The Baseball Book Club discussion
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If you had a time machine
Your right about Stengel. Because DiMaggio didn't want to look bad he wouldn't call for the ball until he was sure he'd catch it. So he called at the last second and Mantle pulled up and wrenched his knee.
That's what I recall reading in Joe's Bio by Ben Cramer
It should have happened to Joe, he was washed up anyhowMike Linn
There's an interview with Mantle where he said if played in Atlanta he'd have hit 800 homers. I think saying 600 is pretty conservative. He was on 64 shy when he quit. Might have made a run at seven
How about Junior? Injury free,700 easy, 800 ?Mike Linn
Yeh, that was too bad. I'd rather see him with the record. When you think about it there were a lot of guys who just missed milestones due too some injury. Frank Robinson and Harmon Killebrew each had two seasons where they got hurt and it cost both of them 600 homers.
Mantle still abused himself with booze and running around. That contributed to his shortened career so unless he behaved differently 700 is a stretch.As for missed opportunities, don't forget the guys who served in some capacity and lost plenty of time that would have given them much greater records like Greenberg, Williams, Joe D, Musial and others
And Bob Feller in his prime probably would have won 340 plus gamesMike Linn
Cecil Travis missed 4 years and got frostbite on his toes. Was never the same player that was on the way to the HOF.
Embarrassed to admit I never heard of him
Shortstop for the Senators. Had 1370 hits before his 28th birthday. .314 lifetime average, his .359 in 1941 I think was second to Williams.
Prior to WWII, he hit .300 in 7 out of his 8 full seasons, and was in the .320`s for lifetime average, but like Mike said was never the same after the war. He looked like a HOFer before.Mike Linn
Mod
Oliva was a monster hitter, ask Jim Palmer. Cepeda was another wrecked by injury towards the endMike Linn
He also would have scored and driven in 2000 runs
To me, Ted`s total numbers would have been off the charts, nobody is asking Ted Who, right?Mike Linn
Cecil Travis lost 4 years and had been on pace for 3000 hits.
I know Musial only missed 1945 but it was an entire season. With that extra year he would have likely ended up 3rd all-time in hits. Aaron is third with 3,771 so Stan would have only needed 142 to beat him.Also he would have ended up ahead of Barry Bonds in RBI's and would have been 4th all time
1. Hank Aaron+ (23) 2297 R
2. Babe Ruth+ (22) 2214 L
3. Cap Anson+ (27) 2075 R
4. Barry Bonds (22) 1996 L
5. Lou Gehrig+ (17) 1995 L
6. Alex Rodriguez (20, 38) 1969 R
7. Stan Musial+ (22) 1951
Likely would have been 2nd all-time in doubles
1. Tris Speaker+ (22) 792 L
2. Pete Rose (24) 746 B
3. Stan Musial+ (22) 725
Mike, he got frostbite on his toes during the war. This caused him to be ineffective when he came back. I'm looking at his career lasting longer. He missed playing ages 28-31. Even if he got 170 hits a season that would put him at 2200 by age 32. If he lasted till 37 he'd only need 150 hits per year average. The year before he entered the service he hit .359 with 218 hits. A couple more seasons like that and he'd get 3000 by age 36.
I think if we just give Travis just what he was doing when healthy, conservatively he would have had a shot at 3000 hits. After 1941, when Travis was 27, he had 1370 hits. He had played 8 full seasons to get to that point. If there was no interruption, and we just take into consideration the normal age fall-off,in the next 10 or 11 years of his career, he would have needed 1630 more hits. Not impossible,but it could have been closeMike Linn
Anyone want to project Ted Williams`s numbers?
I always thought since he was just entering his prime years that he would have been good for 40 homers a year from 1943-45 plus another 60 between 52-53. So that's 180 which would put him at 701 which would have meant that he would have played in 61 to break Ruth's record. That would have been amazing if Ruth's single season and lifetime record fell in the same season.
That's an interesting thought and would make a great novel.What if Ted Williams was exempted by Roosevelt because of his importance to the game? What if he had played those prime years?
I did the same numbers a few years back when I read a bio and came up with pretty much the same calculations.
Yes that would have been an even bigger media frenzy with Williams chasing 715 and Maris and mantle chasing 61. Maybe Maris would have felt less pressure because he was sharing the spotlight with Ted.
Now we need someone to write it Mike Linn.
Then there`s hits, walks, runs scored, doubles, RBI, and don't forget, Williams lifetime average at that point was in the .350`s. To me, the sky was the limitMike Linn
Harold wrote: "That's an interesting thought and would make a great novel.What if Ted Williams was exempted by Roosevelt because of his importance to the game? What if he had played those prime years?
I did t..."
I hope I can get to it, maybe Ben Bradlee is free
Mike Linn
I am afraid my first choice is neither an historic game, nor one that most of you would find at all interesting. For me it would be the first opening day for the Toronto Blue Jays (the one played in the snow).
Yeah John-you're right. I'd skip that one on the way back to 1951
Mod
Actually that one would be cool to attend. Since I already used both my first and second round choices,can I tag along with you John?
Speaking of Cecil Travis, I just came across this gem:Polanco became the only player in the modern era to have five hits and a home run in one of his first four MLB games, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. Mike Lansing was the previous fastest to reach the feat, in his fifth game in 1993.
While it took Polanco only four games to turn in a five-hit performance, he wasn't the fastest rookie to reach the milestone. According to Elias, Cecil Travis of the Washington Senators accomplished the feat in his big league debut. On May 16, 1933, the third baseman went 5-for-7 in an 11-10, 12-inning win over the Indians at Griffith Stadium.
I still think that Travis, if not for the war and of course the frostbite, was HOF material at that pointMike Linn
Too few years at that point, he would have had to extendMike Linn
You don't here much about Tony Conigliaro anymore but he was another guy who looked like he was going to hit 500 homers since he had 100 by age 22.
Very courageous guy who made the Comeback.I just looked up his numbers after I made a comment and saw that he was Comeback Player of the Year. He died very young after being in a coma for 8 years at the age of 45 Very sad story
Conigliaro, in my opinion surely was headed in that direction. After sitting out all of 1968 after the beaning by Jack Hamilton, Tony responded with a 20, and a 36 homer season, but Boston knew the eye was damaged and pretty much dumped him to the Angels. Sadly, he died at 45Mike Linn
Happy father`s day to all.....
My same sentiments to all the guys as well for a Happy father's day
Mod
Really an excellent choice for both of the reasons Lance. It would have been so dramatic to see another .400 chase like Brett and Carew
Wasn`t `94 also the year that Matt Williams had 40 plus homers in the beginning of August?Mike Linn
Mike, have you ever looked at the stats of players from 94. The numbers are off the chart
You know, you`re right. Kind of like the aberration that 1930 seemed to beMike Linn
Yeh, i was glad you mentioned 94 because it would make a great book, even though it could end up as the real peak of PEDS.
`94 also wound up killing the Expos. Are we sure no one has written that? I certainly would read it.Mike Linn
There's a new book out on the expos called Up, Up, and Away. It says it's the definitive history of the Expos.
On my to order list, thanksMike Linn
Mod
Mike Linn