn't you get the feeling that he was going to be a very good husband to Peggy?
 
ES: Yes, I did. But it still wasn't fair to Dorothy.
 
Sophie Glazer: Alas, too true, Elaine.
 
JM: In his defense, I'm sure I wasn't the greatest partner at 24 in my first "real" relationship.
 
Sophie Glazer: Not any of us, I suspect, Justin.
 
JM: Relationships are really hard.
 
MH: Am still working on being a good partner
 
KR: Both Dorothy and Aaron could have benefited from the beginner's guide to relationships or the beginner's guide to self awareness.
 
DM: Maybe he needed a Dorothy to understand Peggy and be a good partner and father.
 
JM: That's usually how relationships work if you're paying attention, at least in my experience.
 
Sophie Glazer: The Beginner's Relationship?
 
KR: His time living with Nandia also helped him grow as he watched the relationship with Gil blossom.

Sophie Glazer: Gosh yes, I do agree and we forgot to talk about Nandina and Gil!
 
AA: I love his reflections on the marriage, the conversations that were never had, what could have been. I also love that he wonders if Dorothy is upset that he liked Peggy's cookies, before it actually occurs to him that he is actually interested in pursuing Peggy.
 
Sophie Glazer: Peggy and her cookies! So different from Dorothy, but so very honest all the same. I loved Peggy's suggestion about the Beginner's Menopausal Wife.
 
DM: Actually, I thought it would be quite a good thing to give to out to husbands!
 
MM: I think he needed regret to understand that differences were okay. And, Dorothy didn't seem to speak up for herself much either.
 
DM: I think, at times, Dorothy is just oblivious.
 
AA: I think both Aaron and Dorothy were oblivious....
 
Sophie Glazer: Perhaps they both needed Beginner's Guides? The Beginner's Wife? The Beginner's Husband?
 
Sophie Glazer: MM, that's very true. After he shoots down her enthusiastic description of the lustrous wedding gown she wants, she meekly agrees: “We’re neither one of us the type for that, thank heaven,” I said.
‪“No, of course not,” she said.
‪Heartbreaking.
 
JM: He always described her appearance as fairly disheveled. I was surprised when she suggested the wedding gown and he shot it down. What do you think his motivation was?
 
Sophie Glazer: Wasn't that a puzzling scene? I don't think he was being cruel: I think he genuinely didn't understand that she wanted the gown. I think he grasped that only in retrospect.
 
JM: The disagreement, about dinner, on their 5 year anniversary was very similar.
 
Sophie Glazer: Anne Tyler hints very strongly, of course, that the guide they really need is a guide to grief and loss: “But then I came fully awake and I thought, “Oh. She’s dead.” And it wasn’t any easier than it had been at the very beginning. “I can’t do this,” I thought. “I don’t know how. They don’t offer any courses in this; I haven’t had any practice.” Tyler is suggesting that somehow he needs to take a course in grief. He needs to practice.
 
DM: No one is ever really prepared for what grief does or even how to do it. That is what makes grief such an individual pursuit.
 
KM: And each 'season of grieving' we have offers more & different roads that we may not have experienced in previous losses. Even after we have grieved for many loved ones, there are still unknown (& scary) paths to take as we grieve a new loss.
 
Sophie Glazer: And oddly enough, his marriage to Dorothy, and his grief at her loss, constitutes a course, doesn't it? A course in how to be a better husband? How to build a better marriage?
 
JM: I wonder if the "Christmas Eve Widow" and Aaron's 'progress 'were charted if they would be similar or vastly divergent?
 
Sophie Glazer: That Christmas Eve Widow was actually hilarious: I felt embarrassed at how comical I found the scenario.
AT the end of the book he's a husband again, and a father. A better husband.
 
DM: Yes - he learned a lot from his marriage and the death of Dorothy. He grew. Aaron had to get over his self consciousness about his disability and become more comfortable in his own skin with it's difficulties before he could have a relationship with anyone. Whether the grief and loss helped him come to terms with his own challenges to overcome them and be willing to love unconditionally.
 
JM: He didn't stutter at the end did he?
 
DM: I think Anne Tyler was able to weave together intricate parts of love, loss and finding yourself through grief. She did a great job with the story and I loved the book.Sorry all, going to an advocacy meeting to help protect our Muslim neighbors and friends. Great book and loved the discussion.
 
Sophie Glazer: Good for you, DM!

Sophie Glazer: Perhaps it's time to move on to another aspect of this book. Anne Tyler drew much of this from her own experience. Her husband's death at a comparatively young age is reflected in this book, in the hospital scenes, and of course, the awkwardness of neighbors meaning well but not knowing what to say, and the exhausting business of having to learn how to be widowed. What did we think about this aspect of the book?
 
AA: She captures beautifully the awkwardness of the friends & neighbors, not knowing what to say, and saying the wrong things.
 
Sophie Glazer: All those casseroles! All those thank you notes! Everybody's trying so hard to do the right thing.
 
DM: I attended a grief seminar with David Kessler today. We discussed the awkwardness of family, friends etc. when dealing with someone who has lost someone. I believe, since we no longer have a personal touch with death (death in the home as opposed to a facility/hospital) that society has lost the ability to be accepting death as a part of life. We are very different as a society than our grandparents/great grandparents were when it comes to dealing with death and grief. I would say as an author Anne Tyler used her experience perhaps to put her own world into perspective.
 
Sophie Glazer: Critics have argued that Anne Tyler is a little too kind to her characters, that she creates nurturing families, loving homes, happy endings, wraps everything up too neatly. Is that true?
 
JM: This is the first book I've read that she's written. The characters seem like average people in my life.
 
Sophie Glazer: Her characters do have a very realistic daily texture, don't they?
 
DM: Yes - they are realistic and rather ordinary. This is also the first time I have ever read one of her books. I am interested in looking at more of them.
 
Sophie Glazer: "Dinner at the Homesick Restaurant" is one of my favorites.
 
MM: I liked the edgy relationship between the siblings, even though they clearly cared about each other.
 
Sophie Glazer: This book, like so many of Anne Tyler's books, includes a "created" family--the ad hoc relationships of the staff at the tiny publishing house, in this case, so much more resilient and involved than with Dorothy's own blood relatives.
I loved the way those well-meaning casseroles didn't nurture him, but Peggy's cookies did. Food was such a powerful signifier in this book. Peggy's tea with honey and Dorothy's triscuits really summed up all sorts of things about Peggy's sweetness, Dorothy's saltiness.
 
JM: Even though Peggy had known Aaron since the 1st grade she couldn't tell that he was complimenting her about the "stones" in the cookies.
 
Sophie Glazer: Yes, he needed to put some work into finding the right way to talk with Peggy. Isn't it interesting that he was ready to do the work? He had learned something from his failures with Dorothy.  Anne Tyler's most recent book is called "Vinegar Girl,"  tells us whole volumes about the girl's character.
 
CM: I'm following along silently and must interrupt to say how thrilling it is to read everyone's comments... incredibly engaging discussion!
 
AA: Are there any other lurkers out there? Please make yourselves known-- or keep lurking if you prefer!
 
KM:  I like being able to having a "permanent" record of comments -- this meeting was on my calendar for a month, but I had to deal with a last minute work issue last night & could not be on live with everyone. It's nice to be able to read & comment.
 
CM: Thank you all for participating, adding your voice to the experience. Our next book will be announced tomorrow evening.
 
DM: Great! I am looking forward to the next read. I have just loved this group. So enjoyed this discussion Sophie. Looking forward to the next book. Thank you all!!!!!
 
AA: Thanks so much, Sophie! I loved this book, and I had never sampled an of Tyler's work before. Can't wait to get started on the next one.

[Grace]

I so agree about Dorothy's enthusiastic description of her wedding dress, which is us ignored by Aaron.
Incredibly heartbreaking So obtuse of Aaron.
Love how Tyler just inserts that.