The Old Curiosity Club discussion
Our Mutual Friend
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Reading Schedule, and General Observations
Mod
Absolutely. What a great opportunity to sharpen our verbal darts and point out how sappily stupid a certain character, not to be named in advance, is.
BTW, Kim was wrong when she wrote that "One of them has an unreasonable dislike of poor, poor, poor Little Nell..." Both of them have a highly reasonable antipathy against (toward? does one antip against or toward?) the silliest, most insipid character in the whole Dickens pantheon.
Mod
Absolutely. What a great opportunity to sharpen our verbal d..."
Now, now, gentleman. Must I ride again in defence of Little Nell?
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You will have about as much success as Harry Greenacre had at the quintain.
(view spoiler)
Dear Curiosities,I'm popping in to let you know that I'm not starting our read of OMF off on a good foot! I attempted to start reading it last weekend, but found I could not concentrate on it. And this week has been a blow to my reading - end of the school year projects that I've helped my son keep on top of, scrambling to send out invites and figure out a theme and games to my daughter's 6th birthday party (which we promised we would throw since she's never had a party with her friends yet), dealing with transportation issues as my husband was in an accident a couple weeks ago so his truck is in the shop, meanwhile I came down ill with whatever my husband had last week (so I'm home battling that), and finally our good kitty Maggie, who was 19 years old, passed away so there is now a hole in our hearts and a quietness in the house as she had always been a very vocal kitty letting us know that she wanted pets and love.
So, I'm hoping to catch up soon, but I'm dismayed at all the posts I already see for chapters 1-4 as I already feel behind. Anyway, I hope to see you in the threads soon. Better late than never!
Mod
I'm popping in to let you know that I'm not starting our read of OMF off on a good foot! I attempted to start reading it last weekend, but found I could not concentrate on it. An..."
Linda
First, I am sorry to read of all the issues you have had to deal with. Please take care of your health. The loss of Maggie must be devistating. My thoughts and love go to both you and your family.
Here's hoping your daughter's birthday party is magical. Give her extra hugs.
Your seat at the Curiosities table at our local will always remain reserved. OMF is big so we'll have lots to talk about when we see you.
Take care neighbour.
Mod
I'm popping in to let you know that I'm not starting our read of OMF off on a good foot! I attempted to start reading it last weekend, but found I could not concentrate on it. An..."
One can see why OMF might have to take second seat for a time to all that string of sorrows and joys (the party, I'm sure, will be a joy, but with much work!) I think most of us in our long lives have lost beloved pets (I know I have); there aren't any words of consolation that seem right, but I'm sure she will remain in your memory a happy and always loved cat.
But OMF is a long book and we're reading it slowly, so we'll hope your troubles drop off soon and you can get back to us whole and happy.
I've started on Chapter 5, so I assume we need new thread created for Chapters 5-7, based on the schedule?
Mod
Yes. The mods will open up the thread and then away we go.
Mod
I'll open the thread this weekend. Probably on Sunday, although if I get it done earlier I may open it on Saturday night.
I saw this yesterday, from David Perdue's webpage. I'm one day late, but rather interesting. I did know the story of the train, but not the OMF manuscript.On Friday the 9th of June 1865 Dickens and his traveling companions, Ellen Ternan and her mother, were returning from a trip to France. They boarded the 'tidal train', which waited for steamers arriving on the tide, at Folkestone for the trip to London.
Just outside of the village of Staplehurst, about halfway between Folkestone and London, workmen were repairing a section of the rails on a bridge over the Staplehurst AccidentRiver Beult and had removed a 40 foot section of rail. The foreman of the work detail had consulted the wrong timetable and was completely unaware of the train bearing down on them at 50 miles an hour.
Unable to stop in time, the train jumped the gap in the rail and slammed into the bank on the far side of the river. The carriage carrying Dickens and his companions was suspended from the bridge and hanging down to the riverbed. Helping Miss Ternan and her mother out of the car Dickens then worked to comfort the injured and dying passengers, using his hat to carry water from the river.
Later he remembered that he had left that month's manuscript of his current novel, Our Mutual Friend, in the tottering railway carriage. He climbed back into the car and retrieved the manuscript.
In the aftermath of the accident Dickens felt "quite shattered and broken up", he would later report that he experienced "vague rushes of terror" even riding in hansom cabs. Dickens continued to suffer the ill effects of the ordeal until his death on June 9, 1870, exactly five years after the accident.
Mod
On Friday the 9th of June 1865 Dickens a..."
Thanks for this information. That Dickens would come again to North America in 1867 after his first harrowing crossing of the Atlantic and the Staplehurst disaster has always puzzled me.
Yes, he made a great profit, but I think I would have stayed at Gad's Hill.
Peter wrote: "John wrote: "I saw this yesterday, from David Perdue's webpage. I'm one day late, but rather interesting. I did know the story of the train, but not the OMF manuscript.On Friday the 9th of June 1..."
On my reading list one of these days is his American Notes. I believe written pre-Civil War. Interestingly enough, from some other authors who referenced that work that I have read, they said Dickens had a miserable time in this country and was not happy with his visit in apparently any way, shape or form.
Given the group read GE before I joined. I saw something interesting on-line -- Great Expectations In Plain and Simple English.I view these kinds of books very suspiciously and I doubt I would ever purchase one. But it may be helpful to a challenging book (my first thought was BH).
Has anyone ever tried a book like that?
Mod
I view these kinds of books very suspiciously and I doubt I would ev..."
I've never tried one of these books. Perhaps my excuse is I'm too involved in the original version. :-))
On the other hand, if through the reading of a more accessible version of a Dickens novel it leads to a person's curiosity about what the real one is like we would have a win-win situation.
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Tristram wrote: "It might be used for classes who learn English as a second language, but I am usually not over-enthusiastic about simplified versions since they may give you the story, but no longer the style."I agree! We have to fight the Sparknotes battle every year. Some kid always turns up with the Sparknotes version of the book and it has to be banished to "home only". The whole purpose of reading a classic in a classroom setting is to learn how to process and understand great writing--writing with layers and depth, as opposed to the pop YA novels they read (I wish!). Like Tristram said, those stripped down versions only give you the plot. The style is part of what earned this book it's place in literary history and is an integral part of reading this book.
Reading Dickens can be quite challenging, but is a learned skill like any other. If you stick with it, you'll find that it gets easier.
Mod
Kim wrote: "At the beginning of our last school year, I was pleased to find that my seventeen year old niece "had" to read a Dickens novel, David Copperfield. She seemed to be dreading it, and my telling her w..."I presume neither sister nor niece received the entire Dickens Collection as a gift for Christmas that year? ;)
Kim wrote: "At the beginning of our last school year, I was pleased to find that my seventeen year old niece "had" to read a Dickens novel, David Copperfield. She seemed to be dreading it, and my telling her w..."We get a lot of the movie-watching, as well. This works pretty well for them--as long as the movie doesn't deviate from the plot too much. However, some do. I have to admit to getting some satisfaction from being able to deduct points for answers that match the movie and not the book. We fight such a battle to avoid having students finish our classes with an A when they haven't cracked a book! It's so much easier for them to do with all this information at their fingertips. We have to be constantly evolving our lesson plans to combat the cheating.
Mod
But we hardly read any good books in English lessons any more - they now are far and few between. You can now even study English at a German university without ever doing anything related to Shakespeare.
Mod
I normally always buy books as presents for adult people. My wife then tells me I should make sure first that the person was interested in reading at all and in the book in particular. And I then tell her
Tristram wrote: "I make use of reading logs (and would also accept reading blogs) in order to make students really read a book. Of course, it's not 100% sure they read the real book instead of watching the movie bu..."That's a great idea--the reading journal. We'd have to do it electronically to cut down on the massive copying that would take place. We do reading checks--pop quizzes that cover the material from a selected chapter and that includes a few questions that aren't covered by Sparknotes.
We gave them a journal question once about cheating, and a frightening number of them believe that copying, as long as it's not a test or quiz, is not cheating!
Tristram wrote: "My wife then tells me I should make sure first that the person was interested in reading at all and in the book in particular. And I then tell her that I don't care ... that a book is the best present you can make a sensible human being ..."I reposted a picture on Facebook that I heartily agree with. It was a sign outside of a bookstore and it read: "If they don't want books for Christmas, do they really deserve any gifts at all?" I would have to say no, they do not!
Something I wanted to note for the group.I finally found a bio of Dickens that I think I will like. It is written by Jane Smiley. I've only gotten as far as the Introduction and from that it appears she is less interested in "cataloguing" the life, but more interested in the works themselves and how they "intersected" with the life lived.
This is what I was looking for. I believe Smiley is a novelist herself, and she has somewhat of a Dickensian name, too. :)
Mod
I finally found a bio of Dickens that I think I will like. It is written by Jane Smiley. I've only gotten as far as the Introduction and from that it appe..."
Glad you found a bio you feel comfortable in reading. Another bio that works on the intersecting principle you mention is Edgar Johnson's Charles Dickens: His Tragedy and TriumphIt could be seen as a bit dated as it was written ~65 years ago but I really enjoyed it.
Yes. The name Smiley is rather Dickensian. While her novel "1000 Acres" is perhaps her best known book if you have some extra time (but with OMF that may be enough) may I suggest her novel Moo Wonderfully satirical.
Mod
I really like that saying about people who want no books for Christmas not deserving any gifts at all. There is a lot of truth in it.
Mod
I finally found a bio of Dickens that I think I will like. It is written by Jane Smiley. I've only gotten as far as the Introduction and from that it appe..."
John,
That's a good recommendation because like you I am more interested in biographies that deal with the work rather than just the life of an artist. I especially like Searching for John Ford as an example of how it should be done; I like reading books on directors, you know, and always look for books covering the films.
As to Dickens, the novelist Gissing also wrote a biography on Dickens, and I think it focuses a lot on the novels.
Tristram wrote: "John wrote: "Something I wanted to note for the group.I finally found a bio of Dickens that I think I will like. It is written by Jane Smiley. I've only gotten as far as the Introduction and from..."
Tristam, I actually downloaded Gissing's book to my Nook. The only problem, sometimes, with the old digital downloads that are available for free -- they have words/characters out of place and sometimes a hodgepodge. I'm going to take another look at it though.
Linda wrote: "Dear Curiosities,I'm popping in to let you know that I'm not starting our read of OMF off on a good foot! I attempted to start reading it last weekend, but found I could not concentrate on it. An..."
Linda - sounds like you and I are leading parallel lives right now. I'm sorry to hear about Maggie. At 19, she had good innings, but I know what a hole there is in your heart, as well as in your day-to-day activities.
I, too, am behind. I've got a herniated disk causing nerve problems in my left arm, and have been out of work (and a paycheck!) for several weeks. "More time to read!" many friends say with envy. But unfortunately my weakened arm makes me unable to hold books up so that I'm not lowering my head, which makes reading a challenge. Audio books help, but I fall asleep (probably because I can't sleep at night!).
In the "misery loves company" category, we were out of state for a family wedding this weekend, and my daughter, while driving my car, got sideswiped by a tractor trailer. Thankfully, she's okay, but the car was totaled. We rented a car to get home, only to find that our dog, Lily, had taken a turn while we were en route, and had to be euthanized the night we returned. I have a lot of guilt, knowing that our absence caused her stress that probably accelerated her condition. It's the first time we haven't had a pet in our home for 31 years, and it's devastating. Even moreso because she spent her last couple of days without her family.
Without work, a car, or my dog, and not even the capability to read comfortably, I have no structure in my life. We haven't gotten more pets with the plan that when Lily died, we'd finally book a trip to England for several weeks. But with the disk/nerve problem, I won't be flying any time soon, so that dream is shot for the time being.
So that's me, having a bit of a pity party. Waaaaaah! I should be ashamed, knowing I still have it better than so many people in this world. The good news is that physical therapy seems to be helping my condition (hopefully no surgery!). And I am incredibly thankful that my daughter came out of the accident unscathed, and that my other daughter's current pregnancy is still going well at 26 weeks. I hope my arm will be strong enough to hold my granddaughter come September! So it's not all bad news. I'm feeling comparatively good today, and am using the time to do some catching up with all of you, and meeting some friends for lunch this afternoon. I'm still behind in my reading, but at least I'm back at it!
On to chapter 7!
Mod
Tristram wrote: "a less sensible human being can still use them as doorstops or to drive the donkeys out of their garden. "Kim - the story of your niece and her mom is so very sad.
Tristram - Like me, do you find yourself making Dickens references (like chasing donkeys out of the garden) and being met with blank stares? That's why I treasure this group. It's so nice to know I'm not alone.
(On an only slightly related note - my physical therapist has me getting traction, and I commented that I felt like Barney Fife, hanging in the closet. Nothing. Whole generations out there that don't get Dickens or Andy Griffith Show references. What's the world coming to??)
Cindy - I like your maxim about books and gifts! I would go a step further (or, perhaps, a step too far) and say, "If they don't want books I like for Christmas, do they really deserve any gifts at all?" :-)
Mod
I'm popping in to let you know that I'm not starting our read of OMF off on a good foot! I attempted to start reading it last weekend, but found I could not concent..."
Mary Lou
I am very sorry to read about your health issues, being without a pay check as a result, your daughter's brush with a tractor trailer and the loss of your dog Lily. That is too much for anyone to endure all at once. Please accept my best thoughts and wishes and a virtual hug.
You still make me smile so there is a gift and a strength you have in abundance. How can anyone be fully educated without a deep knowledge of both Dickens and Barney Fife? Who would not want a haircut from Floyd the barber?
Out here in Victoria we can get a US television station that plays all the old shows. Tristram could see Gunsmoke, Rawhide, The Rifleman and Rawhide. Colombo, Perry Mason and Wonder Woman keep the world safe and the Love Boat sails every weekend. Who could not stay up to 10:00 pm at least once a week to watch Hogan's Heroes?
Be kind and good to yourself.
Mod
Oh, I do sympathize. I had a herniated disk a year and a half ago which has caused some long-term, and possibly permanent, nerve damage in my leg. Very nasty stuff. I hope you recover 100% usage of your arm. Good luck.
Mod
I'm popping in to let you know that I'm not starting our read of OMF off on a good foot! I attempted to start reading it last weekend, but found I ..."
Gunsmoke, Rawhide and The Rifleman, maybe also Josh - I would like to watch these shows. Okay, most of all Gunsmoke! In Germany, the last nine seasons are on DVD - and I have got them, of course - but what about the previous seasons? Most of them have actually never been shown on German TV.
Mod
(On an only slightly related note - my physical therapist has me getting traction, and I commented that I felt like Barney Fife, hanging in the closet. Nothing. Whole generations out there that don't get Dickens or Andy Griffith Show references. What's the world coming to??)"
Yes, that's one of the several reasons to love this group :-) I also like to make "The Big Lebowski" or "Seinfeld" or "Simpsons" references. Even my wife now sometimes uses Seinfeld or Simpsons references, like when I once asked what we should have for dinner and she said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1h8c...
Mod
I'm popping in to let you know that I'm not starting our read of OMF off on a good foot! I attempted to start reading it last weekend, but found I could not concent..."
Oh my, Mary Lou! I will be praying for you. I was just sitting here feeling sorry for myself (a little) because the pain in my neck is so awful the last few weeks that I now find it hard to sleep. I called the doctor for a pain management injection, but that won't be until Wednesday, and I see my neurologist on Tuesday to have those lovely, each visit is the same, appointments, where we once again talk about my seizures, my headaches, and my medicine. I get the feeling we wouldn't have had to see each other more than once every 2 or 3 years, nothing ever seems to change anyway. But you, my girl, have made me see once again how wonderful life can be, at times that is. The rest of the time I just wait for the wonder again. Besides, it's never longer than 365 days until Christmas, that's what I used to tell myself when I would spend weeks in the hospital as a little girl, it cheered me up. :-)
As to your Barney hanging in the closet, I knew just what you meant. :-)
Mod
This is today's conversation - if texting is considered conversation - between me and my sister. She begins,
Hey, do you know who Agatha Christie is?
Me: yes.
her: The one who writes books?
Me. yes.
her: did you ever read one?
Me. Yes
Her: more than one?
Me. yes
Her: Which one is the shortest?
Me. I don't know right now, we're not home yet (from camping), I'll look when I get there.
Her: If you can't find a really, really, short one pick a pretty good one. Do you have a favorite?
Me. yes
Her. what is it?
Me. And Then There Were None
Her. How long is it?
Me. I can't remember
Her. I'll have her (meaning her daughter) call you.
From all this interest in Agatha Christie and her books, which I'm pretty sure my sister never heard of before, I am assuming my niece has another author who's book she's supposed to be reading for some class or another. I haven't got that call yet though. Maybe I should try to find one that there isn't a movie version out there.
Kim wrote: " I was just sitting here feeling sorry for myself ..." It's so easy to do, isn't it, Kim? Thank you for your prayers. Rest assured, I lift you up in mine as well. As bad as things sometimes get, they can always be worse, and I try to count my blessings. Sometimes, though, a person just needs a good wallow. In those moments, I find it's best to get on with it, and get it out of my system!
Somehow I thought that of all the Curiosities, you'd be one who would get my Barney Fife reference. ;-)
As to your sister and your niece, I'm appalled that any English speaking person on the planet doesn't know who Agatha Christie is. How is it that the two of you are from the same gene pool?
Mod
I'm just shaking my head at the thought that somebody who presumably knows you doesn't know that you know that Agatha Christie would be an author. Obviously she doesn't read, but does she think that you don't?
Mod
I got it! I got it! I can even still whistle the show's tune. Matter of fact, I'm whistling it as I type.
Good old Mayberry.
Just a brief comment. I am reading concurrent with OMF, George Gissing's Critical Study of Dickens.Although written about 30 years after Dickens passed away, it reads very much like a modernist study. I was expecting something more "Victorian." Quite enjoyable and good side by side to OMF.
Available for free download at Barnes and Noble, and likely also available for free at Gutenberg. I went with a $2 edition.
John wrote: "Available for free download at Barnes and Noble, and likely also available for free at Gutenberg. I went with a $2 edition."Hi, John. FYI, I've found that the free downloads from B&N often don't transfer well. There's probably a technical term for it -- letters of the alphabet often get translated as numbers and symbols. I don't know why. When I've paid for a cheap addition it doesn't happen, so the cynic in me assumes that it's a ploy for B&N to sell more books. After trying to slog through a few novels in this pseudo-Cyrillic alphabet, I stopped using B&N for public domain classics. I've never had that problem with Gutenberg. I give them a donations that probably cost more than the cheap B&N Nook copies would, so I'm not saving any money, but I'd rather Gutenberg had it so they can continue to bring these classics to the masses free of charge.
Mary Lou wrote: "John wrote: "Available for free download at Barnes and Noble, and likely also available for free at Gutenberg. I went with a $2 edition."Hi, John. FYI, I've found that the free downloads from B&N..."
Mary Lou, yes, I have found some of the same problems. I actually had the free Gissing book, but the letters were clumped together in spots, as you point out, and thus I went with the $2 edition that did not have these problems.
I have to do a little more exploring at Gutenberg.
Mod
I also. While many are available free from Amazon, I think often Amazon is ripping off Gutenberg's work, just copying their editions, to attract customers to its site, so always skip Amazon and go direct to Gutenberg. And yes, those of us who use and love it need to support it, or it will be gone and we will be much poorer for it.
Mod
However, I do find it at archive.com, my second source. The works they have which they try to OCR are usually terrible, but this is a photocopy (or whatever the term is when it's on the Internet) of the actual book, so completely readable, and any textual errors are from the original, not added by the OCR process.
https://archive.org/details/charlesdi...
And you can even search within the text and jump to the locations where the search item is found; though the search process isn't perfect, it's generally pretty good.
The one thing you can't do is cut and paste.
Mod
I'm just shaking my head at the thought that somebody who presumably knows you doesn..."
Now that you have me thinking of that, I find that many of her conversations, especially having anything to do with reading or even touching a book begin like that. I can think of other conversations that started almost the same way and I never gave it a thought;
Do you know who Dan Brown is?
yes
The one who likes books?
yes
Did you read his books?
And for that one she got a no and the conversation drifted away from Mr. Brown. But I find she also begins other conversations in the same way.
Do you know Betty Hoover?
Yes.
It is her next door neighbor and that's why I know her, and yet the conversation begins the same way. Right now I can't think of a single thing we have in common, except being sisters, same parents, things like that.
Mod
Too easy, Kim, way too easy. When you have developed the art of civilized malice to the degree that I have arrived at, inspired by my sister, among others, you will choose a Christie novel that was made into a film, but whose film adaptation differs starkly from the book - so that the teacher will realize that your niece has simply watched the film instead of reading the book. ;-)
The Old Curiosity Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (other topics)Charles Dickens and the Great Theatre of the World (other topics)
Searching for John Ford (other topics)
Charles Dickens: His Tragedy and Triumph (other topics)
Moo (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Jane Smiley (other topics)Simon Callow (other topics)
Well, I never thought I would read that. I'm finally making progress. :-)