The Obelisk Gate [August 2017]

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Mayim wrote: "Still, I feel like Nassum had been more cushioned than Essun. ;)
."

It's a great topic. I think in the end like Sean I'll agree to disagree but I really liked covering it with you.

[Laura]

Mayim wrote: "Laura wrote: "I am currently at chapter 9 as weekends for me involve more family time and less reading.
My feelings for Nassun are a little mixed right now:

Essun was forced to teach her child how..."

I fully agree with that Mayim. And I feel the same for Essun.

Also, regarding your comment for Scott, that Nassun has been more cushioned than her mother - my thoughts exactly. (view spoiler)[Nassun had a mother who was strict, but loved her and a father who showed her affection (for 8 years at least) while Essun was practically treated like an animal the day her parents found out what she was and then she had to grow up in the Fulcrum with broken hands as lessons. (hide spoiler)]

[Veronica]

Mayim wrote: ".Really, no. This is stillness after all so cosy is not an option. She had had a happy stable family and a house and a comm to belong. True, her mother was uncompromising when it comes to orogens training but Nassun is not a stupid thing and surely realises that it saved her life. Knowledge what to do with rogga is as common as the stone lore. I get that she did what she needed to do in order to survive when her father killed her brother. But her deep hatred against her mother? This I cannot fathom. She was not brought up with malice. ."

I finished the book and I'm still leaning this way too about Nassun. Yes, she's a child but where I get stuck is that she doesn't really ever come across as a child. She easily manipulates first her father and then even Schaffa in order to get the responses that she wants or needs. It's a survival tactic, I get that, but she still learns it and uses it easily. Then there are all the times she figures things out - all her epiphanies - complicated, emotionally driven things that usually take people years of therapy to figure out, lol. So she just never really presents as a child to me and her hatred or anger at her mother, who as far as she knows has never killed anyone, annoys me.

Now that Alabaster (view spoiler)[is a stone eater I wonder if he'll remember Essun. I guess I'm glad he's not really gone. And now Essun is heading that way too. When did she give Hoa consent to start that process? (hide spoiler)]

I'm still not sure what Schaffa's end goal is. (view spoiler)[At first I was thinking he was "recovering" from whatever the Guardian process had doen to him, that he was becoming more human again. But then he killed all those orogenes at the antarctica fulcrum just because they didn't want to kill themselves. (hide spoiler)]

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

I don't think it's consent. (view spoiler)[It's either using Orogeny at that level, touching the obelisks with magic or a combination of both. (hide spoiler)]

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Laura wrote: "Mayim wrote: "Laura wrote: "I am currently at chapter 9 as weekends for me involve more family time and less reading.
My feelings for Nassun are a little mixed right now:

Essun was forced to teach..."

(view spoiler)[Her parents didn't turn on her until they found out and still they didn't break her hand. They've both had it rough IMO. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I finished Fifth Season and started Obelisk Gate... on chapter 4... I haven't had any problems with the 2nd person narrative since the beginning EXCEPT (view spoiler)[ when Essun couldn't decide on a name/perspective when encountering Alabaster at the end... (hide spoiler)]

Schaffa: (view spoiler)[ was bad enough when he was mentally stable... are we going to see him turn into a Guardian like the one he had to kill at the end of the Damaya storyline now?... I was kinda reminded of Mr Smith in the Matrix going off script in his chapter... (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "Laura wrote: "Mayim wrote: "Laura wrote: "I am currently at chapter 9 as weekends for me involve more family time and less reading.
My feelings for Nassun are a little mixed right now:

Essun was f..."

Yeah! You're right!
I hadn't reached that part of the chapter (view spoiler)[with Essun breaking her little girl's hand. I think any child would hate the mother who did something like that. Schaffa was only the guardian but Essun was the mother. This makes it so much worse! (hide spoiler)]
Damn! I hate it when I'm wrong but must admit it.

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "Mayim wrote: "Still, I feel like Nassum had been more cushioned than Essun. ;)
."

Looks like I have to change my mind Mayim.
I am at chapter 15 now and after reading how far the training went between mother and daughter, I completely understand the little girl's hatred. And now my heart breaks for both of them. I also get why she would cling that way to Schaffa.

I wonder how I'll feel about them by the end of the book.

[Mayim]

Laura wrote: "Scott wrote: "Mayim wrote: "Still, I feel like Nassum had been more cushioned than Essun. ;)
."

Looks like I have to change my mind Mayim.
I am at chapter 15 now and after reading how far the tr..."


:)

It might be just that I resonate with Essun so strongly. In her place I'd do the same.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Mayim wrote: "It might be just that I resonate with Essun so strongly. In her place I'd do the same. ."

(view spoiler)[Break her hand? (hide spoiler)]

[Mayim]

Did everything I had to to make her safe. However, I guess I'm extrapolating here though as me and Mr de Vries still wait for our progeny to come to this world. :)

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Mayim wrote: "Did everything I had to to make her safe. However, I guess I'm extrapolating here though as me and Mr de Vries still wait for our progeny to come to this world. :)"

I hope you and the mister thoroughly enjoy the process. :)

[Mayim]

LoL we do make the best of it :D

PS I need to tell you that your 5 daughters is the ultimate dream for my husband so you know, the bar is set high :D

[Laura]

Mayim wrote: "LoL we do make the best of it :D

PS I need to tell you that your 5 daughters is the ultimate dream for my husband so you know, the bar is set high :D"

Wow! 2 are a handful for me and you're thinking about 5!? But then mine are boys and I suppose girls would be easier to handle. On the other hand, maybe not that much. :D

And regarding what you would do in Essun's case, I think we'd better have the talk after the deed is done. LOL I'll bet your opinion will change by then.

[Mayim]

Laura wrote: "Mayim wrote: "LoL we do make the best of it :D

PS I need to tell you that your 5 daughters is the ultimate dream for my husband so you know, the bar is set high :D"

Wow! 2 are a handful for me a..."

true enough :D

[Laura]

I wish you all the best Mayim 😘.
PS: As a happy wonderful father of 5 little wonderful ladies you are one of my heroes Scott.

[Seán]

Mayim wrote: "Did everything I had to to make her safe. However, I guess I'm extrapolating here though as me and Mr de Vries still wait for our progeny to come to this world. :)"

Hooray for baby excitement!!! Our little guys is nearly four months now and I have never been happier. Enjoy every minute of it :)

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I'm on chapter 8 now... I'm having a bit of a harder time with this one... with Fifth Season I liked all 3 storylines, but with this one I don't like the other 2 storylines as much as Essun's...

(view spoiler)[ Is the Nassun storyline in the future compared to the Essun one, or have I just lost track of how much time Essun spent traveling?... the one time I remember Essun mentioning Nassun's age she was upping it from 8 to 9... so much time passed in Nassun's chapter in this one she jumped from 8 to 10...

I'm seeing the repeated theme of "Children are our undoing" Mayim mentioned in the other thread when talking hidden clues... now its even coming up in the mythology with Father Earth and the missing moon... (hide spoiler)]

[Veronica]

Laura wrote: "Wow! 2 are a handful for me and you're thinking about 5!? But then mine are boys and I suppose girls would be easier to handle. On the other hand, maybe not that much. :D "

Oh, I don't know about that, lol. We have four kids, two girls and two boys. My husband and I always laugh at the fact that our two girls are the laid back, easy going, independent ones while the two boys are the overly dramatic ones.

As for the (view spoiler)[hand breaking, was it a nice thing? Absolutely not. Might there have been better ways to demonstrate that Nassun had adequate control over her orogeny? Perhaps. But given the fact that Essun didn't know another way and that time was of the essence and the risk was so great and ever present, I can see why she made that choice. I'd rather have my children alive and safe and hating me for the rest of their lives than have them die loving me. It would be hard as hell to do but I don't think it was any picnic for Essun either.

And I get Nassun being angry about it but she's managed to come to understand why her father and Schaffa do the things they do so once she realized that her mother learned the hand breaking thing at the Fulcrum I expected her to have a bit more compassion for the upbringing her mother endured.

What I can absolutely not understand is how Jija, or any of the parents in the Stillness, can murder their own children when they find out they're orogenes. (hide spoiler)]

@Iain - Nassun's story picks up right before Essun discovers Uche dead in their home. So I took it as the majority of her POV (in this book) as happening concurrently with most of Essun's travels in the first book. At some point the two timelines sync up in this one so that they end at more or less the same time. From what I recall, Nassun was eight when she and Jija fled their comm, then spent a year or so on the road trying to reach their current comm, and then add on however long they've been there...gets her to ten years of age by the end of the book.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

@Veronica: Early on it was clear...it referenced events from the first book... the pond where Essun cleaned Hao... the well where Essun met Tonky... and when 2 months had passed, a time Essun mentioned in one of her chapters after she became a group of 3...

But then it basically said: (view spoiler)[ Nassun felt the Ika orogene summoning in a dream after it was too late to turn back, and spent a year traveling north to the Arctic... Nassun is then already explicitly age 10 when Shaffa shows up... (hide spoiler)]

[Veronica]

Yeah, the timeline isn't perfect. Maybe she was eight and about to turn nine when they left Tirimo. *shrugs*

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Yea... I think that's what Essun said after 2 months passed since leaving Tirimo... Nassun was 9 already...

[Laura]

@ Veronica: 4 also. Hats off!! I don't really know how you guys manage. :)

I totally agree with you about the parents. Regarding Nassun (view spoiler)[I believe she is so convinced that her mother is bad that she can no longer feel anything but hate and anger towards her. And at this point I wonder if she will ever understand. (hide spoiler)]

@Iain: The timeline didn't bother me as from what I understood (view spoiler)[Nassun's story picks up from the time she is already 8 and she spends around a year travelling with her father. Essun reaches Ikka's comm after Nassun passed by it and then she remains there while Nassun goes on travelling. (hide spoiler)]
But then, the story is too good and I didn't pay much attention to the particular dates. It seemed like a natural time flow to me.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I'm not THAT concerned about the timeline... I just wondered since I think the series WANTS to have 3 distinct timelines going on... like in the first book...

If Schaffa is going to be filling in his time between Syetine and Essun/Nassun, and Nassun is a year past Essun... it's kinda like the first book all over again, then...

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Thanks for the kind words. They are a joy........even at times when I want to scream.

[Veronica]

Some days I'm not sure how we manage either, lol.

I'm hopeful that one day Nassun will eventually gain a better understanding of her mother. I don't expect her to approve of all of Essun's choices (I don't) but understanding is a start. That and, hopefully, (view spoiler)[Steel doesn't totally warp her towards his nefarious purposes. (hide spoiler)]

[Mayim]

I cannot wait for you guys to read the Stone Sky!

[Veronica]

Uh-oh! lol

[Laura]

Done. And rusting Earth I should have seen that coming!

(view spoiler)[ I guess Essun will turn to syenite in the end, the way Baster turned to alabaster. So stone eaters are former roggas who linked with other stone eaters and drew on their strength. That's ingenious.

But how did the the first stone eater come to be?

And is Steel trying to have Nassun open the Obelisk Gate just to destroy the earth? If he also wants the Moon to be brought back then why is he trying to kill Essun?

And Schaffa is a mystery. A tool of the Evil Earth who still fights his master, I think he may be instrumental in the events to come.
To me he seems more human now than he ever was before. (hide spoiler)]

It will be hard to wait for 1 month to start the next book.

Predictions for book 3
(view spoiler)[I suspect Nassun will try to open the Obelisk Gate but Essun will do it in her place turning fully to stone eater in the process and saving Nassun's life. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Through chapter 14 now: grown more accepting of the Schaffa/Nassun chapters...

(view spoiler)[ I feel like I should have seen Hoa's stoneform coming... in hindsight it's clearly hinted at... I really like Hoa's interludes and interjections into the story...

I shook my head when Schaffa said breaking Nassun's hand was wrong... say what?... and I felt similar about Nassun's reaction to her mother breaking her hand versus Schaffa considering killing her as Veronica did above... (hide spoiler)]

The timelines have started syncing up again I think... 6 months have passed for Essun in the span of a paragraph... I think less has passed in Nassun's chapters

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Laura wrote: "Done. And rusting Earth I should have seen that coming!

I guess Essun will turn to syenite in the end, the way Baster turned to alabaster. So stone eaters are former roggas who linked with other ..."

(view spoiler)[I had stone eaters coming from roggas and then decided I was wrong but ended up being right. The memory retention will be interesting and can Alabaster look like his former self like Hoa?

About halfway through this book I thought Schaffa is going to play a critical role in the end. I actually predict Nassun and Essun are going to end up opposed trying to control the gate. Schaffa realizing Steel's evil intent is going to take out Nassun and Essun is going to suffer the worst thing that can happen to a parent three separate times. (hide spoiler)]

[Seán]

Scott wrote: "spoilers"

Ever the optimist eh? ;)

I will just say that not that I am halfway through The Stone Sky, I do think I appreciate the pace of The Obelisk Gate more. So I'm completely with you on that one Mayim!

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Every time I start to gain a measure of sympathy for Nassun: (view spoiler)[ She goes and does something like Icing the Arctic Fulcrum... (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

I do hope you're wrong Scott!

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Laura wrote: "I do hope you're wrong Scott!"

I do too but I'll give this additional reasoning.

(view spoiler)[
I think the author had a few current social issues she wanted to parallel, which I love in an author.

1. Gay or nonstandard families.
2. Minorities and what that feels like.
3. Child abuse.
4. Child loss.

I think she's done a good job with all of these. I'm hoping she finishes them off in an appropriate manner. I think all of these play into my scenario.
(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Scott wrote: "Laura wrote: "I do hope you're wrong Scott!"

I do too but I'll give this additional reasoning.


Sound reasoning and I agree. I still love happy endings more.

[John]

Just finished this.

(view spoiler)[So I was convinced early on in this one that the stone eaters were formerly orogenes, the appearance of Alabaster at the end was still pretty shocking. The addition of the Nassun timeline in this book was a welcome change of perspective, and I am looking forward to a reunion of the two. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I didn't like this one as much as the first one, but I still enjoyed it... more and more as the book progressed really...

As someone else said, I really felt that 2nd-book-in-a-trilogy slump problem a bit... the first book gets to setup a world... the third book gets the big payoff... the 2nd book has to find a purpose sometimes...

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

John wrote: "Just finished this.

[spoilers removed]"

Agreed John I felt the same on both counts.

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Iain wrote: "I didn't like this one as much as the first one, but I still enjoyed it... more and more as the book progressed really...

As someone else said, I really felt that 2nd-book-in-a-trilogy slump probl..."

Glad you still enjoyed it. For me book two was just an extension of book one. You could have almost made it one huge volume. Looking forward to book 3.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I think most trilogies would be better as duologies... Setup and Payoff

[Scott , Karsa Orlong]

Iain wrote: "I think most trilogies would be better as duologies... Setup and Payoff"

Perhaps, but I can think of at least a few series where the middle book was the best of the series. The Crimson Campaign immediately comes to mind.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I left leeway for exceptions... I'm sure I can think of some... but the ones that stick in my mind are the ones that have almost nothing to do with the main plot of the trilogy... Spellbound has people with powers being rounded up by the government like that season of Heroes... when the trilogy is about thwarting an alien menace and World War 1/2 if people gained superpowers, and Japan gained access/control of those powers first...