QP: Part Three: Ch 6: London: The Nettle and the Venom

[Renee]

QP: Part Three: Ch 6: London: The Nettle and the Venom

[SamuraiKitty]

I'm not sure if this qualifies as a spoiler, but I'm going to put it under the spoiler tag anyways, and I'd love to know what y'all think!

(view spoiler)[ There is always this tension between Matthew Lennox and Lymond - and I get it - Lymond was Margaret Lennox's adolescent lover back in the day. But ... there also seems to always be this insinuation about the Lennox's child/children, and it seems that Lymond always goads Matthew into thinking that one of their children was actually fathered by Lymond. It started in "The Game of Kings", and it plays throughout the story. Am I crazy? Am I the only one who reads into that inference - because it makes me wonder if the child really is Lymond's? Or if Dunnett is being Dunnett, or if Lymond is just tweaking Matthew's nose because he knows how sensitive Matthew is on the subject of the previous affair between Margaret and Lymond, and being Lymond, he can't resist being malicious about it. I'd love to know what anyone else thinks. (hide spoiler)]

And ... "The heralds's gaze turned to Lady Lennox, who, O'LiamRoe could not know, saw none of these things; saw an untouched boy's face of eight years before, (view spoiler)[( Margaret Lennox has so much to answer for!) (hide spoiler)] and another, more recent, with the new hammer-shapes of leadership plainly on it. And now here was a face she had never quite seen..."

[Giki]

in the first book where Lymond refers to being 'brought up in bad company. From oar to oar, you might say.' (whore to oar??)and lennox goes nuts - very funny
Other than winding up Lennox, Lymond keeps his thoughts on that relationship to himself. He was very young and she is especially manipulative and nasty, I imagine it would not have been an altogether pleasant experience.
spoiler for later books
(view spoiler)[ the child of hers that matters really is Darnley - and he turns out a nasty piece of work in the end (not so much in the book as in real life). I don't see him as Lymond's offspring but then there is that nature vs nurture theme going on in later books, he was born 7th dec 1545 (from Wikipedia), I am a bit sketchy on the timeline of TGOK so not sure if the dates match up. Interesting Idea though. (hide spoiler)]

[SamuraiKitty]

Hi Giki -
(view spoiler)[ Yea, I think Lymond just loves to piss Matthew off and make him wonder; because clearly Lymond was not the first nor the last man Margaret gave her favors too for whatever reason. Again my sense is that it's nothing (ie - neither child is Lymond's) but I do think it's interesting that it crops up in more than one book. And yes, Lymond never says anything outright about the relationship, but he does make some very veiled comments regarding Margaret. Oh and I always though that "oar to oar" comment was a veiled from whore to whore -
but your take also makes sense. (Actually more) (hide spoiler)]

[Giki]

Margaret Lennox is so wonderfully nasty in this chapter! I had missed that whole 'paternity question' thing between Matthew and Francis the first time round that SK pointed out.

[Mary]

SamuraiKitty wrote: "Oh and I always though that "oar to oar" comment was a veiled from whore to whore -"

My take was a little different... from "whore", Margaret Lennox, to "oar", referring to his time rowing on the French galleys.

[SamuraiKitty]

Hi Mary - Giki also commented on that - "oar to whore" and that definitely makes more sense!

[Rose]

SamuraiKitty wrote: "I'm not sure if this qualifies as a spoiler, but I'm going to put it under the spoiler tag anyways, and I'd love to know what y'all think!

[spoilers removed]

And ... "The heralds's gaze turned to..."

Got to love DD - she keeps us guessing with hints within hints! I have thought that this is just Lymond being bitchy to Matthew, as the influence of the fictional Lymond fathering a real Douglas is perhaps just too far a stretch.

[SamuraiKitty]

Hi Rose - I agree ( I really do!) - but I think it's interesting that Dunnett puts the question out there ( a red herring?) - and the fact that throughout the series - it is one of the things that Lymond and Mathew Lennox always have tension about. And I still hate Margaret Lennox - for so many reasons. Matthew was just F-ing clueless - or didn't care as long as his interests weren't squashed. In GOK at the end of the book - he was made to see what his wife was - and he knew it - it was why he married her - because he says nothing in her defense (or actually very little)- which to me is very telling. But that's just my opinion. :)

[Ah]

But also, the way DD writes it, Lymond isn't her only lover. So even if he's definitely not Darnley's father (e.g. the timing is wrong), potentially someone else other than Matthew Lennox is, so the digs would hurt just as much!