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Lance
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Jun 21, 2014 05:44AM
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I must be hallucinating when I look at the NL EAST standings. They ALL have a shot! A key pickup and a little health, will be the differenceMike Linn
Lance wrote: "It was bad timing for Buck...any one of us here could have managed those Yankees teams to a title. Not a knock on Torre as he was the right man for that team, but really with THAT amount of talent..."So, did Buck get fired just because Seattle beat him in `95, or do we blame George. I just am sure there are a few things we don`t know
Mike Linn
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Buck seems to be the type of guy to speak his mind. He probably told George something he didn't want to hear.
Steinbrenner would always tell a subordinate that he betrayed him and stabbed him in the back. When Buck stood up to him, and said that EVERY move was George`s, and that final blame was always his, the Boss always fired the disloyal peon.Mike Linn
Remember he didn't even like Torre because he felt he was getting too much credit for them winning.
Classic Danny Ozark quote. Even Napoleon had his watergate .
I'm curious how much imput the manager has when a team is being put together. I know Martin and Weaver used to be very involved. When Lance said Torre was the right man for the job I started thinking was he or just the right man in the right place at the right time.joe had a ready made winner which added Tino Martinez for him.
Hey Mike what's your opinion of Walter Smokey Alston as a manager?
I guess we`ll never really know now, but after meetings to go over who would help them, no matter who makes a suggestion, in the end, George would ALWAYS take credit if it worked, and always blamed, if it didn`t Mike Linn
When the Dodgers promoted Alston after dumbass Dressen and his wife were let go, Alston`s record coincided with some pretty good teams until Koufax retired. So did great pitching make him a great manager, or would they have succeeded with someone else? I think maybe a little bit of both. I know Alston was a no nonsense quiet man. I`d like to think he was a good or better manager, but with those awesome Dodger rosters, I`m not 100% sure. He`s in the Hall, so I guess he was greatMike Linn
I liked the O'Malleys giving him one year deals for 23 years and being smart enough not to blame him when the team went bad in 58 and again in the late 60s. They knew it would take a few years to build up again.
If you look at the `56 team, and the eventual turnover to the team in `59, there`s a ton of huge changes. Gone are Jackie, Roy, Newk, and the gradual deteriation of Furillo, Hodges, and my Duke. The pitching staff turned over almost completely to Sandy, Don, Johnny,et al, and the team went from a powerhouse, to switch-hitting speed demons. Those turnovers take a couple. When Alston won in `55 and was still competitive all the way to L.A with only `58 as a down year after Roy`s accident, and Pee Wee`s fading, O'Malley was smart to see the good in his manager. Good old Mrs. Dressen got her husband fired demanding that multi-year contract for ChuckyMike Linn
Walt matched the image that the dodgers wanted at that time for a manager. He was quiet, treated his players with dignity,and didn't over manage.
When Durocher went to O'Malleys after the 62 playoff telling him Alston blew the pennant, which he might have, I was always impressed that they got rid of Leo and kept the company man.
Good morning! Gotta say, I love reading your posts about the history of my team. I really do learn a lot from you fellows. Anyway, Harold, that Cuban ss you referred to is still waiting for his reattached ear to heal.
Mike L, its been awhile since I read Billy Martins' books, and I also saw a documentary about him (that I saved in my DVR and will watch again). Do you really think he was counterproductive? Or are you just trying to stir the pot?
Basically, I was asking a question, but one does have to grasp that while he seemed to improve teams initially wherever he went, punching out your ace pitcher, and creating a zoo in the Bronx, could be construed as counterproductive, don`t you think?And your team, dear Lisa, was mine first
Mike Linn
P.S. And, if you`re going to make stew, you have to stir it a little, right?
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Being me, I don't remember how many teams or which ones, but in at least a few cases, didn't he take last place teams to second place, and many teams to pennant winning seasons?
He was fired 5 times by George alone. I don't think the players liked his style but many were literally afraid of him physically. he had grown up a fighter and knew how to box
According to the documentary, those who started out hating him ended up loving him. They said so themselves. And from what I know about George Steinbrenner, GS fired a secretary for bringing him the wrong sandwich. ... It seems as though Martin got fired more for his belligerent personality then his skill as a manager. Players said that he caused them to up their game to a different level and give them more motivation. In my mind, that is the main cornerstone to being an effective manager.
Yes but it was fear that motivated them. Regardless, if it worked, that's what counts. It's not about popularity if you win.I can't argue your point but I would say that in hindsight the players ended up loving him-meaning after 20 years of hindsight. he did have their backs-that's for sure
For me, all the good that Martin did on a baseball field diminished every time he walked into a place and started drinking. EVERY outburst was alcohol relatedMike Linn
Like the Dave Boswell brawl in Detroit?
Or with a marshmallow guy, or at Lace, or at the Copa,or with Jimmy Piersall, Clint Courtney, Bert Campaneris,or with Jim Brewer. Yeah, and Boswell too.Mike Linn
Who was the Yankee pitcher that broke Martin`s arm?Mike Linn
Gee, it could have happened at a bar!
I was thinking Jim Brewer. Didn't he break his jaw? hew wore glasses and was cerebral
No, much later. Martin broke Brewer`s jaw in 1960 when Martin was a Red , and Brewer was a rookie with the Cubs. I got it, Ed WhitsonMike Linn
Add it to my list
Brewer sued Martin over that. I really believe Martin was a great manager, but like like Mike Linn said once he took a drink he became his own worst enemy. Lance you forgot the 72 over the hill tigers. Martin took that team to a division title and like our current Phillies, Tigers management refused to part with these aging players who won the World Series 4 years prior. Over the winter and into the next season Martin begged them to start dealing these players they didn't, the team went bad and Martin was fired. As good a manager as he was, he might have been better off as a GM.
