Beta Reader Group discussion
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Trigger Words
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David wrote: "A big one is past tense. Only terms such as "had been" when it applies a past event. Rewrite the section and make it present tense (e.g., "is")...."I don't get that one. Yes, I understand that there is a time to use perfect tense, so as not to overuse it, but if my whole story is in the past, I may want to verify if 'had been' could be replaced by 'was' but I would certainly not replace it by 'is'.
Can you give an example?
David wrote: ""That" is used far often than necessary. You can typically remove it without affecting the flow of your story. There may be times when you have a choice between "that" and "which." In these situations, always include a comma before "which."..."
There is a distinction between that and which. If the following clause can be removed without changing the meaning, you should use which, if it changes it, use that.
Ex: I read the book that is on this table. (You can't remove it or it would mean something else.
I read the book. (Oh yeah? Which one?)
At night, I always read a book, which I keep on a table by my side.
In this one you could easily stop the sentence with book.
Of course you could also say 'At night, I always read THE book (that) I keep on a table by my side.
Two different meanings.
Now to answer your question: dangling participles.
Make sure it modifies the right noun. I have seen way too many sentences that made no sense. One might make me laugh but add a few too many and I will stop reading.
Ex: Walking down the street, the sun burns my skin.
(Sorry, but the sun doesn't walk down the street.)
Waking up to a strange sound, my skin crawled.
(Oh yeah? Meet the skin of the future: it sleeps and hears.)
Another of my pet peeves: AS
As seen in a book read a long time ago: As I cross the bridge I look behind me as it rises.
That makes for a very dangerous situation. Remember that you rarely do two things simultaneously. Most of the time you do things one after the other.
Same with participle clauses: Opening the fridge, I pour myself a drink.
Are you pouring yourself a glass of whatever and opening the fridge with your other hand? Because you can't possibly be pouring yourself a drink from something out of the fridge if you are in the process of opening it.
Third: Alternate your sentences. Don't start them all the same way. Too many of anything, even a good thing, can be too much.
I've heard that "-ing" verbs are a big one. You have to be careful not to use too many.
All of these are helpful. Let's keep the discussion going.
I have heard that there is a 'quota' for exclamation points. And that it is very low. No idea of the truth, though.
Editor's perspective here. Yes to a lot of the comments on here: exclamation points, ing words, inaccurate modifiers. I'm not hugely wound up about that and similar words, they're pretty easy to delete.
However, distinctive repetitive words are a personal turn-off, eg obsidian eyes all over the place. I think D H Lawrence was keen on inchoate, which he could probably get away with but I wouldn't recommend too much use of it in today's styles of writing.
Also, repeating words and phrases too close together, consecutive pars or the next but one.
My main gripe is starting sentences with subordinate clauses. Eg:
Rushing out of the door, Johnny tripped and fell.
Waiting for the bus, he spotted a golden eagle hovering over the fields.
Arriving at school, he excitedly told his friends about the huge bird.
Not only have we got three sentences in succession with the same (weak) construction, we've got hovering as well in one, and the adverb excitedly in the next.
Certainly use this as a sentence construction very sparingly. Don't start consecutive pars like this, and def no more than one in a paragraph.
I'm not a fan of pretentious dialogue tags, especially when combined with an adverb. The dialogue and any beats should be the emphasis not 'he condescendingly remarked'. But some people like writing like this. Each to our own.
Isn't fiction normally written in the past tense? Why the heck would you ever use "is" in a story that is using "had been"? This makes no sense to me.Also, as someone pointed out, "that" and "which" have different usage, and both can be very important to flow.
Not that rare today to find novels set in present tense; probably the most famous I can think of off the top my head is "The Hunger Games." The idea behind using present tense is to lend a sense of suspense and immediacy to the story - think of the breathless, life and death pace in "The Hunger Games."
David wrote: "We all want our stories to get published, which is why we are part of this group. Comments I've received in rejection notes from editors, and tips from other beta readers, indicate editors have "tr..."David wrote: "We all want our stories to get published, which is why we are part of this group. Comments I've received in rejection notes from editors, and tips from other beta readers, indicate editors have "tr..."
Oh well, I don't quite get how to repy to posts but, here goes:
Then and Than. The over usage is all to apparent. The worst however is the MIS-USAGE. We all need use proper grammar. Stating the obvious: these words are not interchangeable. Then is a time, than is a comparative. If I need an English lesson please say so, but that's the way I see and so does Mr. Webster.
Another overly used word is "just" as in "Just as the sun was rising...."
J.R. wrote: "Not that rare today to find novels set in present tense; probably the most famous I can think of off the top my head is "The Hunger Games." The idea behind using present tense is to lend a sense of..."Maybe it's just me, but I find present tense off-putting and distracting, unless the narrator is pointing out a detail about the story, or her opinion of some character's action. Otherwise, as I read those types of stories, I can't help but wonder how the narrator is writing the story at the same time as it unfolds. For that reason, I have a harder time engaging with a story written in present tense.
That said, I did like the Hunger Games... maybe Collins went about it subtly enough that I didn't notice the tense as much.
A beta reader once pointed out that I used "indeed" occasionally in my story. Once I realized I was doing it, I agreed that it wasn't a very good approach. Now, I only use that word if it's applied in dialog. (In fact, I think even "trigger words" can be used in dialog, since in conversation, anything can and often does apply, as long as it sounds conversational.)
"There is" and "there are" are also unnecessary, exception: "There is my brother" and "there are the apples."
Trigger words are words or phrases that cause an editor to stop reading and file a story in the trash.
I want to create a list of those words, phrases and other errors to share so we can all learn from each other's experiences.
A big one is past tense. Only terms such as "had been" when it applies a past event. Rewrite the section and make it present tense (e.g., "is").
One trigger word to remove is "then" when used to describe a sequence of events. For example, "then they decided to live happily after." Decide if anything is needed. If so, use something else such as, "and they decided to live happily after."
"That" is used far often than necessary. You can typically remove it without affecting the flow of your story. There may be times when you have a choice between "that" and "which." In these situations, always include a comma before "which."
"Begin" is another term that another beta reader mentioned, also because of sequence.
Writers, what words and phrases are you being told to avoid?
Editors, what words and phrases get you to stop reading and start ranting?
Please post your comments here or them to me directly at davereyn83@gmail.com.
Thank-you.