The Just City - Chapters 16-30 (April 2017)

[Marc]

This thread is for discussing chapters 16-30.

How did you feel about the way the character were paired with one another?

Can there ever be a "just" form of eugenics?

[Peter]

It only makes sense if you don't know anything about how human beings work. Plato was never married, and apparently didn't spend any time around children, either.

A just form of eugenics could only rely on education and persuasion. But it also runs afoul of difficulty of defining "superior" or "inferior" -- people come in complete, complex packages that contain many many traits, and traits themselves can be good or bad depending on the situation. And while nature is important, so is nurture.

[Marc]

I'm glad you brought up Plato's limited personal experience with things like marriage and parenting! Seems like the individual always came second to the group--a dynamic more suited to ant or bee colonies than humans, perhaps...

It's fascinating how many of these issues we're still debating today: What is the best form of education? What are the ethics and scientific limitations of tampering with DNA? Who is allowed to marry? What or who makes an ideal leader?

[Sarah]

Peter wrote: "It only makes sense if you don't know anything about how human beings work. Plato was never married, and apparently didn't spend any time around children, either.

A just form of eugenics could onl..."

I agree, nurture is very important. New research continually points to this in many areas. Even if the genetics are controlled in Just City, the first three years of development are not ideal. Raising children without a consistent/biological parent figure from birth is not a good idea!

[Marc]

Not having read The Republic yet, and not having paid careful enough attention when reading this book, I'm still asking, did Plato see no role for Eros in his Just City? Is Eros more than mere desire?

The ancient Greeks with whom I seanced last night confirmed Wikipedia's take that there were four types of love: eros, storge, philia, and agape. Walton seems to juxtapose eros and agape in this book with agape being the ideal.